WoW.com Guest Post: What Cataclysm might mean for guild alliances

In this installment of WoW.com's ongoing guest post program, we welcome Nico Deyo. Nico is a sometimes mage blogger and all-around nice gal who writes at Empowered Fire.
It's no secret that Blizzard is going to be changing the face of guilds in Cataclysm with guild talents, perks from being a collective entity, and rewards for using their new tools. While this benefits the majority of groups, what about those who have created something outside of the standard? They might not be a large chunk of the WoW playing population, but for the people who raid and socialize differently than the average player, the systems raise some new and troubling questions. Blizzard's particular idea of a guild is becoming the predominant social unit in Cataclysm, and those who don't fit into it might be all but left in the dust when it comes to new mechanics and rewards.So who doesn't fit? I'm talking about two groups, mostly -- guild collectives/coalitions (several guilds who have banded together for a common purpose) or raid alliances (a very specific coalition or mixed group of people formed into a team for content). Both are two structures that have emerged socially and pragmatically to fill gaps that the traditional guild structures of yore haven't met.
Guild coalitions serve to create a larger pool of people out of several smaller pools and provide easier access to socializing, or goals -- whether that be raiding, PvP, crafting or just fun activities like role-playing or exploration. They often have organized calendar events, raid teams, or shared chat channels in order to gather and socialize. Raid alliances, on the other hand, have risen in popularity with the advent of 10-man raids -- a 10-man team doesn't necessarily have to be part of a larger 25-man raid team or even the same guild. This even holds true for 25-man raiding: some raid teams are formed solely from smaller guilds that just don't have the membership or interest in supporting one 25-man raid team from their guild roster. Both of these instances for raiding and socializing have come out of a very real need from some of the people in World of Warcraft. It may not be a grand portion of the entire Warcraft population, but very soon they might find themselves hard-pressed to continue business as usual in the face of Cataclysm's guild benefits.
I know this because I'm facing it myself. I belong to a guild collective on my server that I've been a member of since I first started playing Warcraft back in 2005. It's been my home, my family and my social outlet all these years. We have two 25-man raid teams, countless 10-man teams spanning four guilds, and a collective chat channel. It has changed and grown over the years, but now that the idea of Cataclysm's guild benefits are becoming more and more lucrative, we're already seeing a push for at least a raid guild amongst our social guilds for our progression 25-man team. I haven't been very enthusiastic about this at all. Is it wrong to fear change? Possibly. But for raiding in particular, I know some people are going to be feeling the push or the pinch to support a guild with their raiding endeavors. My guild specifically has enough people to be able to level up their guild talents without help from killing bosses, but what about those who are smaller? Or focus on a raid collective?
We aren't the only ones who might have this problem -- there's many more like us in similar situations. How are the Leftovers going to handle raid achievements when the Cataclysm require 20 people in the same guild to count a kill? Spreading Taint? Those are just two of the major, well-known social groups that I am sure would do well in their own right, but what about smaller coalitions? This isn't even the first time our sorts of teams and guilds have had to deal with not being as lucrative as a raid guild or singular entity. While WoWprogress and GuildOx have looser requirements for raid kills or achievements, they have historically not tracked guild alliances or raid alliances in mixed-guild boss kills. While I understand the difficulty, the fact that this will continue on in Blizzard's plan for guilds is rather disheartening.
Simply put, Cataclysm's changes for guild talents will not benefit most of the guilds who participate in activities under an allied umbrella. Raid teams will not get credit for their kills in their guilds in terms of leveling up. Same goes for PVP combat. If a guild that is part of a coalition is large enough to level without using raiding or PVP, they will ultimately benefit from questing, crafting and other such things. If they aren't, this is going to keep smaller guilds from gaining talents a lot longer. This creates a dilemma - either the smaller guild needs to find alternate methods to earn talents themselves under this system or join a larger guild in order to have everyone benefit. This becomes more of a sticking point for any collection of guilds that focus on raiding. Blizzard is providing many incentives to become large, healthy guilds with boosts to questing, craftables, and just overall organization for members. In this vein, only the largest of guilds in a collective or the most stubborn of coalitions will remain unchanged by this, but most people have been scrambling since Blizzcon 2009 trying to understand how this will affect things. Back in our guild collective, we've already started "beta-testing" the raid guild and I have not joined it. I'm still very torn having to choose between raid achievements and guild talents and the guild I've been a part of for almost four years now. I'm sure that others are feeling the strain too.
