[1.Local ]: Screaming over Hellscream's Warsong

While some players are hailing the Icecrown Citadel "tugboat" buff (Strength of Wrynn/Hellscream's Warsong) as a great equalizer that will open up endgame content to the player base at large, others have spotted holes in its implementation. The most common complaint is that doing the encounters the hard way yields no bonus at all: no achievement, no title, no recognition.
Mennoknight: The issue ... is that there is nothing showing if they did it the hard way. Most people take kill shots with the UI hidden, so the buff will not show.
Our group wanted to do it "the hard way" because we could. But the more you look at it, there is no reason NOT to keep the buff. There is no in-game tracking of it, and while you could technically take a screenshot of every boss kill without it, who's to say you won't go and kill everything with it one week and then kill the next week (with much better gear and perfected kill strats) without the buff? (5% doesn't matter, but this will become easier in later weeks.)
Additionally, none of the other groups are trading in the buff, and we decided as a realm not to count it in the progression threads, so there is very little reason not to change it. This could be EASILY solved by a simple track (feat of str, no points) with something along the lines of "Achieve your first kill of Marrowgar without using the Strength of Wrynn" (because other kills don't count past the first). Just something in game to track the kill, so you don't have to jump through hoops to get it tracked. You don't need to give better loot, more badges or anything. Just the simple tracking would be enough to get groups like mine to run without the buff.
More reader perspectives on the Wrynn/Warsong buff, after the break.
Gizen: I do not believe you'll be able to choose the strength of your buff, no. Blizzard hasn't said anything one way or another, but judging by how it currently works, it looks like it's either full strength or not at all. This seems especially stupid when you consider that some people are hypothesizing that the DPS requirement for the Lich King on heroic difficulty is too high to be doable without at least the 5% buff, so slower guilds will essentially be forced to fight him with a 30% boost and will never even get the option of fighting him the hard way.
Has your ICC raid been taking advantage of the buff? How do you feel about it -- do you feel a little disappointed, as if you're "cheating," or do you think the buff is a welcome way to open up more content to more players?

It was a great week for crowdsourcing at WoW.com this week. At press time for this post, readers of WoW Rookie had contributed nearly 300 comments towards translating common PUG terminology. Meanwhile, over at The Overachiever, Azeroth's fishers were sharing their secrets on cross-faction fishing.
Ravdoss: "For Alliance, fishing in Orgrimmar is more troublesome. The two pools of water in Orgrimmar are in the Valley of Spirits and the Valley of Honor." It is, especially if you have no stealth ability to get to those fishing spots. A few things I've done to minimize being seen: fishing by the late of night when most foes are fast asleep; Noggenfogger Elixir for the shrink-dink 10-minute effect (plan on buying more than a few in Gadgetzan); cast from a seated position (it works just as well as standing); turn OFF the title to your name, because nothing sticks out more than some huge honking title with your name on one end.
There's little coverage to be had, and I won't give up my choice spots (just in case any Horde happen to be reading.) ;) Happy fishing!
artifex: Don't forget you can tag along with a For The Alliance raiding party. They provide great ironic cover for the Diplomat. Have yet to get Old Crafty, however. :(
Henrah: You can also fish whilst lying down. Just type /lie and then fish away. This works great behind the rocks under the fountain.

If Residue Rendezvous has been giving your ICC raid fits, try these reader suggestions.
Wallert: A little creativity can go along way. Our guild's not so hardcore; we have Festergut on farm but rarely beat the enrage by more than 20 seconds, so a couple of deaths usually means a wipe. We got the weekly to get the debuff off both him and Rotface. We killed Rotface first since he gives us more trouble, downing him after a few wipes. We're having major lag issues, but make our way over to Fester. It goes bad and we lose 3 people to Pungent Blight, causing a wipe. After the groans die down, I ask everyone to check their quest logs -- everyone completed. Demonic Circle outside the door. :)
125 frost badges for the guild made me very popular that night. Of course, being a evil lock, I was just trying to dodge repair bills, but I managed to convince them I'd ran away for the good of the guild. ^^
Andy_C: If this works as you suggest, you're a friggin legend! I guess there's nothing stopping a lock from porting out intentionally after getting the debuff to ensure the quest is completed (usually guaranteeing a wipe, but that might be worth it)? Or am I missing something?
