Shifting Perspectives: Are DoTs worth it? Part 2

Enlightening Moonfire:
Moonfire is probably the best graphical spell in the game. At least, that's what I think. Although, it isn't quite as fun now as it was with the old graphic back in Black Temple, spamming Moonfire to blind all of the melee on Supremus, the annoying glare factor still holds some weight. My love for pissing off melee and tanks staring at boss crotch all raid aside, Moonfire has been our staple DoT since WoW was released. The base-line effects of the spell are not as overtly powerful as with Insect Swarm, but Moonfire has quite a lot of talents and Glyphs going for it. On the talent side, Moonfire benefits from Nature's Splendor, Improved Moonfire, and Moonfury. Glyph wise, there is the Glyph of Moonfire and the Glyph of Starfire.
While all of these are very good things, there is some conflict between them all. Damage modifying talents do not normally stack multiplicativily with each other, instead they are all additive. There are some caveats to this; global modifiers such as Master Shapeshifter and modifiers from debuffs on a mob are all multiplicative. Moonfire, sadly, suffers from the curse of additive multipliers. Instead of Improved Moonfire, Moonfury, and the Glyph of Moonfire all increasing damage by their respective amounts, all of those modifiers are added together in one lump sum which reduces their effectiveness.
Moonfire also somewhat suffers from its split damage component, with the spell power scaling being broken up between the direct damage and the DoT. Without Glyphs or Nature's Splendor, this isn't so much of an issue since both aspects of the spell are strong in their own right, however with the Glyph of Moonfire all but destroying the initial damage portion of Moonfire and the Glyph of Starfire plus Nature's Splendor increasing the duration to 27 seconds (15 seconds base-line, 3 seconds from Nature's Splendor, and 9 seconds from Glyph of Starfire,) this does cause a few complications in scaling.
Looking at Moonfire, we will use the same gearing and buff set up from before. We'll also start with looking at the 'starter' gear as per usual.
Moonfire damage:
(200 + (4076 * .13)) * (1.85) * (1.03) * (1.04) * (1.13) * (1.03) = 1,683 per tick. At 5 ticks, which is the damage without being extended by Starfire, the total damage is 8,415. At 8 ticks, which is the damage after being extended, the total damage is 13,464.
The DoT portion of Moonfire, even Glyphed, does not scale as well as Insect Swarm does. Although it ticks for more than Insect Swarm, it has less ticks per cast. While a fully extended Moonfire is going to be worth more DPS than any of our other abilities, not just in terms of the damage it deals, but also because of the refresh time, you don't want to keep it up constantly. Moonfire should generally only be refreshed when you know that you can reach three full extensions via Starfire casts. Due to that, you would not refresh Moonfire during a Solar Eclipse, or at least, only at the very end of one.
Conclusions:
There are no two ways around it, our DoTs are not exactly our strongest suit. That being said, we haven't yet reached a point wherein they are completely dropped from our rotations, and it is entirely likely that we will not be able to reach that point in this expansion at all. We have run into issues where it is currently not always worth it to refresh our DoTs during an Eclipse proc, and that is an issue, but not entirely unexpected given how grossly overpowered Eclipse is.
While there is currently an on-going debate as to whether or not we should be using the Glyph of Insect Swarm or the Glyph of Starfall, there should not be a question on if we should be using our DoTs or not. That using our DoTs is not a major DPS difference between not using them is an issue that needs to be addressed during Cataclysm, but we must learn, as we always do, to make due with what we have. Both Insect Swarm and Moonfire need to be rebalanced. Solutions such as having them crit are very good options to persue, and honestly it is the change I would make as we need more non-spell power scaling within our rotations. Getting these changes before the next expansion, however, is a complete unknown. Blizzard has currently invested in other methods to increase our DPS by, compounding that with two critting DoTs might push us higher than they want us to be. I wouldn't use the term overpowered, as that certainly wouldn't happen, but Blizzard does have a target level of DPS they want us to reach and certain changes may push us beyond that level. Would it be a terrible thing? Not really, but I'm a touch biased.
Every week, Shifting Perspectives treks across Azeroth in pursuit of truth, beauty, and insight concerning the druid class. Sometimes it finds the latter, or something good enough for government work. Whether you're a Bear, Cat, Moonkin, Tree, or stuck in caster form, we've got the skinny on druid changes in patch 3.3, a look at the disappearance of the bear tank, and thoughts on why you should be playing the class (or why not).





Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Maxilimus Feb 26th 2010 3:29PM
Did you take into account the fact that the DoTs cant crit, where Wrath can?
Tyler Caraway Feb 26th 2010 4:29PM
Yes,of course I did.
