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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsLove, raiding, and everything in between: how women are taking charge in WoW
by Kelly Aarons 
Mar 1st 2010 at 7:00PM
So, here we have it, folks -- in this new age of gaming, more and more women are picking up the controller, or sporting a mean WASD. What do the guys think?
They think it's perfectly okay.
Now, I'm not writing this to be sensationalist or to seek drama. I'm a bit of a feminist myself and having been a gamer since I was nine years old; I've seen my fair share of guys who "don't think you've got it." Or just because I have two X chromosomes I somehow can't pull some sweet DPS on a random heroic 5-man.
The times, they are a'changing. From the report:
It's believed that women have more fun with social gaming for the sheer fact that it's social. If you're running a 25-man, you need to be able to work together -- there's no room for ego or swinging your 'epeen' around. You need to be able to drop the macho-ism, smarten up and listen to your teammates."A Nielsen report published in 2009 found that women aged 25 and older make up the largest block of gamers in the United States, accounting for 54.6 per cent of all game play minutes in December 2008. For WoW, the male/female ratio is fairly balanced, with 428,621 women between 25 and 54 playing in December 2008 versus 675,713 men in the same age group.Another report suggests that in Britain women make up 48 per cent of total gamers who play online once a week."
Women also connect in ways when things are quiet. A thriving US guild, Got Girls, has bonded over everything from child-rearing, birthdays, relationships, and everything in between. Says member ShawnAnne Dixon:
It's not always easy being a female gamer, especially in a very male-dominated gaming culture. I have heard of much less-forgiving people and guilds who make comments regarding our monthly cycles, certain body parts, personalities and the like. I think it's great that more women are playing the game -- giving some balance to the testosterone-laden playing field."We celebrated a guild member's 21st birthday and a wedding recently. One of our members has a son getting ready to deploy to Iraq -- Got Girls has become a big part of her support system. We have truly become a family."
At this point, sometimes the best thing to do is to beat the guys at their own game.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 8)
Asuul Mar 1st 2010 8:38PM
@Sleutel
Do you also get offended when a guy might offer to carry your bags or some other load? Help you scale some sort of difficult height? Move somthing heavy for you? Fix somthing for you? I would help any of my guy friends with this sort of stuff, but never do it FOR them, like I would for a female friend. It's how guys show that we care, without having to use those words some of us might not be comfortable with. Personally, it makes me feel good to do stuff like that for women, it's feels good to feel needed. I'm sure that whoever it is that I moved that fridge, TV, bookshelf or what have you could probably handled it on her own, but I probably would have an easier time doing it and so I do it for them. Likewise, I would hold a door for an extended period of time for a woman, but for a man only if it was a logical thing to do from a positioning standpoint. It reminds me of my female cousin's friend, who I had met only once or twice before. I had just walked my friend to our campus from my house and returned with my cousin's friend, her never having been to our house before and not knowing the way. I asked her to let me take her backpack, she resisted, I insisted. I carried it the whole 40 min. walk and my cousin told me a week or two later that her friend had commented on how nice it was of me to do that. Truth be told, I got a little warm and fuzzy.
tulipblossom Mar 1st 2010 8:49PM
@Sleutel,
Why on earth would a man hold a door for you, for this reason? And, if a man holds a door for you, why would you assume it was for such a reason and how would you know, to begin with?
And, wouldn't it be a bit small minded of you to assume such a thing? How sexist is it of you to assume that he's holding the door for you, because of your anatomy, rather than because he's a nice person who enjoys being courteous to strangers of any gender?
tulipblossom Mar 1st 2010 8:59PM
Besides, Sleutel, this was exactly the original point.
The extreme way of thinking, that a man is holding the door for a woman because he's sexist somehow, rather than that he's simply holding the door for a female, as another kind human being, is what gives real feminism a bad name.
Abyssis Mar 1st 2010 9:06PM
@Sleutel,
" I DO get mad when a man holds a door for me because I have a vagina. THAT is sexist and insulting."
I have a question. How do you know if a man is holding the door open for you for that reason and isn't just being polite? You know, how their parents brought them up. My cousin is 30 years old, ALWAYS holds the door open for any one and that's because of the way he was raised.