On that note, would a pally bubble or DI do the same thing?
crschmidt: DI/Ice Block/etc. remove debuffs. Feign Death and Evasion both work. I would not be surprised to see these things fixed in 3.3.3 to require you to actually defeat the boss with the debuff or something, but there's been no notice of that yet.
vazhkatsi: Note that we did this a week ago, and you should definitely do it in this order. We had a 10-man with 3 horrible DPS but no hope of replacing them. So we did this so we could do the quest without finishing the bosses off. However, I had a huge repair from us failing 7 times 'cause we either died too fast to get a spore and he ran through the door to swat me, or on Rotface I got an ooze as I was running away.

Goon Squad: harmless annoyance or dirty, rotten scoundrels?
Throckmorton: When I first started playing World of Warcraft back in 2006, I was on Mal'Ganis as Alliance. It was pretty bad. Horde on that realm outnumbered us 3 to 1 and consistently I would be ganked, the mailbox would be covered in Goon Squad alts, the flightmaster in Ironforge would be dead, et cetera. But the fact is, even though I was one of the people who they (and guilds like them) were being "cruel" to, I really didn't mind. It gave me something to do for an hour and took my mind off the monotony of leveling. It was funny. I realize where you are coming from, and it's great you are sticking up for these people (I realm transferred during BC), but it's really not that bad. People need to relax about WoW; it's not like your character is going to lose all his stuff and you have to start from square one. He will still be there when you log back on.
Brett: "Emergent gameplay"? Is that what we're calling weapons-grade jackassery these days? I can't get as exercised about this particular example as the crap these douche nozzles pull in the non-instanced world -- hey, if you want to screw your own raid, feel free. But this isn't some phenomenon that demands a newfangled descriptor from "scientists": it's nothing more complicated than online vandalism by egomaniacal children (in maturity level, if not in age). If these guys weren't playing WoW, they'd be measuring their e-peens by writing malware or hacking web sites. They're a boil on the ass of the user base.
How's your own ass feeling after reading about the Goon Squad's antics?

The lore fanatics were out in force after PC Gamer magazine divulged more details coming in the Cataclysm expansion. Garrosh? Cairne? Everybody has an opinion. Meanwhile, others raised distrustful grumbling about the effects they fear the changes will have on game play.
Radiophonic: So tired of seeing my talent trees "retooled" -- please, just give us a break. I think the only Mastery System here is players' ability to adapt to irritating changes made by game developers.
RobynM: Surprisingly, a lot of this put a damper on my enthusiasm for Cataclysm.
- Number 20 is worrying if they install reputations for Worgen and Goblins, depending on how their starter areas are built. If they're on an inaccessible phase, like the DK starter zone, that'll deprive everyone working on the updated versions of Ambassador of the Alliance/Horde of a significant source of rep.
- Numbers 27 and 30 are troubling. Yeah, they're laden with dramatic conflict, but I'm not sure the devs realize just how unpopular Hellscream is already. Trust me, there's going to be a lot of unforeseen consequences that the devs are going to have to deal with.
- Numbers 31 and 46, particularly in conjunction, are going to make significant portions of the player base -very- unhappy. From the looks of them, it appears that one of the potentially few areas that could be solo-friendly is a PVP zone. Not everyone raids, and even fewer want to be ganked while they're questing, which is why they're not on PVP servers to begin with.
- A particular comment in regard to 46 -- they put the very best sources of a number of high-end resources in Wintergrasp and it still didn't become, by their own admission, the World PVP hub they were hoping for. Maybe that's a clue.
- As for 31, I'm just going to ahead and say it. I'm not thrilled that we're only getting five levels so that the devs could concentrate on yet another huge pile of content I'm never gonna see.
The WoW.com Weird E-mail of the Week
Name: [Redacted]
URL: Medical Alert Systems
Subject:
Will WOW work with medical alert systems. I would like a straight honest answer to this. No double talk. I have just signed up with WOW. I am interested in your reply. Also you could possibly have a new customer. I have no idea what you want (yes-*no) by "remember your info?"
Honestly, if you're looking for a medical alert system, we recommend VuhDo or Grid. We also suspect that you might want to look into beefing up your log-in practices, including checking into an authenticator. Safety first!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, [1.Local]
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
omedon666 Mar 14th 2010 3:12PM
I give up
omedon666 Mar 14th 2010 3:51PM
(A HA! Taking out the math symbols helps!)
