Arcane Brilliance: An argument for raiding as a frost mage

- Fact: Mages are the sparkliest class in the game.
- Fact: Sparkles are awesome.
- Fact: Warlocks have poor personal hygiene and generally smell funny.
Hey, mages! Let's have an argument.
Well... maybe not so much an argument per se, because no matter how you slice it, an equally geared frost mage is going to do less overall DPS than a fire or arcane mage... but we'll definitely be having a discussion.
Here's a general format for how this discussion will take place:
- I will present my reasons why raiding as a frost mage is viable.
- You will then tell me why I am wrong.
To your first question, I would say, "yes, you're right. But in preparation for writing my forthcoming Frost 101 column, I have been toying with a secondary frost spec, and finding it a great deal of fun." To your second question, about the whereabouts of my trousers, I would say stop watching my webcam. Really, you knew what you were getting into when you clicked that link.
For the first time in a very long time, recent patches have brought significant upgrades to the raiding viability of the frost mage. Since the first raid breached the door of Karazhan way back in early 2007, frost mages have found themselves overshadowed by other specs in terms of damage output, and each successive raid, patch, and expansion found them falling farther and farther behind their mage brethren. It wasn't long before frost became known as the PvP tree, and rightly so, because frost mages were best at that aspect of the game, but simply could not compete on the PvE side of things.
This is still, for all intents and purposes, the case. For over three years, bringing a frost mage into progressive raid content was a fairly taboo prospect. But things are changing:
- Water elementals became permanent with the application of a glyph.
- Deep Freeze was given a massive damage component versus raid bosses.
- Frostbolt's spellpower scaling is being increased.
- Brain Freeze will trigger a Frostfire Bolt as well.
And thus the argument will always go. Spec A does (x) DPS. Spec B does (x-1) DPS. Take spec A.
So why bring a frost mage when you can bring an arcane or fire mage? (And my apologies to frostfire mages. Blizzard stopped supporting that spec pretty much the moment they introduced it.)
Reason the first: The DPS gap is closing.
It's still there, certainly, but it's much, much smaller than it has been. The above-mentioned changes have made the gap small enough that now the choice to bring a frost mage no longer hampers your raid's DPS. Arcane and fire still rank higher, but frost is now, for the first time since the end of vanilla WoW, in the mix. The most recent PTR changes promise to make the situation even better.
A straight-up damage buff to frost's primary nuke, Frostbolt, is a fantastic place to start. And by incorporating the occasional Brain Freeze-triggered Frostfire Bolt into the rotation (a vast improvement over Fireball for frost mages), the situation becomes even better. Now if only we could find a way to get Ice Lance involved somehow...
I realize that saying frost isn't as bad it used to be isn't much of an argument, but I've never been a big fan of the whole min-max mentality. From a hard numbers perspective, arcane is currently the DPS king. Frost is not. This is true. But we're at the point now, where frost has drawn close enough that the choice is simply no longer black-and-white. The bottom line is this: Given the choice between a decent arcane mage and an excellent frost mage, I'd now take the excellent frost mage without hesitation. Previously, the conversation had to go something like this:
Raid organizer #1: Well, we have a mage spot open. We can bring Jim, or Dave.
Raid organizer #2: Let's see...Jim has threat management problems. He tends to stand in things that kill him. Also, he's a racist.
Raid organizer #1: Yeah, but Dave's a frost mage!
Now, you take Dave. It isn't even a question. The gap is too small to worry over numbers. There are a lot of quality frost mages out there. They know their class. They understand their roles. And now, your guild can use them. You can bring the best mages you have, not just the ones who went to Elitist Jerks and copy-pasted whatever the "optimal" spec happened to be that day.
Reason the second: Survivability
The very thing that makes frost such an attractive PvP choice is also of underrated value in a raiding environment. Frost's ability to throw up a quick Ice Barrier in between themselves and a massive incoming blast of splash damage often spells the difference between a live DPS and a dead one. Or how about the ability to throw up two consecutive Ice Blocks, removing debuffs and avoiding death twice in a short amount of time? Which would you rather have in your raid group? The arcane mage who bites it 20 seconds into an encounter, or the frost mage who has the tools to survive?
There are a great number of encounters where the simple ability to keep the DPS alive for a few more seconds can spell the difference between a wipe and victory. It's always a good thing when your DPS can find ways to keep themselves alive. It takes a bit of pressure off your healers, and allows your DPS to stay higher, longer.