While Blizzard has been amazing at allowing all playstyles to succeed in this past expansion, this feels like a disavowal that emergent social structures in their MMO are as important as things like easy access to raid content, epic gear rewards from heroics, and cross-server grouping. I'm not sure why Blizzard can't come up with a solution for the problem either; it might just be a case of dealing with the majority as opposed to the handful of people who genuinely use and enjoy more than one guild or non-traditional social structures. Other MMORPGs, such as Eve Online and Guild Wars, have not only set allowances for guild alliances and coalitions, but made it incredibly easy and beneficial within their game mechanics. I believe that Blizzard could find a way to implement a way to purchase an alliance -- one that would come with its own tag or tabard, integrated chat channel and ways of using the already existing in-game calendar and raid panels to organize members. Easy restrictions could be put in place with exorbitant costs to be shared by the member guilds, or limits on how many guilds can join, or how alliance activities create bonuses towards their individual guild leveling. An even easier way of perhaps quieting some of the backlash from raid kills or PvP events would be to just allow a reduction in the number of people from a guild needing to be present in order to gain credit. 20 guildmates still seems rather steep for a raid boss - using 10 would be a step towards smaller guilds and mixed-guild teams to have a little more leeway on options for what they would like to do in Cataclysm.
I'm sure our little "guild of guilds" will survive as four guilds and a raid guild, regardless of how Blizzard enacts guild talents. But I feel for all of the other crews of people who raid together, have fun together, and have forged bonds that have no singular guild tag and stand under a banner that they created themselves. We are not the majority by a long shot, but we've definitely carved a special place in the WoW social sphere, and this will affect us all in the coming months. It just remains to be seen how much.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Cataclysm, Guest Posts






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
kunukia Mar 4th 2010 3:09PM
My PvPing hunter has my banking guild, as opposed to my raiding hunter who is in the same friends and family guild that I have been in since vanilla. I guess my PvP hunter is gonna lose out. /sigh
kunukia Mar 4th 2010 3:29PM
Or (D'0h!) I could make some less prominent al my banking guild, and move my PvPer back into the main guild...
Meijnrr Mar 5th 2010 4:10AM
I don't know how no one remembers this but at BlizzCon it was said that only the top 10 contributors in the guild give it XP. This prevents guilds bloating up to level.
Yada Mar 4th 2010 3:10PM
You may have missed it, and I can't find a ref URL right this moment, but this issue was brought up when the proposed guild changes were announced. The answer at the time was "unfortunate, but that's how it is" -- basically they said they were not going to make allowances for guild alliances because the problems tracking alliances creates was too complex. I suspect this is going to be one of those cases where they may adjust the number of guildies in a raid are required to grab the achievement, but I sincerely doubt they'll be coding a bunch of new features aimed at supporting guild alliances.
My personal suspicion is that guild alliances are going to fade away over time after Cataclysm is released because guildies will be too anxious to max out their own guild progression and perks. Guilds that are incapable of expanding to suit their ambitions will probably merge instead of being loosely aligned. Just my crystal gazing based on limited info, but there you go.
Wolftech Mar 4th 2010 3:15PM
That is the one thing (and the only thing, IMHO) that Warhammer Online has over WoW. They have guild alliances built into the game.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Mar 4th 2010 3:35PM
Their opinions change through time...especially when money making is involved. But that begs the thought that if they had at one time claimed it's too complex... then just hire someone else to do the work. It's not like they don't have the means to increase their income to fund projects like this.
Brian Mar 4th 2010 3:57PM
As Deadly stated, Blizzard changes their minds as the game is tested. Remember that originally rested state worked completely differently, as did how death worked (the original beta had xp loss from death!)
I have a feeling that the mechanic will quickly change in beta to be each person in the raid from your guild contributes x%, where you get 100% of the benefit if 60% or more is from a your guild. The fact that you will end up with "mega guilds" just for the bonuses will be too much of a strain on the social structure rather quickly.
Jamie Mar 4th 2010 4:48PM
I think the first major online game (and I could be wrong) to including actual "alliances" between guilds was Guild Wars' Factions expansion, for both PvE & PvP content which meant; "Alliance Battles" (PvP), sharing Guild Halls and having a cross guild chat.
The latter is a pretty huge feature for casual guilds who do not share a TS/Vent server.
Bring on physical Alliances in Cataclysm is what I say! They're working on a better platform for guilds, Blizzard, Take it that one step further!
Faith Trust Mar 4th 2010 4:49PM
An interesting point there, x% of completeness from person would be rather pleasing.
So you don't have 20 raiding guildies, well, you can still advance ..its just going to take you longer. ..You have a raiding coallision, well, each guild will still progress according to the percentaje of people from each guild present.
You might need to clear the raid more times for the achievements, but, if you are determined and a social thing is important, i think it would be a nice solution without getting into the mess of guild alliances
Dragonrose Mar 4th 2010 5:39PM
Merging would be the way to go for me.
