Lichborne: Rune cooldowns, tank mastery, and Cataclysm

The Blues actually gave answers to these questions, answers that managed to both answer the question and provide a whole new level of speculation and questioning. On the question of the new runic power bonus, Ghostcrawler and Eyonix revealed that death knights would find their rotation less constrained by the global cool down and rune cool downs, and that changes such as that would make the runic power generation more desirable. On the tank front, they're actually being deliberately coy about what they have planned for death knight tanks, but they at least seem to know the issue's on the table.
This week, I figure it might fun to take a look at these statements and mull over some possible ways they might implement them.
Global Cool down Solutions
Solution: Permanently Convert All Runes To Death Runes
This solution would completely remove rune types and make all 6 runes death runes. This would save a few talent points in just about every DPS build (except possibly unholy, depending on which patch and what phase of the moon it is). This would also make it easier to weave in emergency buttons, and allow more flexibility on what attacks to use when, instead of waiting for a specific set of runes to refresh.
On the other hand, it would more or less remove at least 1 strike from each spec, and Blizzard seems to want people to push more buttons in Cataclysm, not fewer. It could also lead to a return of the old days of Icy Touch spam or some other one-button-push spec, another thing Blizzard's wanted to avoid.
Solution: Empower Rune Weapon Cool down Nerfed
Empower Rune Weapon is a pretty simple way to unleash yourself from waiting on rune cool downs. One hit of the button, and all your runes are back. If we cut the cool down on the button, we could see the button pushed more often to provide a more dynamic rotation.
That's the theory, at least. In practice, it would probably become just another button to pressed every few rotations for a very small extra burst of damage, creating a even more complicated rotation for the death knight, and one perhaps not truly disconnected from rune cool downs. It feels like the solution here needs to be a bit more dynamic.
Solution: More Skills on Runic Power
This could be considered a bit of a less drastic change that converting all runes to multipurpose "death rune" status: Simply put more abilities on runic power. For example, you could put Icy Touch and Plague Strike on runes, and your big Frost/Unholy attacks, and leave everything else on runic power. This would provide a sort of "choke point" for the big basic damage skills, then allow runic power to become a bit more fluid instead of being a zero sum game, as you may have to make specific choices about what to spend your runic power on, and when to spend it. This would also give frost a use for all that extra runic power they'd generate from their Mastery.
Of course, if runic power becomes too central to the class, it may throw off the balance of the whole death knight resource system and turn us into a weird type of quasi-warrior. Will Blizzard really want to be so drastic as to reinvent the wheel when it comes to the death knight resource system?
Tanking Mastery Solutions
Solution: Tie it to Frost Presence
When it comes to choosing how to give tanks Mastery, the easy way out would be to simply tie it to Frost Presence, much like non-critability will be tied to Frost Presence in Cataclysm. It would also allow DPS death knights to more easily do some off-spec tanking for 5-mans without changing their spec or getting dual spec, thus (at least in theory) lowering dungeon finder queue times for everyone. They're already doing a similar thing for the druid feral tree, wherein one will have different mastery bonuses if one is shifted into Cat Form or Bear Form.
That said, they sound like they don't want to keep it that simple. Switchable masteries might plain make death knights a bit more versatile than Blizzard would like, and would certainly make protection warriors and paladins a bit sore. Blizzard's hinted they have something a bit more complicated in store for us.
Solution: One Dedicated Tank Tree
Here's a solution that they've arguably already used for dual wielding: Just dedicate one specific tree to tanking. This would admittedly make things pretty simple: If you want to tank in raid-level content, you pick your tank tree. The other tank classes already have to deal with this, so it's nothing new. Blood's play style isn't that different from Unholy's anymore, and with blood providing the flavor of that extra healing, it could probably be converted into a tank tree easily enough.
Of course, you'd then have to strip the tank cool downs out of the unholy and frost Trees, giving them fewer buttons to push (something Blizzard seems wary of doing), and you'd need to redistribute some of the DPS talents from the blood tree. Of course, if you're going to shuffle the trees so drastically, Cataclysm seems the perfect time to do it. Then again, this would more or less spell the end of the great death knight experiment. We'd be a pretty "normal" class, with one two-handed DPS tree, one dual wield DPS tree, and one tank tree. Again, we'd be looking a lot like warriors with a slightly different superficial flavor. I'm hoping Blizzard keeps the varied flavors of the death knight trees intact.
Final Thoughts
I'll be honest here, the most direct answer is probably the simplest: We don't know. For that matter, even Blizzard may not know, or rather, may still be trying to finalize the system. Whatever else is going on, it does seem like a bit of an exciting time to be a death knight. If the changes are half as dynamic and far reaching as they sound, beta testing Cataclysm should fun. Here's hoping we see those beta servers go up soon!