Reason the third: AOE
It isn't going to be useful in every encounter, but an AOE snare is going to be fairly awesome in some of them. Frost mages have excellent AOE capabilities, making them fantastic to have around for trash pulls, and the CC/AOE potential of Improved Blizzard could prove very, very valuable in certain boss encounters.
Reason the fourth: Kiting
Frost mages might be the best dedicated kiters in the game, pound for pound (with Glyph of Frostbolt removed, of course). Put a frost mage on Darnavan during the Lady Deathwhisper encounter and watch him complete the quest for you. Any melee class that's ever been led around by the nose in PvP by a frost mage can attest to the fact that when it comes to kiting, frost is unparalleled. Any encounter that calls for a dedicated kiter is made tremendously easier when a skilled frost mage is involved.
Reason the fifth: Threat management
Frost mages have low threat for one reason: a significant percentage of their threat is being generated by their pet. Their ability to manage threat is significantly better than that of fire or arcane mages, who must rely upon talents to lower all-around threat. This means more time spent putting out DPS, and less spent doing things like casting Invisibility or Ice Block.
Reason the sixth: Shut up.
Seriously, I'll bring my frost mage because I like my frost mage, so cram it. How's that for having a discussion?
Frost is fun, pure and simple. And with the DPS gap closing so swiftly, it's just not absolute anymore that an arcane mage will be better. If I'm a frost mage, and I'm good at my class, you want me in your raid.
Also, no mage is better at killing warlocks than those of the frosty variety. That counts for something.
So, Frost mages, are you finding spots in your guild's progression raids? Or are they still taking Jim and his racism?
Editor's Note: There was a scheduling error that originally published this post at 2pm EST Friday March 5th, 2010. We've corrected the error and re-published this edition of Arcane Brilliance at it's usual Saturday time. It's all the fault of those Warlocks, true story.
Filed under: Mage, Analysis / Opinion, (Mage) Arcane Brilliance






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
poissondemer Mar 5th 2010 11:56PM
Mr. Belt, I do believe I love you.
As a very frosty mage that's rapidly closing in on 80 (and therefore raiding) I was (am?) dreading the shift from frost to arcane. Yucky talent re-speccing bleck.
In the PVE world other than raiding, Frost has been my best friend. Since I've gotten really good at the spec, I rarely ever die out in my questing adventures and my dps is great (I suppose this is a personal standard). Nothing like killing something before it even gets to you! =D
I hope more will read your article! Throughout some of the BC raiding I dabbled in, I felt like the dps that was always left standing. And an alive dps, does more damage, thank you very much!
I hope I won't have to change my class because I really, really, really like being frosty.
(PS: Where can a seek help to convert my warlock boyfriend to our side? ;-P)
Jamie Mar 6th 2010 3:51PM
We love you Mr, Belt, oh yes we dooo!
sccorp.sc Mar 6th 2010 4:54PM
I WOULD love you, if only I could get close enough to cannibalize you. =/
WaRLoCk PriDe
Shay Mar 6th 2010 4:54PM
"Raid organizer #1: Well, we have a mage spot open. We can bring Jim, or Dave.
Raid organizer #2: Let's see...Jim has threat management problems. He tends to stand in things that kill him. Also, he's a racist.
Raid organizer #1: Yeah, but Dave's a frost mage!"
I read this out-loud to my wife and tried desperately to explain why this is hilarious, to no avail.
athens Mar 7th 2010 6:38PM
Dear Mr Belt,
I read your columns out of boredom, and normally laugh a little at each one. Most of the time, the information (like most info on wow.com) is just basic common sense, or something that has been talked to death for days/weeks already. I have a question for you. How far have you progressed in ICC 25? What hard modes have you done in Icc 10/25? How many days after release of the Lich King encounter did you get your king slayer title?
While I don't think every has to be hard core, I do think people have the right to be. I think everyone should be able to raid. Having an optimal spec, min/maxing etc isn't required to raid, but if you are in a guild that requires that, then don't be upset when you don't get in. You know what they want, and you are there to provide it. Join a more casual guild, that has no spec/dps requirements.
