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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Suicide threats
by Robin Torres 
Mar 19th 2010 at 11:00AM
Warning: This week's topic is very much on the serious side and has nothing to do with WoW except that it occurs in-game a lot. Because it brings up some sensitive subjects and is very close to home for me (as you will see), I may be very heavy-handed with the moderating. I would appreciate it if you kept all of the comments constructive and non-trollish so I don't have to. Making fun of me, Robin, is ok though. I'm already laughing at me, so you can only laugh with me.
Drama Mamas, I recently went to ToC5 with my RL friend, and in the party there was a mage. A very chatty mage. I humored him and chatted away. Today the guy whispered me and talked about wanting to do some instances etc.. Nothing out of the ordinary, I guess. I think he said something about not having any friends as well. But later the same day, he started talking to me about how he hates his life because he has no friends, and his girlfriend just broke up with him.. He actually started talking about wanting to kill himself.
I've talked to the guy for maybe 15 minutes total (except for that one quick instance run), and he's spilling his guts to me..
It seemed legit, so I talked to him and tried to explain that there is always a light at the end of the tunnel as long as you keep your eyes open. He didn't share the same view. Apparently, the guy has no friends at all in real life, and his girlfriend dumped him because she fell in love with someone else. Anyone can agree: that sucks. It really does.
I really have no idea how to handle that sort of situation, so I tried advising him to talk to some friends, or maybe a relative or something. But he really didn't want to see it that way. He's done at school in about a year, and after that he can move wherever he wants and start with a clear slate.
The reason I'm writing you is that I want to know what would be the appropriate thing to do -- if you think I handled it OK. I don't want the suicide of some teen i don't even know on my conscience. So I tried to help him to the best of my abilities. I'm sitting here with mixed feelings. I'm not a psychiatrist. Should I be giving this guy advice at all? All I tried to do was to cheer him up... didn't really work though. Signed, Nameless Rogue
Drama Mama Robin: I wish I could say that yours is an unusual situation, but unfortunately this kind of thing happens all too often. Whether bipolar, clinically depressed or just going through an extreme angsty phase, people of all ages will go online to seek the comfort of real people, without having to get dressed and leave the house. These Depressios find it easy to talk to friendly people on the internet, but you can imagine how hard it is to broach the subject of suicide to a total stranger face to face in a coffee shop. Just like online cheating, mentally ill people (either temporarily or suffering from a permanent disorder) have gone online for support during their rough times. Since the beginning of college message boards decades ago, people have been chatting up total strangers with the goal of sucking them into their own drama.
Let me be clear: Suicide is selfish. Suicidal threats are selfish and manipulative and actually carrying it out is extremely selfish. These people who off themselves by getting hit by trains are the most egregious. They mentally scar the train driver at minimum and kill many other people in the worst case scenario. But those who just quietly kill themselves in seclusion still harm other people. Let's say they really don't have people who care about them (so often not true), there are still the people who discover them and the people who have to remove their corpses. Look at what happened when Andrew Koenig hung himself. His friends and family had the whole world looking for him for days, asking people for help via everything from Twitter to more traditional publications. The real tragedy there was all of the living people hurt by his choosing to end his life.
Do I sound harsh? I'm going to out myself here. I am bipolar. I've been going through cycles of severe depression for almost as long as I can remember. For me, it's like everything I have ever done wrong, every person I have ever hurt, every embarrassing moment -- they all come knocking at the door, reminding me of every incident. It is beyond overwhelming. The only thing that kept me from ending it all at certain points was that I had two cats who I didn't feel had anywhere to go if I abandoned them like that. So believe me when I say I can relate to a truly suicidal person.I'll pretend to speak to Chatty Mage for a moment. It's part of the illness to make mountains out of molehills and feel like nobody loves you. Also, your friends and family come with baggage that may have to be dealt with if you go to them for help. You also may not want to burden them with your troubles -- they may have enough issues to deal with in their own lives. But that doesn't mean you have the right to put such a serious burden on a total stranger who was nice enough to converse with you online. Yes, if you go an official route, like you're supposed to do, then the authorities get in on things making life afterward even more complicated. I understand that too. But not only do you seriously affect these kind strangers you confess your troubles to, they are not qualified to help you. Neither are your guildies. Of course they don't want you to hurt yourself. You count on that when you talk to them. You use their compassion against them, pulling them into your anguish and causing them to not be able to enjoy their own lives as much. You need help. It's good that you know that. If you have insurance, get yourself to a psychiatrist ASAP. If you don't, get yourself to a mental health clinic. If there isn't one nearby or you can't bring yourself to go somewhere, call a helpline like the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. If you're not really suicidal, but just want this kind stranger to take your woes seriously, then please seek professional help anyway.