Hell I'm female and I hold the door open for a lot of people (especially if there's a line) and it's usually a man that takes over, no one else offers to do it so I can go and catch up with my family. I find nothing sexist about that, or a man holding a door open for me. It feels awkward for me because I'm not used to it but I certainly don't think "oh his just holding the door open for me cause I have boobs and a vagina.. sexist prick".. I thank him and keep walking.
You would've not survived back in the early days where it was common courtesy for men to do that. Be thankful there are those still around that use their manners.
Sleutel Mar 1st 2010 9:14PM
@Asuul:
"I would help any of my guy friends with this sort of stuff, but never do it FOR them, like I would for a female friend."
Why not? When you treat people differently on account of their gender, instead of their individual capabilities, that's sexism, even if your intentions are good. If you help someone with a heavy load, you should be offering because they need help. Period.
@tulipblossom and Abyssis:
"And, if a man holds a door for you, why would you assume it was for such a reason and how would you know, to begin with?"
"How do you know if a man is holding the door open for you for that reason and isn't just being polite?"
I give people I don't know the benefit of the doubt, and I assume they're just doing it to be polite. However, as is demonstrated here (including in your own comment!), there ARE men who treat women differently just because they're women. If you bothered to read my comment, you'd have seen that I have no problem with someone holding a door just to be polite.
People should be polite to everybody, period. If you hold a door for a woman and not a man, ask yourself, why is that? This kind of chivalry, while meant politely, is a holdover from a time when women were pretty much chattel. It was a sop that said, "Well, okay, you may not be able to own property or go to school or control your own life in any way, but here, I'll treat you like the delicate flower you are. Which, coincidentally, is why I have to be in charge of you, because you're too weak and stupid to do it yourself."
So can you see why that would be insulting?
IMO, the ultimate goal here should be for everyone to be polite to everybody. Do things for people WITHOUT first considering their gender, and the world will be a much better place for it.
Asuul Mar 1st 2010 9:37PM
For the same reason that I might help my best friend with his school-work, but never do it for him unless it was an emergency. He might need a hand here or there, but he doesn't need me to do it for him. On second thought, it's not just women that I treat that way. I would, of course, offer the same sort of aid to an old man or young child, pretty much anyone who doesn't have the musc (/flex) that I do. Just like I help people who aren't as good in school. Just like I go to ask for my cousin's help if I spill somthing on the carpet, as embarassing as it is, I have no idea how to handle it if it's anything wet (although I'm getting better =) ). I guess it just amounts to me knowing that it would burden me a lot less than it would burden the average women to carry things for a good distance, or move somthing that weighs more than they do. Ergo, if it easier for me to do somthing for someone else, I'm gonna do it. This of course does not apply to opening doors, but the mentality just extends itself to helping, even when it isn't necesary. I'm sorry if you take offense to my saying that men are stronger than women, but we just biologically are. We have moar testosterone! Which of course means bigger muskles. Women happen to better multi-taskers due to a thicker corpeous collosum (link between halves of brain). It's just how it is.
P.S. Poor spelling is -mostly- intentional ;)
tulipblossom Mar 1st 2010 10:05PM
Sleutel -
"This kind of chivalry, while meant politely, is a holdover from a time when women were pretty much chattel. It was a sop that said, 'Well, okay, you may not be able to own property or go to school or control your own life in any way, but here, I'll treat you like the delicate flower you are. Which, coincidentally, is why I have to be in charge of you, because you're too weak and stupid to do it yourself.'"
I'm not in complete disagreement with you, here. There are many things in our society that are a holdup from our past. Take the engagement ring, for one. Or, how the woman's family (throughout history) assumes the burden of paying for the wedding. Of course, these things are mostly done out of tradition, nowadays. And, often aren't done at all. There are engagement rings for men, now. Weddings are paid for in different ways, women ask men to marry them, etc.
And, the same goes for the reason a man may hold a door for a woman. Where, there was a time when women were thought of as less than a whole person, weak, and incapable of taking care of themselves; times have changed. Men often hold the door for a woman, because she's simply another human being, as we both discussed, above. Or, they sometimes hold a door for a woman to impress her and flatter her with their manners and politeness. Because, it is mannerly and polite to hold the door for anyone. It may look like a throwback to the past, but you have to be aware enough to realize that it's not.