Verit Mar 4th 2010 6:25PM
@ Jamie:
Eve Online has had them since launch, Lineage 2 had them (Lineage probably had them), Warhammer has them etc etc.
Actually WoW is one of the few games that doesn't have a guild alliance feature.
Alex Mar 4th 2010 3:15PM
I don't see why you can't have one guild for raiding, several others for social events, while still enjoying the same benefits of an alliance, such as a collective chat channel. Unless you are really that attached to your guild name, it will be in effect an identical setup.
Ringo Flinthammer Mar 4th 2010 3:27PM
Because the benefits that your raiding guild earns will be unavailable to the social guild. A lot of them, like guild heirlooms, are of little to no value to the raiding arm at all.
itanya_blade Mar 4th 2010 4:07PM
Because we're RP guilds with players that like to raid together.
My blood elf paladin wouldn't be in a "guild" with the orc shaman, despite the fact that the orc is one of my closest friends and my partner in raid leading.
Glaras Mar 4th 2010 5:00PM
Well, for one thing, your toon can belong to exactly one guild. So you really *can't* have all the ones you mentioned. If you're in your raiding guild, that's where you are, period.
For example, my Resto/Ele shaman is my main these days. I heal in our guild's 10-man runs. But soon, we're moving to a 25-man format for sanctioned runs, and the 10's will become an "interest group" under the guild umbrella. Since I'm becoming more of a hardcore raider, I'll probably be looking for a cross-guild raiding team that wants to really hammer this stuff out.
But I also enjoy PVP. I'm not real BG-monster, but I do like it. I'm one of about 6 people in our guild who like to do it, so if I want to work as part of a team, that's a 3rd group I need to get together with.
To complicate all this, my family plays, and we all belong to the current guild. I can't just drop the guild to join one formed around the hardcore 10-man unit. Or one built around PVP.
So I have social, two forms of raiding, and PVP concerns. Come Cataclysm, which one is going benefit from my participation? That question is the central one the author of this piece is asking. And the answers aren't very pleasant to consider.
gperrigo Mar 4th 2010 3:17PM
Our guild is already starting to experience some change as a result of this mechanic. We have been raiding with 2 smaller guilds since Wrath launched and had many of our more experienced raid members working with this guild "collective." Over the past few weeks some of the members of the participating guilds have decided to form a new "raid guild" to benefit from Cataclysm's guild benefits. Clearly the loss of these experienced members has been a blow to our guild in terms of experienced leaders and friends. Unfortunately, I think this is just the beginning of a kind of guild "brain drain" of our more experienced raid members.
Dashifen Mar 4th 2010 3:54PM
We saw something like this, too, though it was with two smaller guilds that were raiding together where we just eventually all sort of moved over into one of them and let the other lapse. Now we have one, larger guild. I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of thing becomes fairly common and instead of having a banking guild and a social guild and a raiding guild all on different toons, those sorts of activities will be combined into a larger guild with smaller sub-sets of players.
Besides, if you want a custom chat for your 10-man group within a larger guild, you can set that up by hand so I suspect that while adjustments will have to be made, things'll work out in the end.
Glaras Mar 4th 2010 6:33PM
We've also discussed merging into a larger guild, but there are 2 issues with that. First, there's "brand loyalty": no one wants to give up their guild identity for the other one. Second, there's the issue of the rather expensive guild bank. All those tabs cost gold, and while it's not a crippling amount, we hate to see it wasted. If there was a way to merge guild *assets* along with the guilds themselves, it'd make it easier. Having a 12-tab vault would be cool, all by itself...
Some folks have very tentatively suggested forming a completely new guild into which members of the old guilds could move. But... and this is just the realities... there are always going to be people who won't be part of a guild that has some particular someone already in it. Right now, it's not an issue. When the guild rewards start accumulating, tho...
galestrom Mar 4th 2010 3:18PM
An interesting perspective, but it's a lot to speculate on with so few details about the guild leveling process revealed to this point.
Every mention I've heard of guild leveling mechanics has also come with the statement that it shouldn't impede smaller guilds from being competitive. If true, then this wouldn't have a profound impact on guild alliances, because each guild would still be able to level irrespective of their allies, and choose their own rewards as a result. Would they do better as one? Who knows, but if it's only based on the top 20 players in a given guild, then I don't think so. (Unless of course, the guild doesn't have that many players/alts.)
It's interesting to think about for sure. I'm holding off on making any assumptions though until we see how it works. In the mean time, I'm racking up the achievement points. I suspect they'll really come in handy later.
Solid write up, and grats on the Guest Post. Guild leveling is something I'm definitely looking forward to. :)
Aislinana Mar 4th 2010 3:24PM
Guild levelling DEFINITELY looks interesting, don't get me wrong here! The implications towards things like raid kills makes me a sad panda though. :(