Nameless, most tips for helping suicidal people are meant for actual friends and family of the Depressios -- not total strangers who have no physical access to them. Here are some tips to help you, as an online acquaintance, deal with Chatty Mage and others like him:
- Take the suicidal person seriously: Even if you think Chatty Mage is just seeking attention, he still needs help of some kind. So treat the threat as a serious cry for help and talk to him accordingly, as it seems you did.
- Remain calm: Yes, take him seriously, but don't be alarmist. If he's really at risk, he needs to remain calm himself and not react to your reaction. Again, you seem to have done this.
- Don't offer solutions to the problems he relates to you. He doesn't really want the kind of solutions you can offer him. Your solutions are correct. Your outlook is right. But he needs help getting to the point where he can actually act. If he is truly depressed, action toward fixing things may not be physically possible for him. It will just add to the to do list that is already weighing him down. I'm sure he appreciated the sentiment behind your suggestions, Nameless, so don't feel like you harmed him. But unfortunately, you didn't help him either.
- Ask him about his professional help options. Professional help is the only solution you should offer and he needs to do it. He needs to see a psychiatrist. He or she will refer him to any other resources as necessary, but only a psychiatrist is qualified for proper diagnosis and prescribing medications, at least in the U.S. If he has insurance, he may still need to jump through bureaucratic hoops to have access to behavioral healthcare. So you can offer to help with that part of it, but only if you really want to take the time to help him. And it's very OK if you don't.
- If he seems serious about ending his life, contact a GM. Unfortunately, GMs have to do this a lot. They can track down the location of Chatty Mage and call the local authorities to come and help him. Don't tell Chatty Mage you are doing it. And don't worry about bothering people and being wrong about his commitment to ending his life. Better to err on the side of helping him and if it was a fake threat, the hubbub will hopefully deter him from doing it again. Note: If you put "suicide threat" in the subject of your GM ticket, it will be moved to the top of the queue and acted upon almost immediately.
- Remove yourself from the situation. This is the hardest part of the whole experience. If you just put him on /ignore or ask him to leave you alone, you will feel guilty and worry that you were the "final straw." But you aren't responsible for his actions, no matter what he does. So say something like this to him: "I am not at all qualified to help you myself, but I really want you to get help. After you've started seeing someone professionally, send me a tell and we'll do some instances. I gotta go now, but I hope to hear from you soon. Good luck!" and then log off.
- Make yourself scarce for a few days. This sucks, but it's for the best all around. He'll either get help or go off and find another victim or both. But stay off of the character he knows as much as possible for a while so that you don't have to deal with him trying to suck you into his drama some more.
Drama Mama Lisa: These are all sound resources and solid suggestions. I wouldn't add a thing beyond reiterating Robin's closing idea and urging you not to let yourself be sucked back into the mage's swirl of emotions. You're not responsible for being his sounding board or his soapbox. Use extreme caution replying to any additional whispers from him. You were right to be concerned, and now you're armed with more ideas and resources to respond even more effectively should this happen again.
Thanks for being a living, breathing, caring member of the WoW community. Keep it real.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 15 of 15)
Catacomb Kid Mar 20th 2010 3:36AM
Hey, Robin... if you managed to sift through 5 pages of comments, I just wanted to say I appreciated the article! Very pertinent to the social aspect of a social game. I found the article informative and helpful.
/appreciate
knm1288 Mar 20th 2010 4:56AM
It's possible that my comment will end up too far back in the comment pages to do any good but I'll try anyway.