Enjoy the game and have fun. (Whatever you think fun is)
bira Mar 6th 2010 12:44AM
1. DPS gap is closing, yes. However, on its current incarnation. It still falls behind fire, and much more behind arcane on live server. On some fights of current ICC content, especially hard modes, DPS is very crucial. Therefore, it really does not justify bringing a dps that can do more if he just spec differently.
2. That is the perk of frost. You can survive better. But again, in most ICC fights sans hardmodes, you're only dying because you can't avoid fire and green oozes thrown at you. And if you really do need that much self-preservation cd, there might be either something wrong with you or the healers.
3. No one cares about how awesome your damage is on trash, cause it really is pointless. Even in those cases where you need heavy AoE, Frostfire still trumps Frost.
4. Why waste a dps on the add when a tank could easily handle it?
5. See point 1. You have low threat cause you don't do enough dps.
6. There's nothing to discuss here.
All in all, none of your points actually succeed in justifying bringing a frost mage to the raid that does inferior dps, have unnecessary self-preservation talents ( unless the raid healer's are really bad ). If you are a mage that have the raid/guild prioritized, you will spec whatever is best for the raid. And currently, it's anything but frost.
Rich Mar 6th 2010 1:50AM
Are you saying then that Rogue performance isn't built around having to pop evasion/feint occasionally? Or Pally's using the IDDQD button? Or to take it further, that Warrior tanks shouldn't ever have pop Last Stand or Shield Wall?
In a perfect world maybe. The dps keep pace with the tank's threat, the healers uh, heal. But I think you missed the point. Would you rather take an Arcane Mage that always stands in fire or Frost Mage who moves out of the damn way?
Some fights are a DPS race, yes. But Dead DPS is No DPS. And player skill trumps spec.
KoreanBBQ Mar 6th 2010 4:26AM
As a raid leader and a tank, the latter doesn't really matter as much; I would rather take a DPS with constant dps that survives the whole fight, over one that has high dps for the first 1/2 of the fight but then dies and does none for the second 1/2.
Heroic Modes are all about high dps. But, DPS surviving 'til the end trump that. It helps healers immensely if a DPS could survive without a heal at a moment when healers are pre-occupied, say moving away from something or towards something (aka Festergut).
Thomas Mar 6th 2010 7:17AM
To Rich
No doubt you would take a frost mage who moves out of the way over an arcane mage who doesn't. But one of the arguments is that if the frost mage switches to arcane he would become an arcane mage who moves out of the way.
I find that if a payer is good enough to learn one spec well and manage it with learning the encounter, it would not be too much hassle to learn how to play a different spec.
In a clutch dps situation, the move from frost mage to arcane mage might be the difference between a wipe and a win.
Every argument I have seen about specs is that a great player of spec A will beat a poor player of spec B
This is no argument at all, It is just stating the obvious. The main thing that matters is you have as many raid buffs as possible, next is player ability, but ability is multiplied by spec potential, why have a lower multiplier?
Marloe Mar 6th 2010 2:30PM
sometimes though why should you expect someone to respec from something they love into something they don't like at all or as much? I do agree that dps is always important but I also think if bob pays his subscription fee every month and plays wow for the escapism from his real life issues etc, then let him be in what he likes, let him maximise his dps as much as he can, let everyone else do that and occasionally remember that raiding is still part of the overall experience...a game. I hate arcane, it is so dull to play as and not fun at all. I play in fire and will never respec for anyone as I do my job and I do it as well as I can. Spec how you want, do as much dps as you can and be a responsible raider and everything is fine ;)
Tomatketchup Mar 6th 2010 2:56PM
As a guy who has absolutely have no idea about mages at all, I'm gonna go with Marloe.
Wasn't the point of this game to have FUN? There's nothing wrong with frost, if anything, there's something wrong with the raid leaders if they kick you for not having the optimum raiding spec.
Razortooth Mar 6th 2010 2:59PM
Don't down-rate someone's post because they disagree with you... it is a discussion after all.
The Scarlet Mathematician Mar 6th 2010 3:38PM
@Razortooth
He wasn't downranked for disagreeing. He was downranked for being a jerk. Note that Thomas was upranked even though he made essentially the same point.
@Thomas
How dare you bring reasonable discussion into this!
Rem Mar 6th 2010 3:45PM
Lol IDDQD, Doom ftw.
