The art of pricing

But markets should be protected from undercutters!
Balderdash. Markets are a place where people can sell their goods for any price they want. You're describing collusion between sellers to reduce "lost profits," where every time someone wants to undercut with a new auction, they do so by the smallest possible amount.More often than not, all your competitors will have the same cost that you do, and as soon as they see you commit to an auction, they'll undercut you right back. If everyone is knocking a copper off the next highest auction, they only way to undercut successfully is to try camp the AH and make sure you're always the competitor who has visited most recently. Needless to say, this is a colossal waste of your time, and you would probably make more money per hour doing argent tourney dailies.
The only way to effectively sell your product in a market with a lot of competitors is to undercut by more than just a trivial amount. You need to make it just cheap enough that your competition is less likely to undercut you, but expensive enough that you're still making money.
Undercutting ain't easy
Bear in mind: posting an auction that has a deposit is a commitment. If it returns unsold, you lose a bit of money. If enough auctions come back, you can conceivably lose a lot of money. Be aware of the deposit costs for your items. It's based on the vendor price and auction length. If you're competing with people in a market where each item posted is a risk of several gold, you'll have to be much more careful about the amount you list at the same time. If, however, you're working on something like enchanting mats or scrolls that have no deposit (or glyphs that have virtually no deposit), it costs virtually nothing for people to cancel all their auctions and relist everything below your price.How about a price fixing cartel?
You may think that the simplest and most profitable answer is to come to a gentleman's agreement about how to undercut one another. Price fixing requires people to make sacrifices of personal profits to further the group's profits, and get a thinner slice of a thicker pie.Unfortunately, an individual will do much better when they break these rules. You see, the most profitable course of action when approached by a group of players trying to fix prices is to:
- go along with it and agree to play by their rules
- follow the rules on the characters they know about
- create an alt with which to completely ignore said rules, stealing the largest slice of a larger pie
- replying to their indignant tells and letters with chuck norris jokes
Volume matters
Another common misconception is that people will buy the things they need, no matter how high the price is. There is no such thing as inelastic demand. As prices go down, the number of items bought always goes up. This is true for every type of market out there, and figuring out whether selling more items at a lower cost is more profit than selling less items at a higher cost is an important part of knowing your business.The universal answer to undercutters
If you're being undercut and you don't want to undercut back, don't waste time politely asking your competition to stop undercutting by so much, buy them out! The reality is that many people do have a bad understanding of supply and demand, and will undercut no matter what. If you know for a fact that the demand for your goods outstrips the supply, instead of canceling and relisting your goods or waiting for the competition's auctions to be bought, buy them yourself and relist them. Make sure to send them a thank you note. Sometimes that will get them so riled up that they post a whole bunch of stock under your cost, saving you the trouble of crafting them yourself.(Image courtesy of szlea on Flickr)
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Economy






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
Rhoan01 Mar 17th 2010 1:07PM
As always, this is advice worth every copper. I still shake my head at the deposit costs for my leatherworking goods, while my wife cackles at the absence of them on her enchanting goods.
Tooay Mar 17th 2010 1:10PM
I nearly always undercut, and more than once I got a few whispers telling me to "cut" it out (teehee), and even some whining in trade chat. These people don't realize that the low prices I put in the auction house will sell fast, and they'll be the lowest sellers once again. They don't get that they could easily buy my stuff and relist. They don't get that for the same farming they have to do, I get a lot less profit. They also don't get that by undercutting, I'm not trying to steal their market, I'm just trying to get rid of items that cramp my inventory faster.
It's a fire sale!
Benjamin Kellner Mar 17th 2010 8:11PM
The problem with your theory is that the items you sold for less, could have been their items being sold for more. Once your items sell, there is less demand. If demand reaches zero before the higher auctions sell, the higher auctions risk not selling during their list period.
Heilig Mar 17th 2010 8:44PM
The other problem is the large number of people who do exactly what has been suggested in Basil's other columns, which is utilize the Appraiser tool of Auctioneer to auto-list and auto-undercut. People set it to undercut by 1 copper and don't check what the price is. They just scan, auto-list, and disappear. When someone undercuts by 25% on a high volume item, they don't get bought out and have the price come back up. The relist-bots just relist at the new, lower price, and suddenly there are 50 auctions at the new price.
Something that was brought up last week and definitely bears repeating is this: Without a qualitative or perceived difference in item value, the only thing that differentiates your product is who comes first in the list. That can, and should (by intelligent people, at least), be accomplished with very small undercuts. You are NOT going to sell all 50 of your flasks just because you put them up cheaper. You're not. You're only costing yourself and everyone else selling flasks money. Do what you want, but understand that what you are doing is not going to work the way you think it will unless you are prepared to stay at the AH and buyout all the people who come in five minutes later and undercut YOU by a penny.
loop_not_defined Mar 17th 2010 10:35PM
This. I usually list my stuff at 80-90% of the lowest value, not because I'm a jerk, but because I don't want it coming back to me and taking up space I'm TRYING TO FREE UP.
