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2-21-2010 @ 2:12PM
....someone doesn't like tanks in lfgs.
2-21-2010 @ 2:26PM
i think that it's directed more towards people who queue as tank to make it faster but then hope someone else will just take over the job for them so they can go dps.
2-21-2010 @ 2:39PM
Actually I believe it was directed towards the cranky tanks who expect DPS to pull 9k in heroic UK so they can keep up their "heroics in 15mins" quota, or other similar situations.It keeps the tank from leaving group because he'll be out of the system for twice as long, and keep him from kicking said dps because they are only pulling 3-4k instead of the aformentioned 9k.
2-21-2010 @ 3:06PM
Let's be honest here though, if dps queues were shorter they'd be doing the exact same thing. As a full t10 tank who is just fine with 1.5k dps in heroic UK, who doesn't skip bosses, and who won't flip out if everyone in group doesn't have a 94389567839 GS, I feel that "whiney" dps and healers would just as easily drop me if they didn't have to wait.Instead, they just sit there and tell me how I'm pulling too slowly, or give me shit for stopping to loot things, or get impatient when I don't pull 5 mobs and a boss at once, or just take it upon themselves to pull things without me. I'd almost rather be kicked then have to deal with those morons.Its the player, not the class, its just much more inconvenient for a dps to be kicked than a tank.
2-21-2010 @ 5:14PM
I think the guy who made that comment had been kicked a couple times for underperformance.I don't have a problem with people that are undergeared and doing under 4k dps, so long as they are doing at least 1.5k. That was the original requirement for heroics and if you couldn't pull that in January of '09, you got kicked. I don't see why you shouldn't get kicked for it now.If your gear isn't level 80 regular dungeon blues, and you can't break 1k dps, you need to be kicked. Period. There are regular dungeons and quest rewards that will help you get to the dps mark and skill level you need to be in heroics. I don't mind if someone is doing around 1500 and is trying their hardest. On the other hand, It's not my job to carry the auto-attack hunter in greens or the guy who's honestly trying his hardest, but can't break 1k. I'm sorry, but that's what level 80 REGULAR dungeons are for. Get the gear you need for heroics, then I'll be happy to run with your undergeared alt so he can get his t9 welfares.TLDR: 900 dps in heroics wasn't acceptable a year ago when heroics were local-only and it shouldn't be acceptable now.
2-21-2010 @ 5:52PM
@N-Train:As a healer, let me give you some insight at why healers will complain when you pull things in a safe, controlled manner:We're there to heal. It is absolutely boring to go into a dungeon and have the tank do safe pulls, take little to no damage, and produce enough self-healing that they don't even need a healer. Please, just give us some damage to heal. Pull the entire instance, take off all your gear, whatever. Otherwise, you'll find that your healer is on auto-follow and off watching TV or fixing a sandwich or some other form of AFK. Then what happens when you actually need a healer? They won't be there.
2-21-2010 @ 6:31PM
Ha I never expected to get quoted in this, let alone before the cut, so EVERYONE would read it!To clarify: not only am I a tank, I have a druid tank as my main, a paladin tank as my alt, and an up and coming warrior tank (she's 70). This comment was, in fact, directed to the crazy tanks who think that just because they're the tank, they can say jump and everyone else in the party says "sir, how high, sir?" Because sometimes, I just want a break from the pressure of it all, a break from setting the breakneck pace for the "GOGOGO" dps, and just want to mindlessly heal or DPS. Those are the times that I, invariably, get stuck with an elitist tank and have been many times kicked from said groups not for underperformance...but because I dared speak out against them.I once got booted from a group because I asked him why he was voting to kick another player. His reply was simply "Because I said so." The next thing i saw was a loading screen...Of course, we're not ALL BAD. And it is a job that can make you very bitter, very fast. I hve nothing but respect and sympathy for the decent tanks left out there. But after it's all said and done, I do enjoy it, and I think that's why these whiny tanks annoy me so much... because I now exactly what they're going through, and I know that kind of attitude is wholly uncalled for.
