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2-18-2010 @ 4:27PM
I don't see why extending the dungeon finder to 10 man content is a bad thing. I play on a low pop server at a time when nobody is around, it makes raiding anything impossible.I know there is the argument that "bads" as you hardcore types call them, will cause issues, but isnt that why there is a vote kick?
2-18-2010 @ 4:33PM
Yeah and it will be an all-out brawl! You'll be voting yea or nay every 3 minutes. Let's not even talk about the ninjas...
2-18-2010 @ 4:45PM
I totaly agree with MJB. I would love to see this tool implemented. It gives the people with little play time, low pop servers,casual guilds(not wanting to leave) ect ect a chance at raiding.And yes it would have its fair share of problems, but its all the same with the current LFG tool.You always stand a chance to get sub par or plain wanna-be idiots in LFG too. Its just a matter of how you personaly handle things. Thumbs up for this new tool :)
2-18-2010 @ 5:18PM
I'm sure Blizzard's working on it, there are just some additional complications for raids vs heroics. Running random dungeons works by ignoring lockouts. Should random raids also ignore lockouts? If so, suddenly there's a huge shift from being able to run a raid once per week to only being limited by your amount of free time. That begs the question, should random raids even be allowed? Suppose they decide no random raids and no ignoring lockouts. Now imagine you're running an ICC10 pug and you wipe on Saurfang and your raid disbands. Now you're locked out of ICC10 until next Tuesday. That sucks, doesn't it? The same thing can happen in heroics but you only have to wait one day for the lockout to expire, you can bypass the lockout through random heroics, and you probably don't need to down a specific boss for a specific upgrade in heroics. These kinds of complicating factors simply have to be dealt with before the tool goes live or it could be downright unusable.
2-18-2010 @ 5:45PM
Surely those hardcores will never run into "bads" via the LFD tool because they'll have their own guild runs or will be hand picking their PuGs from their friends list because they're just so amazing and everyone wants to raid with them and be like them.For everyone else, the LFG tool will be available for those who don't want to stand around the Dalaran fountain, /waving and linking their GearScore and achievements to a PuG raid leader.
2-18-2010 @ 7:20PM
Cephas has it completely right.The lockout (and by extension loot) issue, not the "bads" issue, is what's really going to require some working out here. If things stall out in a pug 5man, one simply has to frown and wait until it resets the next day, but if things stall out in a 10 man raid, that presents a great deal of complications, mostly that all it takes is that one asshole to get (ninja) that sword he's always wanted off boss 2 of 10 and drop group, leaving everyone else short a tank and locked out until next week, and your next tank drop groups as soon as he gets in since he was after the same sword. Raids require a greater investment of time and skill than 5 mans, so the gear is better, and when you're playing with a bunch of people you'll never see again on a different server, there's no incentive (besides being nice) not to grab what you can, even if you don't really need it, leading to a mass loot frenzy.Also, the majority of pre 3.3 heroics can be done by a fresh 80 with a fair amount of blues, and you never run into a fight that can't be done with 1 tank, 3 dps, and 1 healer. There are plenty of fights in raids that often require a change in the tank to dps to healer ratio based on the gear of the group. When starting out ToTC (and ICC), our 10 man had to 3-heal the majority of the fights, simply because no one's gear could quite handle it. A good couple months into ICC and everyone's gear has improved and we two heal everything. I can't foresee a random system being able to account for this, and I can only see frustration.Maybe these things can be worked around, I wouldn't mind being able to raid-gear some alts without calling upon my small guild, but the above are two pretty big issues that I can see hampering this system.
2-18-2010 @ 8:32PM
IMO, standard lockouts and a very-long-term debuff (starts at four hours, reduced by a few minutes every wipe or boss downing) to prevent too much chain-queueing. Or something of that sort. Hey, it could work.
2-18-2010 @ 11:17PM
"Hey, it could work."I agree that it could work. Moreover, it's likely to happen eventually since Blizzard seems committed to trying to get it to work. At the same time, if Blizzard isn't careful about how they implement this, it has the potential to seriously blow up in their faces. This is something that they're really going to want to make sure they get right before they let it go live, and that could take a while. Think about it, we still don't have new dances, and those are advertised on the Wrath box. Plus, screwing up Raid Finder would be a lot worse than screwing up new dances.
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