Seriously...if an item's lowest listed price is around 20-30% more than the vendor's price, I just vendor it. I'm not in the mood for "gaming" the AH.
loop_not_defined Mar 17th 2010 10:39PM
@Heilig,
I regularly post Northrend mining and herbalism supplies every other day or so. It's just stuff I came across while doing dailies, or my profession cooldown stuff. I post them at prices that undercut the lowest average price by quite a bit.
When I come back the next day, all my crap sold, and the lowest average price is THE SAME as the lowest average price from the day before. I *never* see this phenomenon you speak of, where undercutting borks the entire market. Never.
hedgehogaj Mar 18th 2010 12:19PM
It depends how many items you're listing. I've seen this happen fairly often with ore prices dropping by 30%-50% because someone puts up 10 full stacks at a very low price, then everyone tries to undercut it. If it's only one or two, it most likely won't effect anything.
Your server may also just have a number of people like myself who will buy anything that undercuts the average price by more than 20%
Blacksword Mar 17th 2010 1:10PM
I wish more people would buy me out when I undercut them.... Id rather take a 5% loss and sell the item then have to relist it and pay that 5% to the AH. Though I have gotten a few nasty notes in the past, I normally just laugh and ignore them. At the end of the day the gold is in my pocket.
Im sorry if you don't like that I see my items cheaper then you sell yours. Thats the nice thing about a lfree market system.
Nick S Mar 17th 2010 3:35PM
I get hate mail on a pretty regular basis. "You're ruining the glyph market," stuff like that. I'm often told that I must not have taken any economics classes.
To tell the truth, I haven't, but it's easy to see that winning price competition by large-margin undercutting is a viable strategy - have these people never heard of Wal-Mart?
Blacksword Mar 17th 2010 4:13PM
Heh, I know. I normally reply to those kind of emails with "Im not ruining the market, im cutting into your profits, which i surprisingly have no problem with"
Alan Falcon Mar 17th 2010 1:10PM
Good article. I kind of wonder how the "premium" auction house is going to affect the market since people will find it much easier to be the last person to have posted an item if they can post while not logged in.
Basil Berntsen Mar 17th 2010 1:24PM
I kid you not, that keeps me up at night. I refuse to play any game more than a healthy amount, but if my competitors will automatically win when they choose to camp (and are given a bed-side device to enable this behavior), I'll always lose.
Alan Falcon Mar 17th 2010 1:57PM
I guess there's also the idea that someone will be able to buy your Auctions from their bedside before someone has the chance to undercut you.
Basil Berntsen Mar 17th 2010 2:17PM
If they do make the AH mobile, I hope they go whole hog and eliminate the largest benefits from camping. All they'd have to do for that is go to an open orders system.
icepyro Mar 17th 2010 3:33PM
I'm actually not too worried about this. Think about this, I use addons to keep up with pricing, history, etc. These addons are bloated from kepping up with multiple scans and trends. They scan my mailbox to gather more information on what sold and what expired. I don't even like to log in to my bank alt from any computer other than this one because I don't want to gimp the statistics by checking the mail or whatever and my habits dictate that that character do so upon log in. Some people keep their whole supply on the AH, so to undercut would involve canceling auctions (or buying out the undercutters), somehow checking mail and posting that again. I wouldn't want to get that left out of my statistics very often, and I'm not sure others will either.
On top of this, we don't know if (and I kind of doubt that) Blizzard will give us a fully open API so that apps/programs can be made to do the addons functions. Even so, any meaningful statistical data would bloat the software more than a reasonable scope. Also, a fair chunk of my data is still on my computer and not the handheld device.
I personally feel the only real use this will have will be to see if someone is undercutting you or to see how many stacks of something you have up. For undercutting, will you really just go old school and not use an addon anymore just to out compete? Then again, I guess there really isn't much math to looking at the market and selling for less. If that is your only method of market, however, then I bet you are not really selling much. Besides this begs for camping on a scale that you are better off 'doing argent tourney dailies'.
If you find a good deal and buy, then what? You can't craft and post immediately. Even if you just resale, you have to manually look at prices and sell as if you didn't have any addons. How do you know a good deal if you see one?
I can think of ways around all this, but they are rather involved and I don't see it being easy. If you are willing to go that far, please tell me you are making money in the stock market.
tl;dr: AH addons exist, are popular, tend to have the biggest footprint, and are rather involved (mail scanners, etc.) for a reason, and I don't see anyone making a fully functional AH app for a while, if it even becomes possible. As such, camping bedside will not be as prominent nor as easy at it sounds at a glance. You're better off logging in than doing enough to cause alarm to the market.
Tom Mar 17th 2010 1:16PM
If someone is undercutting another seller by one copper or one silver, I don't buy from them simply as a matter of principle.
Mutak Mar 17th 2010 1:25PM
I do that too when i notice it. I don't care about those piddling sums. If you really want me to buy your stuff, give me a real price cut.
Basil Berntsen Mar 17th 2010 1:25PM
Most people who only use the AH as a vending machine never even check that kind of thing.
(cutaia) Mar 17th 2010 1:30PM
What principle would that be?
Tom Mar 17th 2010 1:50PM
Not a specific principle, I suppose, but I feel insulted when people think that one copper off of another's price for Primodial Saronite or stacks of Cardinal Rubies matters.