The Daily Blues
by Adam Holisky 
Mar 1st 2010 at 11:59PM
For a complete roundup of all the blue posts related to the major Cataclysm stat and system changes, check out our Daily Blues: Special Cataclysm Report.
Rolling Restarts TuesdayWe will be performing rolling restarts on Tuesday, March 2, beginning at 5:00 AM PST for all US realms and 12:00 AM PST for Oceanic realms. Downtime for each realm is expected to be minimal.
Thank you for your patience.
Thank you for your patience.
PTR MaintenanceGreetings,
We will be conducting maintenance on the PTR servers tomorrow (3/2) at approximately 6:00 AM PST. The duration of this maintenance is scheduled for 6 hours of downtime.
We will update this thread as more information becomes available. Thank you for your patience in this matter.
We will be conducting maintenance on the PTR servers tomorrow (3/2) at approximately 6:00 AM PST. The duration of this maintenance is scheduled for 6 hours of downtime.
We will update this thread as more information becomes available. Thank you for your patience in this matter.
Dresorull -- Another PTR PvP Event Soon?We'd like to thank everyone that participated in this event. Please watch for more event postings in the PTR forum soon. Blue poster text.
Ancilorn -- Five Years: Five Contests Week Two Winners!We are pleased to announce the winners of the second week of our Five Year Anniversary Contest! Congratulations to our twenty-five winners, all of whom have won a pair of PPK gaming eyewear from Gunnar Optiks!
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/contests/fiveyear/winners.html
Take a moment to check out the winning entries and don't forget to get your cameras and send us your submissions now! Remember that this week's theme is Cute Companion Battlecry!
http://www.wow-europe.com/contests/fanartcontest.html?locale=en_gb
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/contests/fiveyear/winners.html
Take a moment to check out the winning entries and don't forget to get your cameras and send us your submissions now! Remember that this week's theme is Cute Companion Battlecry!
http://www.wow-europe.com/contests/fanartcontest.html?locale=en_gb
Ancilorn -- Intel Extreme Masters World ChampionshipThe World Championship of the fourth Intel Extreme Masters (Electronic Sports League) in World of Warcraft 3v3 Arena will be held on March 2-4 at CeBIT in Hannover, Germany.
Twelve international teams will show lots of thrilling action while competing for an overall prize pool of $50,000. You can see all the matches live with English commentary on ESL TV -- a free non-stop video stream. For more details, including team profiles, interviews with participants, and the video stream, see the official coverage page - http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season4/hannover/
Twelve international teams will show lots of thrilling action while competing for an overall prize pool of $50,000. You can see all the matches live with English commentary on ESL TV -- a free non-stop video stream. For more details, including team profiles, interviews with participants, and the video stream, see the official coverage page - http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season4/hannover/
Ghostcrawler
Ghostcrawler -- Is Threat Fun?When threat doesn't matter as a tank, then maximizing your rotation doesn't matter much either. To use the warrior example, you could skip Devastate, Revenge and Shield Slam and just autoattack and use defensive cooldowns. Is that fun?
On the other hand, many of the requests we see are for harder hitting attacks, especially on the AE front, so that in essence it's less work to tank multiple mobs at once. Is this really what you want?
I would assert in the current game that threat is almost never an issue. It might be an issue in the first few seconds of a fight (including when new adds join the party) or when the dps severely outgear the tank (such as in a Dungeon Finder situation). Especially in a world with Misdirect, Tricks of the Trade, and Tauntable bosses, tanks on single-target raid fights get so far ahead of the dps and healers, that catching them would be almost impossible. We could definitely tone this down a little such that tanks needed to fight for threat a little more than they do now. Some players would welcome that change and some would say that Blizzard hates tanks and makes them work too hard.
Discuss.
On the other hand, many of the requests we see are for harder hitting attacks, especially on the AE front, so that in essence it's less work to tank multiple mobs at once. Is this really what you want?