2-21-2010 @ 7:04PM
@ Avan-While I appreciate your insight (my other alt is a healie priest), I don't see how any of that is my problem. It is not my problem that healing H Nexus for the 4th time this week in full 245 is easy as all getout, and its not my problem that healers go afk when they should be healing. Usually when I run something below any of the ICC 5 mans, I put a couple pieces of DPS gear on, but to stay capped I'm still going to be running around with enough EH and avoidance to make healing fairly trivial. If you're really hunting for a challenge, heal in ur dps spec or gear, hop out of shadow/chicken to heal then back in to dps, but I don't see how it is my job to make outgeared heroics hard.In the end, healers signed up to take a random heroic just like the rest of us, and if it happens to be really easy thats part of that whole "random" element. I'm not going out of my way to get a lazy healer to do his job just cause its not that hard.
2-21-2010 @ 7:06PM
@Fuzzbut: No, 1.5k DPS WAS a requirement when most people did less than 2k. These days, it most certainly is NOT a requirement to do even 0.5k if the rest of the group is doing 4k average. Hell, if even one dps does 4-5k, the rest of of the DPS don't need to do 1k total. As long as they act nice and do their best (even if they don't know how), there is no reason to kick them.So no, a DPS doing less then 1.5k is NOT a reason to kick OR leave group. The only reason for that are people that act like douche's to others for no reason. Why the hell would anyone spend weeks doing level 80 normal dungeons to get blues when they can easily just do a few heroics with NICE people and get WAY more, for WAY less time.
2-21-2010 @ 9:34PM
I tank both on a pally and druid, rarely have any problems with PUGs (LFG groups), but have been noticing more and more dps with a attitude. For example, people who think they should pull multiple groups of MOBs onto the group, people who are the ‘dungeon guides’ giving bad advice/instructions, and other people just standing around expecting to be carried. If it becomes harder to vote kick bad people or harder to leave in bad situations … I just will not PUG (LFG) anything anymore, which a lot of good tanks have already started to do
2-22-2010 @ 9:38AM
@ devilsei Feb 21st 2010 2:39PMActually I believe it was directed towards the cranky tanks who expect DPS to pull 9k in heroic UK so they can keep up their "heroics in 15mins" quota, or other similar situations.-----------------Yup and we know how cranky, sore and hurt a tank gets when the dps doesn't do what they want to the letter. Just this weekend I ran into a tank who not only put me down for the dps I did on my ALT, but decided to "educate" me by telling me to use the skills I was already using before ranting that he was "carrying me." Oh yeah, I intentionally went in thinking "that Jackass from Skywall is going to be here and he'll carry me so I can just sit back and do nothing."(note sarcasm) Gah, some people really are clueless. I work hard on my alt, I'm trying to gear her up as best as I can in the instances that my gear frame allows me to be in, but these over geared tanks come in and just think the heroics are their playgrounds only. Have you ever tried to burn down a mob that the overgeared players kill faster than you can? How in the hell can you match their dps and be considered viable when they don't give you a chance to even prove yourself.Sad thing is, I had done several instances prior to that one and no one had an issue with my dps. In fact each instance I did was completed and finished in good time. I was even in an instance where I was better geared than the tank and I didn't pull threat, I did my job and even got some upgrades out of it too. As well, let me point out, before I was forced to leave the instance the tank was bitching me in, we had downed the first boss in Occ without any difficulty AT ALL. Finally this was the instance I wanted to go to, to learn it and have some fun in, but I was made to feel so crappy that I just left it. I'm not going to stand around and be insulted and put down by some guy with no balls who thinks he can get off by ranting and raving how useless I was when 1. No one died 2. The boss went down pretty quickly 3. We were progressing pretty quickly It's pretty difficult to keep up with some people when they are geared to the roof and are coming into the heroics just for badges and rush through the content because they've done it so many times before. Of all the pugs I did that day I never felt so abused and hurt then I did with that jerk from Skywall.
2-22-2010 @ 2:07PM
No, as DPS I've definately experienced my fair share of this. Not tanks kicking bad DPS or anything of that sort, but definately tanks (and healers) dropping after one wipe or even instantly (seriously, don't queue for random heroics if you are going to leave before we even start!). And I've definately seen the "I have no queue times so I am superior to you" attitude more than once.So good, there needs to be *some* punishment for this behavior.
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