I think blizz is finally realizing there is a serious lack of "safe ramp up" for the aquisition of raid-specific skills. We all know gear doesn't equate to skill skill, but where does one GET the skill at a rate not imposing on the lockout time of experienced raiders, which I refuse to do? The answer is not "lower tier content", because the WOTLK emblem system was in response to blizz not wanting anyone to get subjected to "LOL Y 4 U run naxx when ICC has the loots? go die noob", and I think this sound aversion will continue into Cataclysm. I think the answer will be random raids, I think they will bend that far. I don't think they will have lockouts.
I predict that Cataclysm 10-man regular will be that safe ramp-up, that they will be like a "double sized 5-man". I don't think we've seen the extent of how far Blizz will bend to have every area be accessible to anyone that wants to see it. I mean, look at the 30% ICC buff, there's proof right there. You think that's crazy? I don't think we're done yet.
I am not a raider, but give me a safe forum to learn the skills to NOT be a hindrance to your "real" raids, and I just may become one.
SamLowry Mar 15th 2010 12:05AM
What he said!
I would really really really like to do some raids, but it's hard enough getting into a random raid for the weekly quest (even considering they're set in instances "serious" raiders never visit anymore, and therefore won't affect their lockout status), but getting into a random ToC raid seems nearly impossible. And a random ICC raid? You're dreaming, fool.
nicholas.sodano Mar 14th 2010 3:26PM
by evasion, you mean vanish
N-train Mar 14th 2010 3:44PM
No offense to RobynM here, but I really think you're underestimating the dev team here. Not everything that WoW has ever created is perfect, but I guess I have to hope that they take into account some of these logistical things that you're upset about, I don't think they're going to leave us so high and dry on all of this.
-I want to think they're well aware of the fact that the Goblin/Worgen starter areas are completely phased and that burning thru those starter quests for the Abassador achievement is a commonly used strat (I did it myself). Maybe the rep gains will be higher for Runecloth? Maybe there will be some gob/worg specific quests mixed in with the new world, we just don't know.
-I think they're also well aware of how no one likes Garrosh. You have to remember who designed the character in the first place. These guys aren't stupid, if they wanted Garrosh to be likable then they would have made him so. If anything, this adds some interesting inner-conflict to the Horde, especially considering the debacle the undead have gotten themselves into.
-As for the world pvp-zones, I think they realized what did and didn't work in WG, and its not like they're going to copy-paste it into Cata. We don't know what kind of incentives, rewards are going to be involved in Tol'Barad, or really ANY details at all besides that its a combination of WG and Queldanas. As for the questing element, they've added about 10+ new zones for 5 new levels (and most of those zones cover 2-3 levels), if you don't want to be ganked while questing, then its not like you don't have any other options.
-And as for focusing on end-game raiding, you may have noticed in Wrath that the dev team did a whooollee lot to allow non-raiders and casuals to see content. They basically made every old tier of content extremely obsolete so you didn't have to burn thru 3 patches' worth of raids to see Arthas; you can walk out of heroics in a week with fullt9, which is EASILY enough for the first wing of ICC. Plus the Hellscream Buff is only MORE incentive for casual raiders to see content, especially when its at its max. I want to think they're going to do the same thing in Cata, not just screw a huge chunk of the playerbase that they just got all excited.
TL/DR: Since we really know very few logistical details on a lot of these new Cata features, let's trust the dev team to be well aware of these things and reserve harsh judgment until we know more.
kitowski409 Mar 14th 2010 4:06PM
couple things:
I'm not sure if the buff is available in Heroic modes or not as I am not there yet and haven't really paid to much attention to them either. It seems though if they were taken out of heroic modes it would be pretty win win. People get to see content in normal modes (both 10 and 25) and if people beat it on heroic mode, the simple achievements for beating it on heroic mode could be your badge for never having used the buff.
In general though it seems silly to ask for some kind of recognition for doing something with or without some kinda of mechanic. There was no tracking of this before achievements came out and I'm sure people still tried different ways off going about killing a boss to make it interesting. If you don't want the buff on just take it off, it's a challenge to yourself and that should give you pride. I can understand wanting something for your effort but then is it about the challenge or just another thing to add to the "my e-peen is huge and ever expanding" collection
lastly
@RobynM
sounds like you just like to QQ about things, there not even out yet give em a try.
Especially the talent thing, I would be pissed and not play the game anymore if blizzard just up and stopped trying to make the game interesting, which is hugely based on your spec.
