Drama Mamas: Love fool
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with the Drama Mamas. Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are real-life mamas and experienced WoW players -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your server. We're taking your questions at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.
If we used logic when choosing our significant others, there wouldn't be so many good stories, songs, poetry, etc. in this world and throughout history. Sometimes our hearts make good decisions and sometimes... well... sometimes our loved one turns out to be a Drama Queen or That Guy. And while the objects of our affection may have wonderful qualities that outweigh their faults, sometimes our friends are stuck with only the bad stuff. Today we have a story of some friends who wish to accommodate a friend who is a love fool.
Dear Drama Mamas, I have an acquaintance in the game I will refer to as "The Guy". The Guy is the real-life boyfriend of another friend in the game who I'll call The Girl. The Girl was a somewhat dedicated raider, The Guy was not. However, in the past few months, The Guy had decided that he finally wanted to try his hand at raiding so he can run with The Girl and do content with her. At her suggestion, he dropped in an application to The Girl's guild explaining that while he was entirely new to the fights, he was willing to learn and would like to run with his significant other and would they give him a trial run maybe? They agreed, and he was given a trial run in 10 man Ulduar, a raid the guild already had on farm.
It didn't go well. Not only was his application denied, he was summarily booted from his own trial run three boss fights in, and his application on the guild forums was quickly pasted and stickied with a public message noting that he was "easily the worst player we have ever seen", citing his "being completely and utterly incompetent at every single thing required of you" as a reason to deny his application. The fallout from this was that The Girl quit her own guild as a show of support for The Guy, then turned to us, a group of her mutual friends who run informal raids now and then, with the proposition that we bring The Guy along to Ulduar so he can see some content and get some loot without having to contend with the egos of a bunch of hardcore raiders. We agreed to this, figuring worst case scenario was we had to explain the fights to The Guy and get him his proverbial sea legs for raids. No big deal, right?
Here's the problem: The Guy really is staggeringly incompetent. (And loud. Very, very loud.)We're not talking "Would do fine with some better gear". We're not talking occasionally stands in the fire. We're talking legendarily bad. Worse still, he's the kind of bad where it's everyone else's fault but his own and he's more than happy to point this out, launching into full-bore shrieking fits over vent when he gets stressed, which seems to be all the time.
That first shot at Ulduar was sobering. In each fight, he'd invariably somehow manage to die in fire right off the bat, or do something to ultimately wipe the raid. Finally, on Kologarn, he proceeded to stand way back in a corner and not move or cast a single spell for the entire fight, ultimately dying when targeted with the eye beam attack, which he simply stood in until it killed him. He then proceeded to complain loudly on Vent about how bad his lag was, and then abruptly left the raid, followed by The Girl who said he was "really stressed out" and that she had to go calm him down.
(It's important to point out that we were explaining the fights to him in fairly excruciating detail beforehand. We weren't just tossing the guy in there with no warning and saying "Okay, go heal!" We asked if he understood, made sure he had a clear idea of what to expect, and even gave him flasks and potions to help out. You can lead a horse to water...)
We ultimately replaced them both and completed the rest of Ulduar with no more problems. The next day, The Guy shows back up and cheerily asks if we're going again tonight, like nothing went wrong. When I tell him it's completely clear and won't be reset until Tuesday, he says "Oh, I figured you guys would wait for me. That's kind of a crappy thing to do. Thanks a bunch." and logs off before I can reply. Problem is, The Girl, who we are all friendly with, is endlessly thankful (and kind-of dishearteningly apologetic) that we haven't already permanently banned him from future runs; I get the feeling she's fully aware that he's no fun to run with.
So yeah, I'm at a loss. I don't want The Girl to feel bad that we don't want to help her boyfriend out, but at the same time, The Guy is both staggeringly incompetent and simultaneously remarkably self-entitled, not a great combination when you're looking to make new friends. None of the other people in our little group want to help this guy out and frankly I don't either. He's about as ungrateful as you can get considering he's basically asking us to carry him through content so he can get achievements and loot he did nothing to earn. But, he's only been with us on one run. Maybe he'll get better? How long should we give him? What if he gets worse? Should we just drag him along as dead weight until he gets bored (which seems inevitable) and thus avoid any drama, or drop him on his butt and hope he has an attitude adjustment because of it? Halp!? -- Exasperated
Drama Mama Robin: Dear Exasperated, you and your guild sound like a bunch of good people stuck in an icky situation, but for all the right reasons. It's also like being on the other end of what Feels Single in Game goes through with That Guy. To directly answer your question, you're getting drama whether you help or avoid the guy. He is drama. And dropping him on his butt is only going to feed his persecution complex. To him, you are the bad guys in this scenario, as evidenced by the whole "That's kind of a crappy thing to do" comment. If you are still willing to work with him a bit (I don't know what's gone on since you sent us this email), here are some suggestions:
- Suggest upgrades for his computer: Take the lag complaints at face value, after all, they may even be true. Find out his system specs and have your savviest member suggest what upgrades he should get for his computer. Then tell him that it would be best if he didn't raid until he gets his lag issues fixed. If he still insists on raiding without fixing his computer, then tell him that he'll be replaced the moment it seems to be a problem.