I would assert in the current game that threat is almost never an issue. It might be an issue in the first few seconds of a fight (including when new adds join the party) or when the dps severely outgear the tank (such as in a Dungeon Finder situation). Especially in a world with Misdirect, Tricks of the Trade, and Tauntable bosses, tanks on single-target raid fights get so far ahead of the dps and healers, that catching them would be almost impossible. We could definitely tone this down a little such that tanks needed to fight for threat a little more than they do now. Some players would welcome that change and some would say that Blizzard hates tanks and makes them work too hard.
Discuss.
Ghostcrawler -- 3.3 Scourge StrikeI dont think we read the same posts, it isnt about how complicated it is. It's about how another ability (obliterate) does the same thing, better.
I was reading the posts in this thread. Two of them above said essentially "it's not as cool when it doesn't hit for Shadow damage" and "the tooltip is complicated." I was responding to those points.
To respond to some of the others:
We're happy with how much damage DKs can do in PvP. They were too susceptible to dispels, and we have now implemented a fix to help with that.
Class abilities are different. Envenom is not Scourge Strike. Rogues still do a lot of physical damage. Frost Strike still hits for 100% magic damage, but it's a more controlled ability. The DK in PvP hitting for huge Scourge Strikes over and over again is not something we're going to go back to. It may have been fun, but I assert it was fun because it was overpowered not because Shadow damage is somehow more entertaining.
Players using armor pen to hit for physical damage do not hit for magical damage. The closest argument could make is that bleeds act similar to magic damage.
Obliterate is a different ability. Unholy has talents that play off of both Scourge Strike and Shadow damage. If we see Unholy DKs literally going to Obliterate and skipping those relevant talents (which some PvE DKs were doing before), then we would make changes, but they don't seem to be doing that now. We're certainly not going to make Scourge Strike HIT REAL HARD in order to distinguish it, so make sure you're asking for what you really want and not try to sneakily ask for a damage buff.
In general, I find arguments to be generally weak that say "This class does X so I should be able to as well." If you have specific problems in PvP, mention those. If you think your damage is too low to exert pressure, that's a fine conversation to have. I would try to do it without the "But X ability hits hard, so mine should too" talking points.
Finally, this dead horse feels a little dead to me. You might want to check out some of our (numerous) comments on the intent for Scourge Strike before you hit that Post button again.
I was reading the posts in this thread. Two of them above said essentially "it's not as cool when it doesn't hit for Shadow damage" and "the tooltip is complicated." I was responding to those points.
To respond to some of the others:
We're happy with how much damage DKs can do in PvP. They were too susceptible to dispels, and we have now implemented a fix to help with that.
Class abilities are different. Envenom is not Scourge Strike. Rogues still do a lot of physical damage. Frost Strike still hits for 100% magic damage, but it's a more controlled ability. The DK in PvP hitting for huge Scourge Strikes over and over again is not something we're going to go back to. It may have been fun, but I assert it was fun because it was overpowered not because Shadow damage is somehow more entertaining.
Players using armor pen to hit for physical damage do not hit for magical damage. The closest argument could make is that bleeds act similar to magic damage.
Obliterate is a different ability. Unholy has talents that play off of both Scourge Strike and Shadow damage. If we see Unholy DKs literally going to Obliterate and skipping those relevant talents (which some PvE DKs were doing before), then we would make changes, but they don't seem to be doing that now. We're certainly not going to make Scourge Strike HIT REAL HARD in order to distinguish it, so make sure you're asking for what you really want and not try to sneakily ask for a damage buff.
In general, I find arguments to be generally weak that say "This class does X so I should be able to as well." If you have specific problems in PvP, mention those. If you think your damage is too low to exert pressure, that's a fine conversation to have. I would try to do it without the "But X ability hits hard, so mine should too" talking points.
Finally, this dead horse feels a little dead to me. You might want to check out some of our (numerous) comments on the intent for Scourge Strike before you hit that Post button again.
Ghostcrawler -- Blowing a ShardA more accurate quote probably would have been "They are all for combat."
We are still working out what exactly you can blow a shard on. Some of the in combat but not damage abilities, such as the Fel Dom example from Blizzcon, are still on the table.