Quasimofo Mar 14th 2010 4:05PM
I saw someone spamming trade the other day looking to form a 10-man Naxx raid and demanding a 5k GS and a whisper with the KT achievement for an invite. Truly classic.
SR Mar 14th 2010 5:03PM
I see his point in this, actually. What I'd like to say is this: If you're gonna QQ about how EASY it is to run a few heroics, do a few 10-man PUG groups, and eventually go up the content, all within a month's worth of casual play, don't QQ at all.
I mean, seriously. I had my hunter ding to 80 4 months ago, and he was Pugging ToC 10/25 easily within the first 3 weeks, and was already seeing ICC 10 by the 4th week. Sure, I understand that people likes leveling, and I have plenty of alts making their way to end-game content, too. But don't cry about stuff you're never gonna see if you won't put any effort into it.
If you're playing a SOCIAL game with SOCIAL INTERACTIONS (Heroics, raids, WG, etc.) and you downright REFUSE to learn your class/optimize it, or make excuses on why you shouldn't, you are not ONLY hindering yourself. You're hindering those around you. If you spend a few days to learn your class mechanics, and figure out your own talents/rotations instead of copy-pasting from a good player, your personal DPS should increase, healing will be more efficient, and surviving as a tank should be easier.
In other words, considering others and putting in your share of the work is what enables you to see end-game content. There's no excuse to be bad.
SR Mar 14th 2010 5:03PM
Er... this is a reply to the first page topic...
Lantokk Mar 14th 2010 5:23PM
@TonyMotorola Yeah, I agree. I can't say I care a whit how somebody else achieves a goal, only how and whether I achieve it.
@Quasimofo I don't mind that somebody might want to throw together an überrun with whatever criteria they want. What gets me is that so many people buy into some greater "need" to have to run only with other privileged or elite players. Rarely does Blizzard make anything more challenging except when fixing a bug. I still had some level 70 pieces when I started running Naxx. Better gear certainly made it easier but it was never necessary. I'm so tired of the anti-casual, anti-noob, elitist attitude so many raiders exhibit. Perhaps there should be an elitist battlegroup, no toons without the Epic achievement may transfer there. No new toons may be created and leveled there.
Oh and guild and raid leaders, if you're going to broadcast some gear score requirement, the least you could do is identify your standard. Gear score according to whom? A calculator? An addon? be.imba? Wow-heroes? They all give VERY different gear scores because each uses a different proprietary set of algorithms to calculate a score--because raw gear score is nothing but a sum of item levels of currently equipped items, which barely informs anything
Redielin Mar 14th 2010 6:08PM
@Cataclysm hate:
This is an MMO. It is supposed to be about social interaction. That's why we have raids, pvp, even auction houses and capital cities. You're supposed to feel like you're part of a community. Part of that is balancing, rebalancing, and constantly trying to improve the game. If you don't like change, and you don't like playing with others, then there is content in wow for you. Its just that they want to encourage people playing with other players, so they're going to focus on creating stuff you can do with other players - raiding, pvp, and so forth.
There will be more than enough solo content. Even once you hit 85, there will likely be tons of quests and achievements you can solo, and doing 5 mans via the dungeon finder is much easier for someone who is non-guilded to do.
I don't think you can say "most players are not level 80, or most players don't do raiding". Especially if you look at sites like WoWcensus. Most servers, by their account, have more 80s than anything else.
WOW is a game of leveling, raiding, and pvp, all of which encourage social play. If you don't have the time for raiding, that's understandable. But this is a social game that is trying to reward group play. If you don't like that, perhaps you should go play a different type of game.
Chet Mar 14th 2010 6:12PM
I don't see how this is different than passing a gear check encounter because your gear improved, or your guild's raids benefiting from a class buff that came out in a patch. Nobody would say "well, it only counts if you killed Arthas with the Patch 3.2 versions of hunters, DK's, and paladins" or whatever.
Blizz giveth, Blizz taketh away. If you didn't get server first, who cares whether you finish with the buff or without? If you've needed all this time (weeks, months even!) to get your raids together and learn the techniques and skills to finish these encounters, you don't really have any claim to being better than the people who are benefiting from the buff.
