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2-09-2010 @ 8:03PM
I personally prefer Blizzard UI elements to addons. Not because I don't think they're useful or anything, but as an extension of the same reason I use Mac. No, not because of fanboyism, but because of consistency. If I know how one (properly-designed, anyway) Mac app works, I know how another will. I know they will look like they belong. The same goes for Blizzard's UI. It looks like a complete product, not something tacked on, and I know new UI features will behave as familiar. With very few exceptions (Baggins is the only one I use that I can think of), no addon looks like it belongs there. Many even have vastly different behaviours (all Blizzard context menus have the feature that pressing Escape will close them first, without touching anything; third-party addon context menus done). They use different fonts. They place elements randomly in the middle of the screen. There's a huge obsession with floating windows and non-integration. They add minimap buttons, but always in the same spot so it's not hard to have multiple overlapping buttons. They can lack GUIs for configuring them, and even lack documentation on how to configure them through text commands.Many people describe certain addons as offering features that Blizzard should have implemented. True. But a request to addon authors out there: at least make your product look and feel like Blizzard designed them. Please?(Note: the addons I do use include DBM, Baggins, tabDB, Clique, Skada, GSLite, and LagBar FPS)
2-09-2010 @ 8:30PM
No offense but alot of that is rediculous. Almost every addon worth using has plenty of options to change their appearence to match pretty much anything you want. Especially any addons that support Shared Media =P It seems to me that you either haven't looked into any new addons in years or you are somehow horribly misinformed because there is really no case where you should be running into Addons with no GUI for config. An LDB displayer/Fubar makes minimap buttons a joke, and there's also addons like Minimap Button Frame to pull said buttons into their own space and completely prevent overlapping (even a few of the minimap addons have automatic button positioning built in).Given the addon options available today you can put together a UI that both looks and functions far better then Blizzards ever has or most likely ever will.That said I would gladly use Blizzard's UI if they'd let us configure it. It's far too restricted (and ugly imo) for me to be comfortable playing with it. Especially the unit frame positioning... Gamers naturally focus on the center of the screen, so let's throw some of the most important information we display WAY in the top left corner.
2-09-2010 @ 8:50PM
I think you captured my entire point in your second sentence. "Plenty of options". TOO many options. I don't want to spend a couple hours configuring an addon just so it works nice, I want it to work nice when I install it. Moving various elements so that they fit together nicely and work well is not pleasant. I did not buy an addon from IKEA.Some addons I've tried in the past week:Bartender - By default it moves all 10 action bars to the centre of the screen. Though some of the bars are the same internally as the extra built-in bars, my keybindings don't show up (though they still work). The bars will dock nicely to each other to keep spacing consistent, and the dock to the sides of the screen, but these two different dockings don't work together. I can position one action bar nicely on the bottom of the screen, but then I have to manually position the second one to the right of it. I then have to manually position the chatbox so as to make good use of real estate.SpartanUI - Actually rather nice. Looks nice, behaves nice (except with the Totem Bar), very consistent. Had a command-only configuration system, no GUI, and no documentation (I guessed at /sui and it worked). Again had issues with default placement of the chat box covering up frames. I really only stopped using it because I just couldn't adjust to my frame and target being at the bottom of the screen.Various buffbars - All failed, as the super-useful Consolidate Buffs option isn't supported. I don't need to know at a glance that Blessing of Sanctuary still has 23 minutes remaining.X-Perl - This one actually surprised me with the default settings. They were set up rather nice, and though there were lots of options, it was easy to quickly change lots of things without having to fine-grain everything. Stopped using because of lack of proper support for Totem Timers, and threat display wasn't nearly as obvious as the default frames.Though if someone could direct me to an addon which just modifies the Party frames to be horizontal, moveable, and have always-on display of buffs/debuffs (like the Target frame), I would greatly appreciate it.
2-10-2010 @ 12:36AM
Bars - Dominos takes very little time to configure, though you should configure keybinds within the addon to make them visible -- I imagine Bartender is the same way, but considering you set this once and it takes maybe a minute, it's a minor inconvenience at best (toggle keybind config, mouseover the button and hit the key).Buffs - Dotimer has used consolidated buffs for a while.