We are still working out what exactly you can blow a shard on. Some of the in combat but not damage abilities, such as the Fel Dom example from Blizzcon, are still on the table.
Filed under: The Daily Blues
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
xandrence Mar 2nd 2010 12:41AM
lol @ "blow a shard"
Makoto99 Mar 2nd 2010 12:48AM
Glad I wasn't the only one who giggled at that.
Zhiva Mar 2nd 2010 12:58AM
Can you please explain the pun to non-native English speaker? :)
Panduh Mar 2nd 2010 1:07AM
sexual references ftw...
Zanathos Mar 2nd 2010 1:24AM
it either reads as: use up a shard
or
perform oral sex on a shard
Jamie Mar 2nd 2010 1:27AM
I would imagine it has something to do with glass making.
Bernee Mar 2nd 2010 1:36AM
It can read as a few other things too.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shard
(cutaia) Mar 2nd 2010 1:42AM
*starts guild called "blow a shard"*
Drakkenfyre Mar 2nd 2010 1:42AM
That "blow a shard" dates back to BlizzCon.
Gothia Mar 2nd 2010 2:28AM
Well, I read wasting a shard in reference to "blow" so I think we have some twisted posters here with vivid imaginations?
Sehvekah Mar 2nd 2010 3:02AM
It's the Internet, what else would you expect?
rawrawrawr Mar 2nd 2010 5:14AM
Blowing a shard better have an awesome animation...
lolwut Mar 30th 2010 9:55AM
even more dk nerfs, good job, gc.
Ozzard Mar 2nd 2010 4:45AM
*sighs at having an EU account and therefore not being allowed to respond to the threat post on the US forums*
People have different definitions of "fun". I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the way back to "fun" lies with personal hard modes: you can make the game harder for yourself, but get greater rewards for doing so; and you don't have to group with other people who also want the game harder.
For example:
The game on normal mode is balanced as now.
When you zone into an instance your setting is set to "normal mode".
If you have not died in the last m (15?) minutes, you can choose to set "hard mode" on yourself.
Hard mode reduces your output damage and healing by n% (say 10%). If you are designated the "tank" in a group (or are in an "uncrittable" form in Cata - bear form / righteous fury up / defensive stance / frost presence) it also reduces your threat output by n%; otherwise it leaves your threat output as-is.
If you defeat a mob in personal hard mode, the gold dropped by that mob is increased by n%.
If you defeat a boss in personal hard mode, there is a n% chance of an additional emblem or other boss reward, assigned directly to you.
Other people and the LUA API can see who's in hard mode and what n is, so those with the "recount mentality" can see what the figures would have been without hard mode and cheer that they still top the DPS meters.
This would require a little balancing with the economy, as it brings some extra gold and d/e mats into the economy, but it could work. The people who want to live on the edge can do so and get extra rewards, but those people can work with others who want an experience that's balanced differently.
Thoughts?
Sinthar Mar 2nd 2010 5:28AM
Hmmm personal Hard modes. And if they dont effect the rest of the group.....how it that fair. If your tank goes HM, and reduces threat, he increases his personal peril, yet if the tank is in more danger and producing less threat, that endangers dps and healers too. So what will they get out of it?
Why not just 4 man it with 3 others of like mind. that increases gold you recieve off each mob too - and DE mats etc as you will now have a 1 in 4 chance (25%) rather than a 1 in 5 chance (20%) to get it.
As to extra badges - well their not exactly hard to obtain atm, so i doubt any extra difficulty would be sufficient to make it produce and extra badge - their one a boss after all, so increase difficulty by 100% before that would be justified imo.
Overall my PERSONAL opinion is this would be too complex, unfair on others grouping with you, with not enough reward to be implemented, with dev time already at a premium with Cata and patches going on. Sorry its probably not what you wanted to hear, but its my honest opinion.
Ozzard Mar 2nd 2010 5:47AM
@Sinthar: Thanks for the response.
The "time since death" is intended to prevent putting the rest of the group in too much peril: if you wipe, you can't go back into personal hard mode immediately. Timing on that is, of course, a compromise between the idiots who will try hard mode when they can't do the instance anyway, and (say) someone coming into 5-mans from a failed raid.