Filed under: Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Henry Mar 16th 2010 9:27PM
How about making Death Runes have their own rune 'slot' instead of overlapping with current runes?
Doing that could open up entirely new dynamics for Death Knights, but would probably shoehorn them into taking the Death Rune generation talents.
Mike Mar 16th 2010 9:37PM
I think tying Frost Presence to different Mastery bonuses make the most sense. I think it could actually extend to having every tree have different Mastery bonuses depending on Presence, a mechanic they could call being special to Hero Classes.
Kal Mar 16th 2010 9:44PM
I will be thoroughly depressed if they change blood to a tanking tree and make frost dps. I love blood dps, and really would not look forward to relearning everything to become a frost or unholy dps. Not that there's anything wrong with either of those, but I've tried all three, and blood is definitely my favorite.
Here's to hoping that those Blizzard geniuses will figure out a way to keep us as the 'tank and dps in any tree class', I'm really interested in seeing what they decide.
disdrgfreak Mar 16th 2010 9:55PM
Truth be told, Unholy and Blood are extremely similar in single-target dps. While Blood spams Heart Strike with the Death Runes it generates from FU's, Unholy does the exact opposite, generating another theoretical FU pair from its Blood Runes. Asides from that, a permanent pet, and better AoE, they're really the same.
Frost, however, is by far the most interesting and fun. Watching for procs and seeing massive HB's makes me smile.
Anyways, I'd hate to see the DK 'uniqueness' of sorts, in that it has three trees that can tank, taken away. And honestly. Why Blood for the tanking tree? Frost strikes me as the true one, especially with Blizz's further emphasis on avoidance, which was the main intent of Frost.
Colerejuste Mar 16th 2010 11:42PM
I'd be a sand panda if they nominated any of the DK trees as "The Tank Tree". I really like that you can choose what type of DK you want to be, and tank or DPS in any of those trees.
For progression raiders, Frost might be the way to go, given that it might be easier to manage tanking theory craft for avoidance than the self healing approach that Blood takes, but for everyone else that isn't following the herd, Frost Presence and a def capped outfit seems to be enough.
pyro_818 Mar 17th 2010 8:09AM
Yup, I have to agree - here's hoping they keep each DK tree able to tank and DPS, it allows for a playstyle to suit everyone, really. Want to dual wield? Go Frost. AoE more your thing? Try Unholy. Want more single target damage and less strain on your healers? Use a Blood spec.
The fact that each tree can be used for a very specific style of tanking AND DPS is the best part of the class, and I'd be extremely sad to see it go; not that I believe Blizzard would ever do that.
glyakk Mar 16th 2010 9:57PM
I like the idea of all runes being death runes, but i think the problem of preventing button one button mashing could be solved by giving each strike a short personal cooldown so you could not spam icy touch, etc.
Robbydog Mar 16th 2010 10:01PM
Personally the great "DK experiment" can't come to an end soon enough for my liking.
As much as I love my DK, half the class development of wrath seems to of been on DK's. Other classes have had to suffer with sub standard things for too long as a result:
1) Priest DPS, sucked worse than TBC in wrath (till it was eventually sorted, long overdue)
2) Prot Warriors, still suffering
3) Sub Rogues, "the tree you put 25 points in if you want to PVP" (GC's words...)
And a great many others, Blizzards time can be spent better elsewhere!
Especially with the impending mess of stats and talent reworks the Cataclysm is bound to bring!
siebrenf Mar 16th 2010 10:23PM
Adressing your GCD solutions: The most viable option you noted would be more Runic Power spells, give us more options to choose from. However, current rune-requiring spells and abilities give us a rotation, and Rpower build-up. Keep those. Instead, give DKs NEW spells that require Rpower.
Most imortantly, bring back Unholy Blight as an AoE buff. I was in love with that spell.
In addition: if you want more runic power, you have to use runes. How about gve DKs a talent in each tree (deep down), adding one extra rune of associated colour. This is speculation, not a suggestion. I'm not here to advocate any "Improve-my-class!" posts.
Adressing tanking solutions: The idea of tying tanking mastery to frost presence would be solid, but perhaps too solid and, indeed, considered OP.
One easy solution to this would be to take tanking talents in each tree, which give obvious tanking buffs and on the side also state "Changes mastery bonus to +parry" or something tankish. This would also allow Blizz to give different types of masteries for different specs in both DPS and Tanking. (DKs could get up to 6 different mastery bonusses this way)
CyrusII Mar 17th 2010 6:46AM
I'm throwing my vote with the tanking talents that change your mastery bonus. That way they preserve the design allowing each tree to dps or tank.