The first thing you learn in a psychology class about depression is that you ALWAYS take suicide threats seriously. It doesn't matter if they later tell you they were joking. Suicide is serious. In class we were told to immediately contact the persons relatives/ the authorities/ mental health services. So, if anyone in game even mentions suicide I'd advise you to skip straight to Robins #5 and contact a GM.
Remaining calm and talking to the person about it are fine things to do... and honestly I don't see why you should try to avoid the person after. Personally if I was in that persons shoes I'd think, "Oh great, and now the guy I just told I was suicidal is not talking to me either. fml." Just make sure the GMs know so that they can handle it properly and then try to continue being friendly.
As to the suicide is a very selfish act bit.... uhh. Well. In concept I would agree. Unfortunately, we call things like depression "mental illnesses" for a reason. Your mind isn't functioning quite right so you're probably not going to suddenly think, "Oh golly gee, but if I kill myself so many people will miss me!"
Heather Mar 20th 2010 7:02AM
Suicide is a selfish act, that's for sure.
The problem is, when you're suicidal, you literally can't see far enough out of your hole to fully understand that what you're doing is selfish. All you can see is the hole you're in, and you can't see beyond that. You can't see a way out, and even if you acknowledge that your actions may affect others (many suicidal people can't do that, either), you're so wrapped up in yourself and your trauma that you can't really comprehend the damage you're doing.
This is why it is so important, in my opinion, to get a GM involved if someone is not listening to reason. I would rather have someone alive and angry as hell at me for getting the authorities involved, than to have someone dead because I refused to take the step to get the authorities involved.
Either way, if you're suicidal, please seek help. No matter how deep your hole is, it is NOT too deep to get out of.
randomskies Mar 20th 2010 1:00PM
/hug Robin
Nobuseri Mar 20th 2010 7:22PM
i lol'd
vern Mar 20th 2010 7:40PM
I am not going to write my opinion on the article but thx everyone that posted a comment.
This is enlightening.
Thank you very much all.
It helps.
SirFburton Mar 21st 2010 2:35AM
Looks like all my GM tickets are gonna be answered a lot quicker!
SumDuud Mar 21st 2010 4:56PM
Sorry but I agree, suicide is a selfish thing. It may suck to think of someone that killed themselves as being selfish, but imo that is the ULTIMATE act of selfishness. You are doing something that you think will end all of your problems, whatever they may be (and lets not even bring the religious realm into this), and not taking into account what this will do to your friends, family, class/work mates, pets, neighbors, raid team....
Cyalodin Mar 21st 2010 8:29PM
A friendly, understanding approach is a good start ... but seriously, unless you are a trained councillor then don't try giving any advice. Suggest that they contact someone who can actually help:
In the USA - http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
In Australia - http://www.lifeline.org.au/
I'm sure other countries have similar organisations.
Ragemaster Mar 21st 2010 10:06PM
Its always a shame when people feel the need to go off themselves for whatever short term problems they are facing in life...
To be perfectly honest our society would be better off without these kinds of people!
Todd Mar 22nd 2010 10:13AM
I agree.
Though I still do miss Kurt Cobain, I do feel better that he is no longer hurting anymore.
Sophie Mar 21st 2010 10:52PM
I know you said "be gentle" but honestly - calling a person with depression who is suicidal "selfish" is like calling a person with cancer selfish for seeking chemo. Both are trying to find a viable end to their suffering.
Furthermore, a person who commits suicide is no more responsible for their death than a person who has a massive embolism would be - both deaths are the result of an untreated condition. Maybe it makes suicide survivors feel better to blame the dead in that case, but it's wrong and it's unfair and, quite frankly, it makes me feel ill.
We've got a long way to come in treating and understanding mental illness if this is the prevailing attitude.
