The Daily Blues: Special Cataclysm report
by Adam Holisky 
Mar 1st 2010 at 2:15PM
Eyonix and Wryxian has been busy responding to questions about the just announced Cataclysm Stats and System Changes. We're going to do a special edition this afternoon of The Daily Blues and get you all the blue posts and surrounding questions/answers that are coming in.
We'll keep the latest blue post about the break. For a record of everything that's been said today, check after the break (there's already several there).
We'll keep the latest blue post about the break. For a record of everything that's been said today, check after the break (there's already several there).
EyonixEyonix,
So what's the point of being a tank anymore?
All other classes will have buffed hit points.... except tanks
All other classes will have bonus defensive capabilities.... except tanks
All dps armor will have more stamina ... except tank armor.
So why are tanks getting the big screw job?
Tanks will have much more health and armor with gear, enchants, gems, and talents. From gear they'll also be getting mitigation stats such as parry and dodge (when applicable). Don't worry tanks will still be tanks, and dps/healers wont be able to fulfill that role anymore than they are able to now.
So what's the point of being a tank anymore?
All other classes will have buffed hit points.... except tanks
All other classes will have bonus defensive capabilities.... except tanks
All dps armor will have more stamina ... except tank armor.
So why are tanks getting the big screw job?
Tanks will have much more health and armor with gear, enchants, gems, and talents. From gear they'll also be getting mitigation stats such as parry and dodge (when applicable). Don't worry tanks will still be tanks, and dps/healers wont be able to fulfill that role anymore than they are able to now.
EyonixVery nice changes overall. Only question I have is what is the point of calling plate armor plate armor if it has the same or nearly the same mitigation as cloth? Seems rather silly.
Plate will still possess much more armor than cloth, the difference just wont be as significant as it is now.
Plate will still possess much more armor than cloth, the difference just wont be as significant as it is now.
WryxianHow does weapon skill chances affect for achievements such: Did Somebody Order a Knuckle Sandwich? Master of Arms I take you already know what I mean.
They may well become candidates for Feats of Strength, but I have no information on this right now.
They may well become candidates for Feats of Strength, but I have no information on this right now.
EyonixYes, but what about warlocks, who get a bonus to SP based on Spirit when they have the armor buff up? Will that spell and buff be reworked as well?
It seems so. I would remind players who are focusing on individual talents and abilities to remember that we're going to be doing a major redesign on all talent trees. So fear not, these changes are meant to work in conjunction with the design of each class come Cataclysm.
It seems so. I would remind players who are focusing on individual talents and abilities to remember that we're going to be doing a major redesign on all talent trees. So fear not, these changes are meant to work in conjunction with the design of each class come Cataclysm.
EyonixI'm assuming they're not removing it from caster gear since Eyonix stated in the beginning about how some casters prefer crit over haste and how you could change crit to haste with reforging. I don't think it was quite mentioned though because they're more focused on trying to get other classes to want the stats. For instance it's utter garbage on my warrior. It's only useful for faster swings to generate a bit more threat, but otherwise it's trash. I think they want to get it to the point of being more viable to people besides casters and mutilate rogues to a lesser extent.
Haste will basically remain the same for casters. It is changing for melee classes, however. Haste will also allow melee classes to recover their resources more quickly, effectively letting them hit their buttons more often.
Haste will basically remain the same for casters. It is changing for melee classes, however. Haste will also allow melee classes to recover their resources more quickly, effectively letting them hit their buttons more often.
EyonixWill reforging become available when the stat changes come into effect? Or will my gear with spirit on it become trash until it does?
If you are a DPS caster, expect to see:
- A lot more Stamina.
- All of your Spell Power converted to Intellect and Stamina.
- No Spirit. You won't miss Spirit, though, because you won't need it for DPS or mana regen.
Your gear won't have spirit on it as a mage when Cataclysm hits.
If you are a DPS caster, expect to see:
- A lot more Stamina.
- All of your Spell Power converted to Intellect and Stamina.
- No Spirit. You won't miss Spirit, though, because you won't need it for DPS or mana regen.
Your gear won't have spirit on it as a mage when Cataclysm hits.
EyonixThis all sounds great and I'm really looking forward to it, but as an Enhancement Shaman with no intentions of ever being anything else I have two concerns.
The first is where I'll get mana. WIth no Intellect on my future gear I'm a little concerned about where we'll be getting our mana from and how much we'll have. I wouldn't want to be in a situation similar to the one Ret Pallies are in currently where they have a very small mana pool. As Enhancement I do regen an awful lot of mana but I also use it up very quickly too (see Fire Nova). You mentioned you guys had a plan for this though so I'm not too terribly concerned.