With the 5/5/5 basic tank spec you'd get all tank mastery bonuses.
Mecer Mar 17th 2010 8:54AM
Sorry guys but there are some defining features as to the way Mastery has been shown to work that you're forgetting.
1) The Masteries are tied to the number of talents in the tree, regardless as to where they are. Druids are a perfect example of this where they gain bonuses to both bear and cat regradless of where the points lie. So having 6 different bonuses depending on if you take Toughness, Anticipation, and other 'tanking' talents wont work. More to the point, how do you define a tanking talent? Sure there are the obvious ones, but how about imp Icy Touch? Improves IT damage, but it also reduces the attack speed of those afflicted with Frost Fever (and why most DK tanks take at minimum 5/8/5 as their base spec).
2) Now comes the problem with tieing tanking masteries to Frost Presence. DKs retain ALL their abilities regradless of presence they are in. Unlike Druids (which is what you're basing this on) we can still use all our high DPS abilities when sitting in Frost Presence. So as you're suggesting, we could sit in full DPS gear pop frost presense and gain all the survival of the tanking talents? Dont forget that Prot Warriors just finished getting nerfed for being too good in PvP, this idea just screams Over Powered in the PvP realm.
3) "Mix the Masteries" Unfortunately since gear is primarily the same between tanks, and between DPS, a mixed Masteries setup would make us Jacks of all Trades (and master of none). This would sideline us for the tanks with full tanking masteries and DPS with full DPS masteries.
Im sorry guys, but all the evidence points to a single tanking tree. Does it mean the other two trees would lose there cooldowns? Nope. Why? well look at the Frost and Unholy cooldowns. They either boost Str or a flat damage boost. Now look at Vampiric Blood, it is compeletly a Defensive cooldown with no Offensive bonuses. I truely do believe we'll see Blood become the tanking tree. If you look at the top DK tanks on your server, you'll notice that 75%+ are all Blood. You tank as Blood for progression for the 3% stamina, the higher single target threat (because yes, Trash doesnt mater), and the abundance of selfheals.
If you guys are adament to tank in other specs (and Im sure some tanks will) not only will the Frost Presence change allow you to, but using a 'DPS spec' will produce higher threat and allow you to burn through heroics faster. I just think that come raiding to tank you'll have to spec a specific tree (not unlike it is now in ICC).
Sorry to be a buzz kill
siebrenf Mar 18th 2010 12:27AM
Eurhetemec seems to grasp the idea I was suggesting, perhaps I should clarify further:
The moment you take this currently undefined "tanking talent" your mastery bonus will switch to a tanking version. Which bonus is granted still depends on your MAIN tree.
Your point Mecer, that there is no true tanking talent is debatable, but lets not forget the whole talent tree will be redisigned.
My whole point is that each tree should/could get a tanking-switch. Picking more of these switches won't mean more mastery bonusses, only add the talent bonus ALSO found on the switch talents.
Example:
Going 5/8/5 would mean you get the frost mastery bonus.
If one or more of these talents is the tanking-switch talent, you get the frost tanking mastery bonus becausethat's your main tree.
Ok, just to be sure none misunderstand, this could be an example of tanking-switch talents:
*Blood: 5% armor, also changing mastery to tanking version (of your main tree). 1/1
*Frost: 3% parry, also changing mastery to tanking version (of your main tree). 1/1
*Unholy: 2% magic absorption, also changing mastery to tanking version (of your main tree). 1/1
Kal Mar 16th 2010 10:35PM
@disdrgfreak
I was kind of wondering the same thing about Frost, I was asked by a lot of different people why I tanked while specced in Blood before deciding to try out DW Frost. From what I can tell it's the general census that Frost is the tanking tree, and anyone doing it differently is doing it wrong. (Something I definitely do not agree with, but oh well)
disdrgfreak Mar 16th 2010 11:18PM
Noooo. Frost, and especially Frost DW tanks, on my server, Illidan, are actually put down and told to respec. Seriously. Many people view Frost tanks as joke, except for Heroics. Blood is considered the superior raiding tree due to its self-healing and high EH and threat generation, however, Gravity @ pwnwear puts frost threat generation higher than Blood's. Go figure.
staffan.johansson Mar 16th 2010 11:49PM
It's probably a common misconception due to the way Warriors (and to some degree druids) work.