- Mute him in vent the moment he becomes loud: There is no need to warn him beforehand, because that will just cause a useless argument. But as soon as he becomes disruptive in a raid say, "Sorry man, you're too distracting. You lose your vent privileges for the rest of this run." And continue this one strike and you're out policy forevermore.
- Institute a "no res for avoidable deaths" policy: If he (or anyone else) dies due to standing in the fire or other avoidable reasons, make him run back right away. I wouldn't even wait for him to run back before you move on, since he's just dead weight anyway.
Drama Mama Lisa: I like Robin's suggestions, really I do. But I wouldn't do any of those things. Frankly, The Guy's appalling lack of social and gaming skills is not your problem. The Girl has tried to make it (or allow it to become seen as) your problem, and it could be your problem -- but only if you decide to hit "accept."So don't. Your group of friends is exactly that: a group of friends. The Guy is not a friend. You extended The Girl the courtesy of giving him a fair trial run, and it was obvious to all parties concerned (except, embarrassingly enough, The Guy himself) that the attempt was a dismal failure. Your social obligation is complete. There's no need for elaborate excuses if The Guy comes back at you again. "Sorry, we're full up tonight" will serve perfectly well. It's up to The Girl to figure out how to deal with the fallout.
Here's the point: If you're going to bring a friend, co-worker or family member into a social situation -- including any group activity in an MMO -- you are socially obligated to facilitate the budding relationship beyond the initial introduction. The social burden here is on The Girl, to coordinate The Guy's introduction and smooth the way for future relationships and interactions. It appears that her involvement has been minimal, beyond some initial damage control. It's time for her to step up and take care of an uncomfortable situation that she, in fact, is responsible for creating.
Drama Buster of the Week
I have a long history of foot in mouth disease. As I've grown older and wiser, it happens less and less. But there are still times when I'll babble on and on and realize later that I've made a total butt of myself. You can do a lot to prevent it from happening in your guild by putting relevant information in the guild notes. Put the main for all alts and put relationships in there too. A simple "Onnix's wife" or "Legolol's alt" may prevent innocent comments from turning into embarrassment for all. Of course, if you don't look at the guild notes before spouting off, then the tasty toe sandwich is all on you.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Eddy Feb 19th 2010 9:21AM
Heh, somehow I thought this was going to be the kind of The Guy and The Girl problems my guild always had, which was that my friend and her boyfriend ran together and she kept letting us all die because she was whisper-flirting with other guys during the darn run.
Hanak Feb 19th 2010 9:27AM
hehe ^^
I'd really love to hear the attempt at an explanation from her when everyone is wondering what went wrong :p
Hanak Feb 19th 2010 9:25AM
hmm.... I don't really agree with "It's up to The Girl to figure out how to deal with the fallout. [...] It's time for her to step up and take care of an uncomfortable situation that she, in fact, is responsible for creating."
To me, it rather sounds as it's The Guy who's creating the sticky situation. If I understood it corrrectly, there's no hard feelings from The Girl, only from The Guy. Thus, the only thing that needs to be "solved" is him not getting in the raid. That's solved with a clear "No!", as suggested. The rest is frankly all his problem, since he seems to be the only one not getting the message.
Some ppl can't get along with the world. Since The Girl seems to have understood that her boyfriend is one such person, there needn't be any akwardness between her and the raiders.
Mir Feb 19th 2010 10:18AM
You're assuming that The Girl will be alright with them dumping The Guy. Considering she left her old guild as a show of solidarity with The Dink...I mean The Guy....I think you're making an awful big assumption.
Donaghy Feb 19th 2010 10:57AM
I think she left her old guild because they ridiculed him in public, as apposed to simply denying his application.