What I'm more concerned about is this;
That's great for rogues and DKs, but about me? The haste stacking Enhancement Shaman? Many aspects of an Enhancement Shaman's DPS benefit greatly from haste in its current form (Maelstrom Weapon, Lightning Shield and soon Flame Shock to name a few) and would like to continue to see it operate as is does now in the future. Are there any plans to keep haste working as it does for classes like mine where haste letting you "do stuff" more means letting it continue to do what it already does?
The change to haste for melee dps is "in addition to its current affect".
The first is where I'll get mana. WIth no Intellect on my future gear I'm a little concerned about where we'll be getting our mana from and how much we'll have. I wouldn't want to be in a situation similar to the one Ret Pallies are in currently where they have a very small mana pool. As Enhancement I do regen an awful lot of mana but I also use it up very quickly too (see Fire Nova). You mentioned you guys had a plan for this though so I'm not too terribly concerned.
What I'm more concerned about is this;
That's great for rogues and DKs, but about me? The haste stacking Enhancement Shaman? Many aspects of an Enhancement Shaman's DPS benefit greatly from haste in its current form (Maelstrom Weapon, Lightning Shield and soon Flame Shock to name a few) and would like to continue to see it operate as is does now in the future. Are there any plans to keep haste working as it does for classes like mine where haste letting you "do stuff" more means letting it continue to do what it already does?
The change to haste for melee dps is "in addition to its current affect".
EyonixSo, how's this going to work for Ret Paladins?
Retribution paladins are already working this way on live realms, given that they rely on mana. You're just cooldown limited.
Retribution paladins are already working this way on live realms, given that they rely on mana. You're just cooldown limited.
EyonixMy Biggest Concern : A Balance Druids Perspective
How will the necessity of gaining hit through spirit effect how often we see multiple "other stats" appear on gear. For example in todays current system a caster item is reflected by STA/INT/SP and then the addition of 2 other stats between crit, haste, and hit; whereas on a restoration druids gear the stat selection is STA/INT/SPI/SP and then the addition of ONE other stat between crit and haste.
Now I understand that SP will be removed on these items but the initial thread of my idea should remain true. Are elemental shamans and balance druids going to be essential forsaken an extra dps stat on each peice of mail/leather gear we choose (or are being directed towards wanting to use) in relation to cloth casters?
Elemental Shaman and Balance Druids will have access to gear with the same item budgets as every other class.
How will the necessity of gaining hit through spirit effect how often we see multiple "other stats" appear on gear. For example in todays current system a caster item is reflected by STA/INT/SP and then the addition of 2 other stats between crit, haste, and hit; whereas on a restoration druids gear the stat selection is STA/INT/SPI/SP and then the addition of ONE other stat between crit and haste.
Now I understand that SP will be removed on these items but the initial thread of my idea should remain true. Are elemental shamans and balance druids going to be essential forsaken an extra dps stat on each peice of mail/leather gear we choose (or are being directed towards wanting to use) in relation to cloth casters?
Elemental Shaman and Balance Druids will have access to gear with the same item budgets as every other class.
WryxianJust knitpicking one specific point here since it affects my char a lot: Spirit is right now the second most desirable DPS stat for Demonology Warlocks. Will we need to gather 2 gearsets to "get ready" for cataclysm?
For the most part your existing gear will still work out for you, but we can't say for certain that all class or spec combinations will get a completely smooth transition, like the aforementioned example of warriors with leather and mail armor.
For the most part your existing gear will still work out for you, but we can't say for certain that all class or spec combinations will get a completely smooth transition, like the aforementioned example of warriors with leather and mail armor.
EyonixSo does this mean that there will be no more pure DPS caster leather/mail gear (aside from tier pieces)? Will Balance druids and Elemental shaman have any reason to roll on cloth gear?
The goal is that classes will want to wear the gear intended for them.
The goal is that classes will want to wear the gear intended for them.
NethaeraFiled under: The Daily Blues, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Craig R Mar 1st 2010 2:21PM
really hoping for some more on the subject of reforging. At face value I take it to mean we get to turn a level 310 piece of gear with hit rating into a 300 or even lower level piece of reforged gear.
What incentive is there to turn a stat into half as much of another stat any time other than when you're levelling?
Matt Mar 1st 2010 2:26PM
Accidentally posted this below, instead of linked to your comment ...
The way I understand it is as follows:
You have a piece of gear with 100 crit, but I dunno, you want more haste or something. With reforging, now you can have 50 crit and 50 haste.
I also believe different professions will be limited to what types of gear they can reforge ... LWers for leather, BS for plate, etc. I imagine rings, trinkets, amulets will be modified by JCers, Engineers ... I dunno for sure, obviously, I'm just speculating now.
Jehosaphat Mar 1st 2010 2:27PM
If you are hit- or expertise-capped, you can change the (worthless) extra hit into some amount of a useful stat. Sounds like a win to me.