Evelinda Feb 27th 2010 9:43PM
Tyler, youre my new hero around here... not only did you write a well thought out, well tested, and interesting article, but youre obviously a brainy guy and make no apologies for it. OF COURSE you took dots not critting into account. And further down, where that guys is whinging about maths... You tell him to suck it up, and i love it. WoW is a game where the people who perform the best are the people who have the smarts to do it, or at least the smarts to listen to the people telling them how to do it. You dont apologise for being intelligent, and using intelligent means to maximise the effectiveness of your characters, and i love it. Keep up the great work. I'll keep coming back for more.
Jafari Feb 26th 2010 3:33PM
TL:DR
Refresh Insect Swarm the moment you are not in an Eclipse.
If you are spamming wrath during an eclispe, refresh Moonfire if your eclipse is at least half over. If you are spamming starfire during an eclipse, or are not in Eclipse, refresh Moonfire.
Kradokk Feb 26th 2010 3:28PM
Why do people even bother raiding as boomkin? What is it that makes this spec so popular? I really honestly don't get it. On my server, Boomkin are the new Huntards. A 25m PuG has 5 of them every time, their DPS is never enough to be raid viable, and even as nice as some of their buffs are, you only need one of them in a raid. Carrying 3+ boomkin through 25m raids is just epic fail. Run a 25m and look at recount next time, you will see a big block of orange, right above the tanks on the DPS meter.
TL,DR: Boomkin DPS in raids are epic fail.
Tim Feb 26th 2010 3:47PM
They are giant chickens...they shoot pew pews. Our Boomkin does great DPS.
catharsis80 Feb 26th 2010 4:01PM
Sounds like you just have bad boomkins on your server. No need to rage here about it.
wthornhil Feb 26th 2010 4:08PM
If you have to ask why boomkins are brought to a raid, then you really must not raid very often.
Morcego Feb 26th 2010 4:55PM
This is a very valid question, even if it was asked in a somewhat .. errr .. colorful way.
People play boomkins because according to many it is the easiest way to level I druid (I disagree, but whatever). Also, boomkins are very easy to play, much easier than most casters. They also have some good survivability, and with Innervate, low downtime.
However, boomkins are very difficult to play well. Gearing up a boomkin is a nightmare of conflicting stats. Lots of softcaps, lots of switches of relative value. Playing a boomkin competitively during a raid is definitively not easy, and not something you see often. Heck, my guild has 1 (one!) boomkin, and we have been trying to recruit a second for at least 6 months. All the ones we've found were lacking. Bad.
However, 1 or 2 (never more than that) boomkins in a 25man raid are a great asset. Not only they give %crit and %haste buffs, they carry innervates, rebirth, has high survivability, lots of damage debuffs (Earth and Moon etc), and can even offheal in a pinch. Also, they do some very competitive damage, if played right, even when doing all the other "support" stuff they do.
The question you should be asking is not why boomkins can be good in raids, but why people suck so much at playing a boomkin. Sure, as a boomkin you have no option but going into theorycraft and micromanaging. You need to be a nuker, a debuffer, a healer, CCer and play overall raid support. I'm not saying it is easy.
The main problem, as far as I can see, if the size of the gap between pre-raid boomkin playing and raiding. It is much, much larger than a DK, Shaman or Paladin (the other 80s I have), or playing druid resto or feral tank (I also do those).
I totally understand you thinking that boomkin sucks. I used to think that way too, until I finally met a good boomkin and saw him in action. The average WoW player will more likely than not never meet a good boomkin, which is sad.
The main proof that boomkins ARE good for raiding (within the 1-2 limit) is that most if not all high end raiding guilds will have them.
Lissanna Feb 26th 2010 5:01PM
It is actually possible for moonkin to do competitive damage. It just takes work, and it's one of the reasons why we need people like Tyler to do the math for us, to see how to squeak out just enough damage to warrant bringing us to the raids.
There have been fights where I came in top 5 on damage, and other fights where I came in bottom 5 on damage. However, with the continued buffs that we've been receiving every patch, we have been able to do enough damage and bring enough utility to not always come in last.
catharsis80 Feb 26th 2010 5:02PM
Kradokk: Judging a class by the quality of players you see in pugs is your main fault here. I mean, what are you thinking? If I used that reasoning, I would assume that the hunter class is bad, when, in fact, if played properly, it is an invaluable asset to a raid.
On the side, I've never understood why people call them chickens. They look like owls. They are even meant to look like owls. They are shaped more like owls then chickens. They are colored more like stereotypical owls than chickens. They are not your stereotypical white chicken. Owls are birds of prey. Seriously, there is nothing about them that resembles a chicken other than that they are simply birds. You might as well call them pink flamingos.
Learn 2 ornithology...I guess. XP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornithology
Lissanna Feb 26th 2010 5:06PM
@catharsis80 - Moonkin form is the same as the mobs called "owlbeasts". Chicken or turkey is what we call moonkin when we want to make fun of the form. "Owlbeast" is what moonkin form really is, and chickin is what's for dinner.