Zanathos Feb 19th 2010 11:00AM
Let's not forget that the Girl is the one who presented her Guy as a suitable addition to this casual guild's raiding. She's obviously at least somewhat aware of his social flaws since she's embarrassed and apologetic afterward. Yet she sold the guild on a trial run as "he was unfairly picked up by elitists and just needs some gear", not "I'd like to take my boyfriend with crippling social flaws on your raid to drag you all down". While I can appreciate wanting to put a positive spin on things, she in no one prepared the group for the unpleasantness of running with her boyfriend. She's apparently unable to get him to be on his best behavior for a few hours at a time (two trial raid failures now). Obviously it's not her fault he's a jerk, and he's causing the drama. But she introduced this situation to a guild of her friends, after seeing what happened when she mixed Guy and her old guild. She is totally responsible for creating this situation, and that's the perfect way to phrase it.
Zanathos Feb 19th 2010 11:02AM
From how the second run with the writer's guild went, he sounds like the type of guy a lot of people are going to be ridiculing in public, and not because of his gaming skills.
Draelan Feb 19th 2010 1:47PM
While it is The Guy's bad behavior that's causing the problem, it IS The Girl's responsibility since she introduced him and is the acting link between The Guy and The Guild. Given that she seems to not be taking any action, I'm guessing she's the type who is nervous about coming out and telling The Guy "stop being such an ass!" What she NEEDS to do is get over it and give the guy a wake-up call, or he'll ruin things for her in many future situations. She needs to tell him that his behavior is unacceptable and point out where he went wrong. She needs to suggest to him how he SHOULD be behaving, such as not holding down the push-to-talk button and screeching in vent when he gets nervous. Of course, this could go 2 major ways... 1) He'll decide she's the enemy too, which I think would ultimately be better for her to not have The Anchor.. er.. I mean The Guy... tied around her neck. 2) He'll realize that he really IS making an ass of himself, and at least ATTEMPT to improve. But this has to come from The Girl, since any advice from The Guild he'll likely just brush off as THEM being the jerks. At least there's a CHANCE he'll listen to his girlfriend.
Overall, it looks like a messy situation, and I still think The Girl is better off without him. If he can't handle the social interactions of a casual raiding guild that's willing to hold his hand, then I can't imagine he's pleasant in real life, either. Either way, The Guild should just explain to The Girl why they won't be bringing The Guy along with them, and wash their hands of the situation. If she truly is their friend and an avid raider, she'll understand.
The220 Feb 19th 2010 9:31AM
This was a very good article and the suggestions are great. I would have also added that if he gets mouthy in the chat window, /ignore as well until the fights are over. Do not call on stress to take you over, try to avoid it whenever possible. It's a game after all. And a game is supposed to be fun!
Deadly. Off. Topic. Feb 19th 2010 9:33AM
Thing is, he might be one of those guys who needs someone to sit down with him and have a session over everything he has done incorrectly. Obviously, his girlfriend should be the person to do this, but if she's not willing to police him, she should find someone that has the patience to take this guy aside and explain things to him such as strats, attitude and the merits of teamwork.
He clearly does not understand the mentality for raiding, but by the same answer his experience in raiding is poor at best. If he's not serious about it, and seriously he sounds like one of my friends who expects others to do the work for something they're not willing to help themselves in, then raiding is probably not for him.
I don't think the guy gets it and because of his poor attitude that prevents him from landing help from people who would be normally willing to give it to him. If he doesn't want the help at all, then he's in the wrong place to begin with.
Servetus Feb 19th 2010 9:34AM
Not everyone is cut out to be a raider. It *is* stressful. Healing and tanking are the two most stressful roles, whether you're talking a five man or a 25 man hard mode raid. Sounds like this guy plays a healer. Bad choice. I know there's nothing to do about his class now, but the easiest role in a raid is ranged DPS. (It's not that DPS can't be done well or poorly, just like anything else. But you KNOW that ranged DPS is the lowest stress role. I've held every position in a raid, paladin tank, druid healer/nuker, and hunter. And standing back with the pew pew pew is, by far, the least stressful and demanding role.)
So you've got the n00b running Ulduar? As a healer? As his FIRST RAID? What the HELL are you people thinking? Take this guy to something REALLY easy, like Karazhan, and let him practice. Or at least nothing more than a 10 man Naxx. Yeah, I know that YOUR GUILD has Ulduar on farm status, but does HE have Ulduar level gear? And he sure as hell doesn't have Ulduar level EXPERIENCE.
Yes, the n00b is an assclown for exploding on Vent and behaving poorly. But you've really tossed a guy who is likely very nervous about this whole experience into a nearly impossible situation.
I blame the guild, honestly. Poor choice of first raid. Take him to the kiddie raids first, please, and let him learn what to do. Geez.
ZMES_Matt Feb 19th 2010 9:54AM
Really?