Mattimus Mar 1st 2010 2:28PM
I don't think reforging will make a piece of gear a lower ilvl than it used to be, otherwise you're exactly right -- it would be pretty useless to min/maxers, when stats on gear is going to be so streamlined in Cataclysm already.
Wrabbit Mar 1st 2010 2:30PM
You take half of one stat and add that value to another stat. So, for instance if you are a raider, and you want to be hit capped, you can sacrifice some of the Stamina on an item to increase its hit.
Meatwadz Mar 1st 2010 2:42PM
So what if it even lowers the iLevel of the gear... it is becoming more beneficial to you! I propose they make the iLevel completely invisible so we can stop obsessing over it (and make the "GearScore Mentality" a thing that dies with WotLK).
Derrek Mar 1st 2010 2:45PM
@Wrabbit
You'll only be able to increase stats that are not already on the piece of gear you are reforging. So if you need more Hit rating, you'll have to reforge an item that does not already have Hit rating on it.
Wowcoholic Mar 1st 2010 2:52PM
some of you need to read carefully what it says exactly about reforging:
"As a general rule of thumb, you'll be able to convert one stat to 50% of another stat."
What this says to me is:
If you have a piece of gear with 50 stamina 50 strength and you need agility then 50 strength becomes 25 agility......and you are left with a piece of gear that has 50 stam and 25 agility...
Not 50 stamina 25 strength and 25 agility...
Wrabbit Mar 1st 2010 3:00PM
@Wowcoholic
I don't see it that way. I don't think you can completely get rid of any stat. In that case you'll have tanks rolling on healadin gear, or hunters taking a melee sword, all with the excuse they can reforge it.
loop_not_defined Mar 1st 2010 3:03PM
Ugh, last comment got eaten...
I don't think reforging is meant to benefit people in end-game situations, looking to upgrade their ilvl 300 to a ilvl 310. In that scenario, you should really be holding out for "the right piece", not the closest.
I'm almost certain reforging is meant for people that want to make huge upgrades, but might not be able to hold out for the "right" one, like during leveling (really hate being in the 50s and still using 30-40 lvl gear...), or people who just hit the max level and want to replace their greens/blues quickly.
JoeHelfrich Mar 1st 2010 3:09PM
"You have a piece of gear with 100 crit, but I dunno, you want more haste or something. With reforging, now you can have 50 crit and 50 haste."
I think you (and several other people) have misread. From the original post: "you'll be able to convert one stat to 50% of another stat."
So if there's +100 hit on an item, you'll be able to switch that to +50 crit.
Matt Mar 1st 2010 3:36PM
JoeHelfrich, that's because you are basing your interpretation on a throwaway line that Eyonix made. What I wrote is how they described it at BlizzCon, IIRC. Or what I took away from the BlizzCon discussion, in any case.
jfofla Mar 1st 2010 4:17PM
Reforging is for End Game. It is part of Min Maxing. You do not change the iLevel of the gear. The gear has X number of stats, you are simply redistributing the stats to your liking, not removing them.
Ysaric Mar 1st 2010 4:23PM
@Matt
That's not how I read it, and please correct me if I'm wrong but if you have a piece of armor with 100 crit on it and you reforge it so that 50 crit is converted to haste at a 2:1 ratio then the resulting specs would be 50 crit 25 haste.
I think this will be great eventually, however it will suck if there isn't a way to undo it, especially somewhat early in Cataclysm when a lot of tweaking is going on. You get a great piece of gear that takes a long time to secure, then reforge it somewhat to tailor to your build, then a new patch comes out and you might essentially have to get that piece of gear all over again. Reforging should have some option much like re-speccing where you can reset to the original specs on a CD or for a fee.
boocat Mar 1st 2010 4:46PM
I think the key thing is that it didn't say convert 50% of stat into another, but convert THE stat into another stat at a price of 50% convert. This is how I understand it, 100 crit into 50 Int (as the new stat that's not on said gear)
Matt Mar 1st 2010 4:53PM
Like I said, what I described is the way I remember them describing it at BlizzCon ... removing points of one stat and putting them into another stat. It's possible they changed their approach, but that would make no sense. Turning one stat into half of another would almost always be a downgrade.
Bananacup Mar 2nd 2010 10:01AM
We may have misread.. But who's to say Blizzard hasn't mistyped?
You can argue back and forth on how it's going to work based on a few paragraphs all you like, until the beta for Cataclysm comes out you won't know for sure.
BoomingEchoes Mar 1st 2010 2:22PM
Umm.. Hate to point it out but theres a typo in the header image
flawless Mar 1st 2010 2:24PM
They're Speical with a capital S.
Uhhhhh Mar 1st 2010 2:23PM
Speical?