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3-12-2010 @ 9:30AM
As a guild leader that has faced similar problems in the past (both with healers and DPS) I can sympathize.I have to side with the leaders' opinion of, "if the healers can't to X, then they definitely can't do Z, because Z is X plus Y."Just as the players often get upset with "why aren't we even going to try it??" the leaders are upset that the players apparently can't see why trying it is an exercise in futility.In guilds where player skill ranges widely; the leaders have an exceptionally difficult job trying to keep their best players while not totally alienating their worst players.Often the best solution is to forsake all 'exploratory' and 'experimental' type ventures and just stick to the easiest boss available and work at it till you get it.
3-12-2010 @ 10:18AM
Players are always excited to try something new. They'll try harder to break that wall. They'll not try harder, however, if they're always in the same place doing the same thing. Why try harder and fix what you're doing wrong if it's working?I've seen that happen in the past.Example:A group has weak ranged dps. However, thanks to the good melee dps, the bosses are being killed. Now that group is faced with a boss that relies heavily on ranged dps. They go to the boss and wipe because of the lack of dps. The ranged dps have to try harder and to do that they'll have to check what they're doing wrong(rotations, movement, ...) After a while they manage to down that boss and, the other bosses are falling a lot easier. It happened to me back at lvl 70(in that case the problem was lack of hit on the ranged dps but the basic idea is the same).
3-12-2010 @ 10:15AM
We have an issue like this with a prominent role in our guild. There are a handful of people who simply cannot play their class. As a casual guild that raids, we can't exclude them from participating, but I have to wonder, Where do we draw the line? The fact is, their participation is disparaging 9 or 24 others. The wipes at their hands are preventing us from having an awesome time in the game. We've tried to help them on numerous occasion, and they are either too casual or too inebriated to care. I think it's our charter as guild members to help those holding us back to excel so that we can all succeed, but if that help is going nowhere, I personally would like to see tough yet necessary decisions made -- for the good of the guild.
3-12-2010 @ 10:22AM
Being able to down BQL is no precedent for Dreamwalker. My guild has killed Dreamwalker-25 four or five times, but we probably won't kill BQL until Sunday or Monday. BQL is a huge raid damage fight, yes, but it's also a coordination fight. If your guild fails at grouping up for the red laser beam or you've got dpsers who stand in shadows, then you're not going to win. Healers can only compensate for situational unawareness to a point.Dreamwalker takes a lot of healing, but it's not as dependent upon how well your raid pays attention. As long as they can think, "oh, hey, kill the big skelly thingy burning the whole room" and "don't stand in circles" you've already got a pretty good chance at getting through it. As a matter of fact, if your dps is good, bring an extra healer or two. Get a couple of pallies to learn how the portal works, nail down a couple of raid healers, and threaten to kick your priest if they don't use GS on the boss. Should you do Sindragosa if you can't do Putricide and BQL? No.As an aside, why aren't you guys working on Putricide first? At least in my guild, Putricide was our wall. Everything after Putricide felt totally achievable. lol.
3-12-2010 @ 10:32AM
@GalestromI've seen your predicament too before. To me, the easiest solution (for 10 man at least) is to assign teams of regulars. You can put the cream of the crop in one group to put your best foot forward. And put your not-so-cream of the crop in another (or multiple other) group(s). They may not like it, but it ultimately leaves the responsibility up to themselves as to how far they get.
3-12-2010 @ 1:10PM
A sign of 'weakness' which unfortunately many guild leaders and MMO players in general have. Rather than seeing it as a game in which losing has no meaning whatsoever, there is too much focus on the chances of winning and where the biggest profit can be obtained.It's a shame to see things come down to that in MMO's, the challenge isn't allowed to be there. Whether it's dungeon runs we're looking at on which people get denied because their gear is "too low", whilst in reality meeting the gear level the dungeon was originally intended for, or it comes down to raiding where victory is to be considered questionable.Way too quickly imo it gets passed upon and many remain disappointed. The element of fun is just completely discarded and thrown out of the window.It'll be interesting to see what will happen to guilds like this the day a raid finding tool would ever get implanted. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them shall fall or lose a big amount of members as more and more players will begin looking for the more challenging raids elsewhere which the guild doesn't offer, and regular runs shall be skipped.
3-12-2010 @ 1:36PM
But it's not always the easiest. in Ulduar our RLs refused to try Freya because we were having issues on Thorim. On 10 man if anyone dies when you're split up it's usually a wipe since each group is so small... and we were just having issues. So we pounded at it and pounded at it... for 3 weeks. We killed Freya the first night we saw her, on the 5th try. We could have been farming her for 3 weeks... but noooo.... The issue here is that your officers aren't even willing to spend a night trying and when you face a night of pounding against some boss you're having issues with people will often lose focus - a new boss, even one that's harder, will refocus people and it will make the feel listened to. When it's just "No, we refuse to try that" people feel abused and they eventually think "Now, WHY am I doing this when they won't listen to me?" and then they remember it's not a job... and they don't have to show up.The other issue is that we're 15 months in... it's hard, when you face weeks or months of wiping and have done everything else in the game to death, to remain enthused. Officers who won't listen just exacerbate that problem.
3-12-2010 @ 1:33PM
" Just as the players often get upset with "why aren't we even going to try it??" the leaders are upset that the players apparently can't see why trying it is an exercise in futility. "Refusing to try a boss once is an exercise in futility. You won't know if your efforts are in vain or not until you actually try it. You might even down the boss on your very first attempt!
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