I'm not an expert on warriors, but with a few exceptions it seems to me that Warriors have their stances and specs fairly strongly connected: Fury mostly uses Berserker stance, Arms uses Battle, and Protection uses Defensive. Similar thing with Druids: Resto are in Tree form, Balance in Moonkin, and Feral in Cat/Bear.
Death Knights don't have that connection between presences and talent trees. Both Blood, Unholy, and Frost tanks tank in Frost presence, and both Blood, Unholy, and Frost DPS use Blood presence (the +15% damage is generally better than 15% haste, though that might change in Cata). But someone who is used to the way it works for a Warrior might expect it to work the same way for a Death Knight.
Clbull Mar 16th 2010 11:08PM
How about this for an idea
1) Remove Threat of Thassarian. Give all Strike skills the ability to hit with both weapons baseline. Forget the idea of a DW-exclusive spec like what Blizzard have done to Frost since 3.2.
2) Make Blood strictly a DPS tree. Buff Blood Strike in Blood spec to replace the current HS, and rework Heart Strike to consume Runic Power and be a massive RP dumping nuke ability. Add other things such as a damage buff to Blood Boil for extra damage so that Blood can AoE DPS. Blood Masteries will increase your Haste, damage increases from Blood Presence and decrease the amount of Runic Power your abilities use by a cetain percentage.
3) Make Frost strictly a Tanking tree. Frost Masteries will decrease the amount of damage you take in Frost Presence, boost the amount of damage that you Parry, and increase your Parry chance, as well as boost Threat. Reimplement the unblockable/unparryable element of Frost Strike but make FS deal craploads of Damage and Threat but have a high RP cost, like a DK Shield Slam. Move many of the DK tanking talents in this tree.
4) Make Unholy strictly a utility/PvP tree. Add a 20% healing debuff to Scourge Strike, and an ability which lets you unleash all of your Runic Power for a huge amount of damage, as well as higher crit chance reduction against players whilst in Unholy Presence.
disdrgfreak Mar 16th 2010 11:29PM
1) No. I like the idea of a dw-only talent tree. Threat of Thassarian is what makes Frost DKs so cool ;/. Plate rogue anyone?!
2) Okay, so you want to allow all three trees to dual-wield yet you want three different RP dumps? Not too bad of an idea, I guess though. Bloody Strikes or whatever already buffs BB by 30%.
3) like ive said before, I like how DKs have three (unholy is ehy) talent trees that can be used for tanking. I don't want something as cut and dry as a pally's holy/prot/ret trees. Also, FS is already a hardhitting skill with good instant threat generation for a relatively high RP cost. (but all RP abilities seem costly, except for RS and AMS really) I do dislike the fact that it can be avoided.
4) If you were a dev and you got blizzard to implement that, I'd literally squeal.
siebrenf Mar 17th 2010 2:01AM
This would make the DK lose all its uniqueness: Blood is ment for 2H melee, frost for DW and Unholy is SP, atleast that is the basic idea. ON TOP of this you can add the tanking layer, THAT is why the DK feels so much different (and better imo) from the Pala and Warr (I can't speak for druids as I havent played any).
Blizz should keep the DKs emphasise on being all round in every spec. Reading comments on this blog you can just see who is a Frost DK, who bathes in Blood and who migh favour Unholy, it just adds character to the class that everyone can choose for themselves. When I played my DK I was an avid Unholy tank, and loved every aspect of it, I PvPd in frost and did great (remember this was some time ago).
It's a HERO class because a DK can do anything in any spec, fear and tremble!
jestoni Mar 17th 2010 12:16AM
hi when do the next patch come the wow cataclysm
Eurhetemec Mar 17th 2010 12:21PM
I'm afraid you missed what seems to me an extremely obvious solution to the tanking dilemma:
Have a certain talent change what the Mastery does.
E.g. have, say, Blade Barrier, in addition to it's current effect, turns the +Damage aspect of Mastery into +Survivability (all the time). Every DK Tank specs Blade Barrier, DK non-tanks do not spec Blade Barrier. Of course you could make it a different talent, or have a talent in each tree or whatever (you don't need one in each tree, though, that'd be sloppy), that's just an example.
This solution simply trumps the other two solutions, if Blizzard don't want DKs to have Feral-like flexibility - It means that a DK can't switch between DPS and tanking "on the fly" in serious situations, they'd need to separate specs, just like a Warrior or Paladin. Yet it also avoids the extremely lame solution of forcing DKs to acquire a tanking tree. I have 43 days /played on my DK, it's my favourite WoW character, and I am not kidding when I tell you that I would quit it and not look back if Blizzard made Blood the tank tree - I'm, sure there are others who feel similarly about the other trees potentially being made the tank tree.