2-10-2010 @ 11:00AM
>They add minimap buttons, but always in the same spot so it's not hard to have multiple overlapping buttons.<Ouch, awkward sentence construction there. :P But while I agree that the problem of overlapping minimap buttons is a real one, I'd say that there's little Addon authors can do about it on their own. How are they to know where every other Addon you have installed has its button? Maybe the fault is Blizzard's for the minimap button interface, and that's why some Addon authors have come up with ways to clean up the minimap buttons.At least there is now an integrated configuration window for addons in game, though I think the idea came before it was implemented by Blizzard. If it was, I commend them on it, and I hope they do the same thing about the Minimap buttons.
2-10-2010 @ 11:10AM
>I think you captured my entire point in your second sentence. "Plenty of options". TOO many options. I don't want to spend a couple hours configuring an addon just so it works nice, I want it to work nice when I install it. Moving various elements so that they fit together nicely and work well is not pleasant. I did not buy an addon from IKEA.<I'd use a different metaphor than Ikea, I'd put it more like many addons are like buying furniture from an unfinished furniture store. This is not a bad thing. It may not appeal to you, but sometimes I like being able to pick the colors of my furniture...or even the individual pieces of it. That is what a lot of addons ARE about, and complaining about it just doesn't make sense to me. Do you expect the maker of Bartender to know how you want your action bars? Everybody is different. Some people are different for each character. I suppose that what you want might be found in one of the Addon Packs that consolidate addons with a particular configuration, but that doesn't mean you should knock Addons for their base state. Perhaps you don't mean it that way, but I'm more trying to put up another way of seeing things than argue with what you're saying anyway.
2-10-2010 @ 11:23AM
@Hoggersbud No, I didn't quite mean that addon authors should know how I want it. I apologize if that's what I sounded like. I know there are lots of people out there, could be even the majority of addon users (who are likely a minority of players), that like all the customization and amount of detailed options. There was a time when I would've stood shoulder-to-shoulder with you in that regard. The reason I compared it to PC applications, I've used many different applications across Windows, Mac, and Linux, seen almost every alternative in any field you can think of, whether it's web browsers or word processors or application development. I've seen lots of good apps that went with the detailed-options route and many good apps with the integrated, zero-configuration route. I used to be in the detailed camp, having shifted to the zero-configuration camp in recent years for various reasons. The point I was getting with is that I've seen next-to-no addons developed with a zero-configuration style in mind.Question: where is a good source of these Addon Packs you speak of?
2-10-2010 @ 2:51PM
>No, I didn't quite mean that addon authors should know how I want it. I apologize if that's what I sounded like.Ok, so what do you mean? What do you want from addon authors? Your particular complaints were quite specific, and were more in lines of how you wanted things, and as such would require more customized options for you to be satisfied, not less. >There was a time when I would've stood shoulder-to-shoulder with you in that regard. No, I don't think you would have, because if nothing else, we'd have totally different preferences. I can tell from your criticisms of particular addons that we do not share a similar philosophy at all when it comes to our desired UI. >I've seen lots of good apps that went with the detailed-options route and many good apps with the integrated, zero-configuration route. I used to be in the detailed camp, having shifted to the zero-configuration camp in recent years for various reasons. The point I was getting with is that I've seen next-to-no addons developed with a zero-configuration style in mind.<Really? For me, it depends on the addons. Some addons don't care about customization, some very much do. UI Addons such as Bartender and Xperl, to point out two you named which I'm familiar with, they exist to be customized, not to be just used as is. Whether or not they can be made to do things how you like them, I don't know, but it seems a bit unfair to complain that you're expected to not just use the defaults. Or that they don't work with every addon out there as well as you expect.To bring it back to computers, Sure, there are annoying apps that use their own widgets and whatnot (Quicktime, I"m looking at you), but there are times when the default UI just doesn't work for some people. The difference between most UI addons and Quicktime though, is that one is meant to be different, the other is just being obstreperous. And there's not even any configuration options in Quicktime. Unlike say Mozilla, or WinAmp where I can at least download some new skins.Never wanted that, but it's apparently popular with some folks. >Question: where is a good source of these Addon Packs you speak of?<I couldn't say, I don't download packs, but I guess Curse has them. Whether it's any good, whether any of them are good, or would suit you? It's beyond me. I learned I liked having choices myself, and I prefer to pick and choose rather than go with some. And yes, there are some UI addons that do have too much configuration for me to bother with, Pitbull was one for example. If you'd mentioned that one as being too complicated, I'd have at least understood where you're coming from, but again, the nature of your criticisms, doesn't point me to think you would benefit from a simpler configuration option, but rather, that you'd be more satisfied with tinkering. You may not like the work, per se, but your specific needs are detailed enough that it's required.At least that's how it looks to me.
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