Sometimes, sexism is masquerading as feminism in our society, just as you said earlier. However, sometimes, you can make a mountain out of a mole hill, if you're not careful.
Sleutel Mar 1st 2010 10:07PM
@Asuul:
Then perhaps you should qualify your statement to say that you offer assistance to WEAKER people, not to women specifically. There's no arguing that on Ye Olde Great Bell Curve of Life, women tend to be weaker and men tend to be stronger. That's testosterone for ya. :D However, that won't tell you how an INDIVIDUAL woman will compare to an INDIVIDUAL man, just where they're LIKELY to appear. But it's entirely possible that you could get a female kickboxer paired against a man with Locked-In Syndrome. Should he offer to carry a bag for her?
The problem is when you AUTOMATICALLY equate female = weak and in need (and want) of assistance. As long as you're helping people BECAUSE YOU APPEAR TO BE STRONGER THAN THEM, I've got no issue.
P.S. This commenting system really needs to start allowing markup. Having to use caps for emphasis MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I'M SHOUTING AT YOU OMG SERIOUS BUSINESS.
Gamer am I Mar 1st 2010 10:42PM
@Sleutel: I usually use asterisks (*) for my emphasis. Whatever you do, please just don't use quotation marks for emphasis; that is a mistake that makes me twitch every time I see it, because it really has the opposite effect, in that it diminishes your point.
Zhiva Mar 2nd 2010 12:28AM
Everyone who says "I'm not a feminist, but..." is a feminist, but is lying to themselves to please chauvinistic men.
Neyssa Mar 2nd 2010 8:17AM
I think the key point missing is treating people EQUAL is NOT treating people the SAME. Our guild is a group of RL friends. I do not behave the same with everyone. I know their personalities: some of them are more sensitive for criticism, some of them cannot stop being loot whores, etc (btw, all boys except for me. and yeah, I am the tank). So, treat them equal, I like them all the same but that attention has to be handled differently. Same is true for girls. The fact that a man is stronger and carries the heavy stuff doesnt mean anything.
Treating equal for me means that you give everyone the chance to give his/her best, without saying 'you cannot do that/you only do that because you are a girl/boy/homosexual', etc.
Deathknighty Mar 2nd 2010 11:43AM
@Sleutel
What I don't get is this: a guy holds a door open for you (and there's no way for you to actually confirm why), and because he does this nice thing, he's a despicable sexist?
I mean, say you're walking down a corridor. There's a guy in front of you. He holds open the door for you, because you're there and heling you makes him feel appreciated. He is a pathetic sexist asshole who only wants to screw you. You walk through the door. He closes it behind you. He takes a turn. You keep going. You never meet him again.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems REALLY messed up.
Sleutel Mar 2nd 2010 6:39PM
@Deathknighty:
Good thing you didn't bother to read a word of anything that's been written or discussed in this whole thread, or you'd know that I always give people the benefit of the doubt as to their motives.
Elathil Mar 1st 2010 7:36PM
Now, subtract from that the number of people that're "the raid leader's s/o". ....Though they're probably still nice and even.
I pug a lot, and I tend to cringe when I hear another female voice in the vent, especially if they feel the need to point out that they're female, or that I am.
Of course, I'm a weird social recluse, and that's a bad thing for me to assume. The article is cool.
Rainee Sue Mar 1st 2010 8:19PM
My raid leader's SO kicks my ass on the DPS charts.
Moody Loner Mar 1st 2010 8:30PM
My raid leader's SO is one of the better melee DPS on the server.
Elathil Mar 2nd 2010 12:47AM
Why would I WANT to be "one of the guys?" I promise, I'm not misogynistic, I'm misanthropic with some antisocial tendencies. Pinkie swear.
I know some couples that raid well too, I know more that don't do anything well, including socialize (I know, that's ironic coming from the cynic, but at least I recognize it). I know some women that raid well, I know a LOT more that don't. I cringe, because my past experiences with women raiding have been mostly bad, and I'm not just talking about skill. (Do note though, I said SO, not wife/girlfriend. I've known some bad hubby's too.)