Kradokk Feb 26th 2010 5:18PM
@ Morcego
Thanks for a well thought out reply. As a resto/feral druid, in a 10m raiding guild, I have to PuG my 25m runs. In those runs there are always more boomkin druids then any other druid class. ferals are rare, and resto druids represent well, but most raid leaders try to get an even mix of healer classes. I just don't see the draw to playing a boomkin, but at least now I have a better understanding. IMHO, feral is the way to go for leveling and dps, but its "hard" and boomkin is "easy". Makes more sense now, thanks. I appreciate the versatility and buffs that the class brings, but at least on Khaz Modan, there is a strong overabundance of boomkin, and the ones that end up in PuGs, are generally speaking, very low to dead last on the dps meters, and often very lacking in overall understanding of their class.
@Lissanna
Thanks for a great blog. Also, yes we need tyler to do math, so that boomkin can improve.
@Catharsis
Are there good boomkin in 25 raid guilds? I am sure there are. I raid at off hours, and there is not a 25m guild on my server I can currently raid with, only 10m. Sorry to base an opinion off PuGs, but thats all I have as reference.
Jae Feb 26th 2010 7:04PM
i downing bosses was more important than high dps
BoomingEchoes Feb 26th 2010 3:30PM
Ah I remember back in those days you weren't Balance unless you spammed moonfire.. At least on my server.. It never was about the dot then but the fact that it damaged instantly.
They really did do a lot for Balance in terms of making better use of the spells, even if things get iffy at times. It's probably because Balance was a lot like Holy Pally healing for much of its life: You only really have 2 buttons to push and at most your only really pushing 1 of them.
DoT's have just become Blizzards easy way of making any class more interactive and in Wrath they've made almost every classes DoT (cause really just about every class features one now) a focus point for much of their damage, even if the damage doesn't come directly from the DoT itself. Prime example being the Flame Shock/Lava Burst synergy. I'm just sorta hoping they move away from feeling they need to tinker with DoT's so much and make some of the other spells in the game more interesting.. or rather just make 1 or 2 interesting new spells, though with only 5 levels in cataclysm that seems unlikely.
PodPeople Feb 26th 2010 5:02PM
i figured that the reasons why DoTs have become popular with the developers is 1) that they remove a lot of the burst damage classes can do while maintaining their overall output, in particular when it comes to PvP. 2) they also allow for encounters when mobility is required. if most of the classes have DoTs they can throw out while (or before) moving, it's much easier to have a "diverse" group that can beat the encounter and not forcing raids to stack affliction locks just for one boss.
Jafari Feb 26th 2010 3:33PM
TL:DR
refresh insect swarm unless any eclipse is up.
refresh moonfire asap unless you are in the first half of an eclipse while spamming wrath. If you are spamming wrath during an eclipse, then wait until you are halfway through the eclipse time to refresh moonfire.
also refresh them both when you are moving.
Drork Feb 26th 2010 3:33PM
One just a comment from being a long time reader on wow.com ARRG math. Not many articles with that much math in them around wow.com. It might be nicer if you break down your numbers before hand with the equation (or even just show the equation and skip the numbers and give us the end result those who wish to punch their number can do so). Personally I look at wow.com for feelings and thoughts about things number crunching is something I go to other places for when i feel like hurting myself.
Also on a side note you seem to have glossed over the other advantages which is why they do less damage.
Tyler Caraway Feb 26th 2010 4:54PM
Using math is the one thing I am not going to apologize for, and, frankly, until I am directly told otherwise, it isn't anything I am ever going to stop using. I am a theorycrafter at heart. The game is ruled by math, it is programmed by math, math is the only reason that it exists. I never take other people's math for their own word, I always go out and test things myself. For that reason, I am never going to simply link to another person's work. If it comes down to anything, I'll simply link to my own work that I posted in another place.
As towards your questions about the formulas; I admit that I am very confused. I did lay out each formula and broke them down step by step. Are you asking for the base formulas - like:
Moonfire damage - (Base + (Spell Power * Coefficient)) * (Earth and Moon[personal]) * (Master Shapeshifter) * (Moonfury + Improved Moonfire + Glyph of Moonfire) * (Earth and Moon) * (Arcane Empowerment) = damage per tick.
Is that what you wanted to see?
I also don't know about these 'other benefits' you are talking about. The only thing that isn't taken into account would be 4 piece T10. At high enough crit levels, this might cause Wrath or Starfire to outscale Insect Swarm and Moonfire, but the gap is wide enough that this seems unlikely. If the difference was only, say, 300, then it might cause the difference. Everything else, though, has been accounted for as far as I can tell.
Lissanna Feb 26th 2010 4:57PM
If you don't like the math part, then you can also just read the conclusions.