Avan Mar 14th 2010 6:43PM
"Brett: "Emergent gameplay"? Is that what we're calling weapons-grade jackassery these days? I can't get as exercised about this particular example as the crap these douche nozzles pull in the non-instanced world blah blah blah"
Douche nozzle? What a hilariously ridiculous term. HEY GUYS, LOOK AT THOSE OTHER GUYS WHO ARE SPRAYING A CLEANING DEVICE EVERYWHERE.
Really, it's laughable how much fail the term is. GG, Brett! First time I had to refer to something as being fail!
SamLowry Mar 15th 2010 7:41AM
(Slow clap)
Yeah, really great etymological analysis there. Yet how different is "douche nozzle" than "douchebag"? Perhaps "colostomy bag" might be even more appropriate?
dodgeballer2005 Mar 14th 2010 6:56PM
I actually like the buff. What else to get devs to tell you "We want to make everyone overpowerred" like Varian or Garrosh busting through Icecrown's walls like the Kool-aid man and using a Battle Shout that kicks the crap out of your current warrior's shouts?
Yeah, it's that awesome. Also, endgame can and should be enjoyed by everyone. They designed these levels to be played, not to bar certain players who want to experience it.
dodgeballer2005 Mar 14th 2010 6:59PM
And as an addendum, it's considerred a training wheel for the casuals, I will admit it. But here's the thing; Training wheels CAN BE REMOVED. When your guild feels ready to kill the bosses without the buff, that the right gear HAPPENED to drop for the raid the previous week, they can just tell their leader to say bye bye and experiment on bosses without the buff. It's that simple.
Ebon Plaugebringer Mar 14th 2010 7:52PM
I really don't understand this "It's my $15 a month so I am entitled to see all the end-game content" mentality that some people have. Here is the thing if you attend college are you entitled a 4.0 GPA because you pay tuition? Also, I don't get is why call people who want to work for it epeen flexers and elitists.
I do understand that casual players want to see all the content, and for whatever reason they can't, maybe you have the lack of time or you're struggling to find a decent guild that can do it.
However, most causal players forget that MMOs isn't really that kind of genre that can be completely experienced in with minimal time and effort. ((I know what some of you are thinking, but please hear me out. Also, please have an open mind.)) I'm not saying it can't be done, but doing something like killing Arthas takes some time and effort.
Clearing raids isn't meant to be like clearing five mans. Raids are supposed to provide a challenge that you and 9 or 24 of your closest friends work together to overcome. Downing a hard boss is supposed to be rewarding in its own right. After struggling since the plaugeworks opened up, when my guild finally downed Professor Putricide on 10 man last week we felt like we did something we were giddy the rest of the night. We felt proud of our [The Plagueworks (10 player] achievement.
Blizzard has done a great job in opening up the endgame. It's no longer this exclusive hardcore-only club that it used to be. Run heroics, get teir 9, PUG ToC and VoA for better gear or join a casual raiding guild, learn your class, and have patience during progression raids. You WILL wipe--a lot, but that's apart of the experience. Blizzard opened the door, you just have to step inside
As for this ICC buff, I kinda wish blizzard rewards players something a little extra for not accepting the buff (also, I wish it would buff pets too >.>). Other than that I have no problems with it, I don't get why people do care so much.
Morbash Mar 14th 2010 11:56PM
You are on the money here Ebon.
Why don't they just remove the buff from heroic modes then eveyone will be happy.
More casual players, realistically, don't really have much of a show (even with the 30% buff) of doing heroic versions, and why would they even want to...if its only about seeing end-game content......or is it really just about getting the same loot as better/more committed raiders...looking at some of the posts I sometimes wonder.
The more serious raiders can still hit up herioc modes and get better loot, an achievment or a vanity mount or whatever, so they can be (quite deservedly) proud of doing something the hard way...and maybe show off a little to boot...whats wrong with that eh?
SamLowry Mar 15th 2010 7:47AM
The devs said they were getting tired of creating content that only 5% of the players ever got to see, so now they're doing something about it.
Deal with it.
Phil Mar 15th 2010 8:25AM
One stupid analogy deserves another
Would you be happy to go into McDonald's and pay your $10 for a Big Mac and Fries only to receive half a burger and a few fries and be told "sorry you needed to be here earlier like those other guys if you wanted a full meal"
The buff is optional, all "buffs" are option, so are talents and gear.
So you want an ultimate title:
Successfully defeat the Lich King on heroic mode while no one in your raid has any talent points or buffs or has any item equipped.