If you want to know WHY me being female weirds me out (other than I don't feel like it's worth pointing out) I hate being singled out for something, especially if it's something that I don't feel is important.
And, yes, I intensely dislike people, people that don't realize the fire can hurt you, that always run away from the kiting tank on Festergut, that bring stupid high school drama into a game and kill guilds, that take "my alt is here to cover the lack of healers" as a personal insult, that ignore the raid leader AND the tanks to do whatever they want when it's not really helping, people that link meters constantly because they feel the need to prove something, fake-nice people(I may be pretty darn mean, but at least I'm honest about it), and people that are obviously bad, but still considered valuable raid members for some unknown reason. And cliques. I hate cliques. Oh, and using non-Myspace/Facebook things as Myspace/Facebook. ...And repetition, but that's more a pet peeve than an intense dislike. I also have a low tolerance for dumb jokes.
Most of those apply to people I've met of both genders, and I can give examples of both if you want.
But this article isn't about both genders. The first sentence of my post, while ridiculously cynical, does apply to both genders, but I bet that group of people isn't split 50/50 by gender, and it's a group of people that's usually detrimental to the guild/raid, and it's something I've been seeing a LOT of. I've only been in three guilds, but one died because of it, and it was one of the reasons I left another one. For the guild I left, the SO is the worst mage I've met, and the worst mage several other people I knew had met, but when I brought it up, I was told that I "couldn't handle being around another biotch (I don't know what level of swearing is considered safe for work, so I'm being overly cautious here) " and all the guys there proceeded to laugh.
Yeah, having me female-ness pointed out, being brushed aside or somebody deciding to stay in a failing pug because of it, or having to put up with other women that obviously don't know what they're doing but are still labeled as a valuable raider bothers me. It really does.
VioletArrows Mar 1st 2010 7:44PM
"Now, I'm not writing this to be sensationalist or to seek drama..."
1) You *greatly* overestimate the maturity and intelligence of your reader base. See the "Fiancee Wants Man to Get Rid of His Orc Statue" story from about a month or two back.
2) You said the F (feminist) word. Get a mop ready for the frothing misogyny. Actually that should be handy in any post focusing on women.
Back on topic: Actually the best times I had in WoW was more of the social aspect of partying and not being srs biznis u guyz! >:( For me, the game's never been about competing with anybody (especially since most people I've come across in this game don't have a healthy notion of what competition is), just about a different style of hanging out since I live in a rural area with a completely unidentifiable and clashing mix of cultures, none of which suit me.
tulipblossom Mar 1st 2010 7:48PM
It is sort of neat to see that such a large number of women play the game. I'm not someone who really thinks about this sort of thing very much; I don't really care about the gender of the person I'm playing with, either. But, it is sort of neat to know that there are more females running around WoW, then is always obvious.
I don't usually make an effort to point out that I'm female, to anyone in-game. It doesn't really feel necessary. And, if I do, it runs the risk of giving the impression that I'm attempting to shock someone or exploit the fact, somehow.
Because, unfortunately, many players still have the ridiculous mentality that guys are wowed (no pun intended) by girl gamers. And, that if you're a female, guys will fall all over themselves to give you things and help you out. I'm not saying that this is never true, but that it's a silly way of thinking, in general. Unfortunately, many people still think like this. And, by outting myself as a girl, in the game, I run the risk of giving said people the idea that this is what I'm attempting to accomplish. So, I usually don't mention such things.
Although, I will admit, it does get annoying when you've been referred to as "he", or other male pronouns, all day long. Sometimes, I just want to correct people. But, I almost always refrain.
Also, I will say, that when I do play with other females in WoW, there is a much different dynamic, usually. Not always, but usually. I do sort of enjoy it quite a lot. This is not meant to be a sweeping generalization in any way. Because, I'm well aware that this door swings both ways, believe me. But, I find that more often than not, the folks that I meet who will spout racial slurs and just be all around more vulgar, tend to be male. And, when I do meet a girl in the game, it's usually refreshing.
I've been playing games since I was six and seven years old, though. So, the whole "girls play games" thing doesn't shock me too much. However, it is really nice to see that so many girls play, compared to, say, ten years ago.
Moody Loner Mar 1st 2010 7:49PM
Wreck List on Garrosh. Just sayin'.