What do others get out of it: Potentially a wider range of people to group with, who are actually engaged in the content rather than AFK half the time. If the content pushes someone's personal "fun" button, they're more likely to do it.
Why not 4-man it? I'd love to be able to tell the LFG tool that I'm happy to have a 4-man group... but I can't. Also, given the DPS queues, 5-man groups with 3 DPS provide more throughput on the queues. If I'm running with a guild group, we'll often 4-man the older heroics anyway.
Extra emblems? This isn't - necessarily - a solution for the current expansion. We're near the end of this expansion, and players are bored. It's a way of equalising difficulty. So rather than think "omg emblems I have so many of those I'm feeding them to my dog", think rewards in Cataclysm. Alternatively, why not be constructive? What reward, if any, *would* make you want to turn on a hard mode? Or none at all?
If the mechanics are simple, then this isn't technically too complex to implement. It's certainly no more complex than the scaling of single-tier spells with level that's being introduced with Cataclysm, for example; it comes down to one multiplier that's applied to each of damage, healing, and threat, where the multiplier is re-evaluated when buffs change. There will be enough code changes to that part of the server code during Cataclysm development that such an addition would be tiny. The UI changes would also not be huge. If it takes a lot to develop and balance, I agree with you that it's the wrong solution!
BubblePriest Mar 2nd 2010 6:45AM
Unfortunately the problem with a personal hard mode in your scenario is it places the burden of the hard mode on the other people in your party. If the tank is producing less threat it makes the dps have to scale back further so they don't pull (or else they get to off tank that run). Therefore the group takes longer. The only person who benefits, however, is the tank who made it a hard mode run.
If the "hard mode" part of it was to decrease tank survivability then you'll have a healer who suddenly has to work harder to keep the tank alive, but reaps none of the benefits.
If the healer's hard mode was that the tank's survivability decreased, it would still be unfair because the tank suddenly has an increased risk of death (and nasty repair bills) and reaps none of the benefit.
MMOs supposedly function in a way that gives those who put the most effort in the biggest rewards (people will debate whether this happens or not til they turn blue in the face, but this is almost always the design intention). Yet the "personal hard mode" forces four other people to work harder with no tangible benefit.
Your personal hard mode idea would only work in a scenario where players are not codependent. There is simply no way to separate roles in PvE content to the degree where one player playing poorly (either through lack of skill or a conscious decision to reduce their effectiveness) does not affect anyone else. I suspect the same is also true of PvP but quite frankly that side of the game doesn't exist in my WoW world. If you want personal hard modes, you will have to encourage Blizzard to develop challenging and rewarding solo content.
iammurlocftw Mar 2nd 2010 7:21AM
Well then consider going hard mode in solo play, it could do a straight dps and heals decrease for everyone. I'd go for more gold from killing things, and maybe in solo play it increases your chance to get a world epic by n%. Could increase quest reward and anyway, I'd like a challenge when i solo my group quests.
This could especially be fun pre-80 when it's pretty easy to solo most of the instances up through level 50 or 60 (maybe more if you're a paladin). This could be used to make it actualy hard to solo instances.
Ozzard Mar 2nd 2010 7:22AM
@BubblePriest: Excellent comments - and you're right, it doesn't work (unless the player who's turned it on outgears the content and the other players so far that, even with hard mode turned on, it's *still* not challenging). Back to the drawing board!
I'm still interested in how to make the game "fun", where different people have different ideas of what fun is. In particular, I'm looking at the pain of random 5-mans, where people queue for very different reasons and with very different expectations.
Wowcoholic Mar 2nd 2010 9:04AM
I dont remember who, but I remember reading a response that someone posted that is along the same idea as you. But their idea was just having a personal instance. That's right, a one man dungeon. You queue up as your pve spec (tank/dps/heals) and perform your role - everything scales to your gear - and it's up to you to be nonfail. It sounds like a skill check to me, and I really thought it was a neat idea. Who knows, maybe even Blizz would toy with it...