MazokuRanma Mar 6th 2010 3:51PM
Down-rating isn't necessarily a measure of a post's worth, it can also be a measure of reader's views. He obviously isn't trolling, so in this situation his down-rating is showing the opinion of the readers who disagree with his point but aren't going to leave a comment. I do wish sometimes that there was a way to mark a comment down for disagreement without making it difficult to read. A second down-ranking method could be added specifically to gray out troll posts. The system would still be abused, but I think it would help.
Relevant to the topic at hand, I agree with Mr. Pants in that generally there's no reason not to take a good Frost mage in most situations. It's really all about your guild and play-style. If you're in a heroic mode progression style hardcore guild, maximum DPS trumps playing the spec you prefer. Of course, if you're in a guild like that you likely knew that going in. For people in more casual guilds doing normal content, there's no real justification for making them switch specs. A frost mage of sufficient skill will be of enough value to assist the raid. Really, it comes down to if your guild wants you to switch for more DPS you either suck it up and go arcane or look for a guild that better fits your 'I spec for fun' style of play.
Alden Mar 6th 2010 4:05PM
"Don't force me to spec for top dps brah... I like frost"
Cool. Don't expect me to invite you to my raid then, mk?
Seriously. Why would any raid leader take someone who willfully chooses not to do more dps (i.e. not help the group as much) because he/she doesn't like that spec (i.e. my personal preference trumps being a team player.)
Yes, you pay your $15 a month to play how you want. But the other 24 people in your group do also... and you are not a more special flower than them.
Do your part, spec fire or arcane for raiding.
Dual spec whatever the heck you want for farming, fishing, pvping, soloing old world stuff.
Antoniax Mar 6th 2010 4:10PM
I can't believe people downrated you. You addressed each point clearly and correctly... Are there just that many mages who read this column that have no idea what they are doing? After reading every comment in this thread it seems that many mages think that playing frost in a PvE environment requires a measure of skill and it really doesn't. In addition, playing arcane and/or fire only takes slightly more effort (and I raid as an arcane mage in a 6/12 heroic ICC 25 guild - I'm fairly certain I know what I'm talking about). Face it - our class is easy to play in raids and if you're good at WoW you should be playing arcane because it does the most dps. If you play anything else you are letting your team down.
Eveleaf Mar 6th 2010 4:33PM
I agree with Bira and don't see anything particularly jerky about his post.
I think a distinction has to be made between "farm" raiding, and "progression" raiding. With farm raiding, bring whatever spec you enjoy the most. You'll probably down the boss either way, so have fun with it. But when your raid is working on progression, you really do have to max out your abilities. That little bit of dps increase does actually spell the difference between downing the boss or wiping over and over. And when you are wasting 9 (or 24) other people's time, I think you have an obligation to do your best, and not just what you personally consider the most "fun."
At least until the 30% buff goes live, anyway.
NeoPhobos Mar 6th 2010 9:07PM
"Reason the second: Survivability
...
Which would you rather have in your raid group? The arcane mage who bites it 20 seconds into an encounter, or the frost mage who has the tools to survive?"
Your comment, Mr. Archmage Pants, has absolutely nothing to do with why you should bring a Frost Mage over an Arcane Mage.
The only thing that actually matters in your statement is that the arcane mage you mentioned is a complete moron. Any sane player would not die 20 seconds into a battle. And if they did die that soon, the answer isn't bringing in a spec with more survivability; the answer is bringing in someone who knows what they are doing, regardless of class/spec.
thebitterfig Mar 6th 2010 9:45PM
bira did exactly what Mr. Belt asked him to - disprove why frost is an inferior raiding spec.
i think bira does miss the point of #2, in that a fair number of frost's tricks are actually handy. i keep reading about how frost mages are able to stack unchained magic higher on sindragosa, and they have their squirter to keep dps on the boss in the meanwhile, for a smaller loss when they do have to stop.
to that end, the water elemental can be handy in a few other situations, where it can be left on the boss while the player has to do something else, like run from marrowgar. that said, there are also fights where players get buffs which pets do not.
i think another point worth mentioning is replenishment. sure, there are a lot of classes which can provide the buff, but particularly for 10m raiding, it is another class which can. it then lets your hunter go marks, and your warlock go demo, and so forth. however, the issue is largely moot in 25m raiding. while we're on the issue of raid buffs, if you need the 5% spell crit debuff on the boss and are getting a mage to do it, you have to compare frost and fire damage, and frost isn't quite as far behind fire as it is behind arcane.