With the gear my guild's tanks have and I have as a healer, I'd wager I could one heal the first 6-7 bosses in Uld, and I would bet that most other competent people could do the same; it's not a difficult place, so long as the other healer isn't trying to jam their own head into the deepest, darkest visage of their own bowel, then anything they do is icing on the cake.
Taking someone to Nax or especially Kara to heal would be far too easy IMO, as decently geared tanks don't even need a proper healer for that place anymore. They might need a heal or two here and there on bosses, but for the most part the healers would sit there...I think Uld was a good selection.
jtrain Feb 19th 2010 9:55AM
There's a difference between "new to this raid" and "new to raiding". I've raided enough over my WoW career that it doesn't take me too long to learn new fights. However this guy sounds like he's new to raiding period, and in that case I kinda agree with Servetus. He's probably reacting like he is because he's embarrassed about his lack of experience/skill, and this is his way of dealing with it. Get a group of your alts to go on a Naxx 10 run with him on some off night, and get him some practice. If he's still a pain in the ass, or if he looks hopeless, well then I guess you did your best.
Zanathos Feb 19th 2010 11:06AM
If he can't not be a jackass for a couple of hours while he's being introduced to a new group of people, it doesn't matter what raid they take him too.
jrizutko Feb 19th 2010 11:54AM
I agree with ZMES_Matt
You guys are talking about forming up a raid just designed to hold this guys hand through old content to train him to raid? I'm sure the guild in question wasn't formed with the intent of becoming the raid whisperer to fix broken raiders. There are 9 other people in the raid with their own goals, preferences and schedules. They have already gone above and beyond the call of duty to give this guy a chance, and he blew it.
I actually run a casual "raid school" style run for my guild for people to learn how to be raiders, or get used to new roles like tanking or healing, and I wouldn't even want this guy in THAT group because it sounds like he doesn't have any desire to become a raider, he just wants to be included on raids. That's a recipe for fail for anyone that gets sucked into his drama tornado.
JB Feb 19th 2010 12:49PM
My guild were short and managed to convince me to join them on a 10 man OS raid [it's like doing a Heroic with more people I was told ....]. I play kitty - I have been playing WoW since release of BC - and this was my first raid experience. I was totally clueless and stressed out big time - the guild has OS on farm and we managed to clear it with me dying twice and 8 players. The advise was somewhat strange - like watch out for the fire wall and hide in the hole??????? Say what???
I was still gearing up so in quest blues and AH epics and totally unprepared. Vent? DBM? What's that?
My DPS was at the bottom of the pile as I was so nervous I would mishit, miskey and mistime. And I don't usually stress either - but I didn't want to let the side down....
I totally agree that The Guy should have had a kindergarten raid....
JB Feb 19th 2010 12:54PM
WTB an edit button.
Somehow my final comment that it was OK for The Guy to be stressed out, but his attitude was definitely not OK, went astray....
cj Feb 19th 2010 1:22PM
I agree they should train him on something easier, but let's say he figures it out and becomes a hardcore raider. Does this make him better socially... probably not. So why train someone who will eventually still be an issue in harder raids? Sounds to me like a lose lose situation.
Servetus Feb 19th 2010 1:30PM
Well, I think we have to assume that The Guy isn't an ass 24/7, because there is nothing else that explains why The Girl would stay with him. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I would suggest that MAYBE this was just how he reacted to something that overwhelmed him, and perhaps the situation is not yet beyond saving.
Now, like JB, I was freaked out in my first raid. And I think I handled it better that our n00b example guy. I apologized for f'ing things up, and showed a willingness to take advice, and then clearly tried to follow it. Was I nervous? Hell yes. Did I do what The Guy did? Hell no.
But, anyone can have a bad experience. I think before you can say this guy's a lost cause, you have to try him in the kiddie pool before you toss him in the deep end with the big kids. If he's still crying and freaking out when the water's just up to his shin, THEN you know you have to put this guy in /ignore.
jrizutko Feb 19th 2010 1:42PM
It sounds like people here are suggesting the guild in question should entirely shift their short term focus to training "The Guy".
If I bring someone into a raid for a trial and he's terribad, I don't abandon my raid's goals until I can bring this guy up to speed, I say:
"I'm sorry, but your current performance is not a match for this group's goals. I'd be happy to talk with you about what you can do to improve if you'd like some help and advice, and I'd be happy to let you tryout for the raid again in about a month after you've had a chance to work on some of the things we talked about. In the meantime, I'd suggest always doing a daily random heroic for practice and to build up your badges for max level gear upgrades".