Anominous Mar 22nd 2010 8:10AM
As someone who has unfortuately experienced suicide (ie a close friend killed himself in my house), and as someone who has experienced the same threats online, i can sympathise with anyone in that situation. Unfortunately for the online person involved in my case, his 'threat' came about 2 months after the real thing. Fortunately his was attention seeking rather than serious, as my reaction was probably not quite what he expected. Personally i couldnt handle the situation where i played to Escape from the mind numbing events of my RL, and then had it thrust back into my face. After a fair time, and some councilling, i got a lid on my own problems. I never even tried to address the online kids issues (i believe he was 13-14), beyond a 'talk to your parent, childline (uk phone help for kids), your doctor, teacher ,someone!' - ok i was a little better than that but not much more.
I will also say that yes, suiciders ARE selfish. They dont consider anyone else, and only are concentrated on their own situation. However, neither are they usually malicious, the harm they cause is rarely intended, nor the devistating effects on those they leave behind, or even those that find their handiwork.
During my bleakest moments, i too considered it, but tbh i dont think i was really serious either. I never threatened it, and whilst i would love to say that my family got me through, thats not the case. I lost my Girlfriend, all bar one friend, nearly lost my job, and distanced myself from my family (as i didnt want them to suffer with me).
My best advise to ANYONE feeling down is to work to improve yourself. Preferably something taking concentration and effort - start with physical things - and move to more cerebral persuits after. I had some dumbbells, and the physical pain, WITHOUT damaging myself, seemed to clear my mind slowly, by allowing me to focus on something else. Soon i went from a puny armed man to one where my friend was concerned i was looking slightly odd with the development of muscles.
The other side of my recovery was my friend. He gave me a solid foundation i could get my feet under myself from. He says all he did was talk, and listen. I say he helped save me from a dark, dark place, for which i will always remember and be grateful. He had been though a similar situation, and whilst it was obviously painful for him, he gladly put himself through it to help me.
I personally have tried to help other depressed people online. And tbh it rarely works. Most online people who seem depressed, tend not to actually want to make the situtation better, just to 'let off steam' or worse play on it to gain favours 'im depressed today, want to run me through to get my mind off it?' i have heard more than once or twice. And no i dont fall for it. But ill say one thing, if your depressed, then the Real world has far more solutions and better ones than any virtual place. Speak to your friends, if they really are your friends they will help. Doctors, parents, teachers, and even helplines like the samaritans are to be used. Noone can help you if you dont reach out. And if you reach out, please for gods sake, make it someone trained to handle those requests, advise by amateurs, no matter how well meaning, can be wrong and counterproductive.
Tomaj Mar 22nd 2010 7:34AM
The one thing I'd like to note about suicide is this; while everyone says how suicide is a selfish act, most people are looking at this from the end of the would-be survivor. How selfish is it of YOU to keep someone around that (regardless of state of mind) truly feels that they would be making things better for everyone else at large? That is to say, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." that's how someone that is suicidal thinks. I know, I've been there.
That said, it does NOT make them right by any stretch of the imagination. As well though, understanding a mental illness is not an easy task, either. Many people talk to several doctors, therapist, etc., before they find someone that can really help them. Further, one bad visit can leave a really nasty taste in your mouth - again, I've been there.
The one thing that bugs me most about suicide topics is how people say how "selfish" that person is/was; you're no better. (I am not directing this at anyone specifically.). It's extremely difficult to really reason that this is the "utmost" form of selfishness. Have you taken a look at the world these days? I will respectfully disagree with the opening statements of this post, but it is never a bad idea to make sure to at least advise or suggest to point someone in the right direction.
FireStar Mar 22nd 2010 9:29AM
I tend to battle these things with logic. Sometimes the recent activities help something boil over the edge:
"and his girlfriend dumped him because she fell in love with someone else."
This has happened to me twice, both with relationships over a year or so. The way i look at it, they did me a favor and stopped wasting my time because you do not want to be with someone that's going to be unfaithful. It's unfortunate it took that long to do it, but i learned a lot in both relationships. It's hard not to have some baggage after it, but try to keep in mine what you learned. There's always another girl out there, and Nothing is 100% guaranteed when it comes to a relationship. I'm not saying to go into a relationship planning on it failing - because that's just as bad and negates most of the purpose of a relationship (besides just not being alone).
anonymousxsource Mar 24th 2010 8:58AM
I don't understand the praise Robin is getting from her reckless, sweeping (and possibly triggering) generalizations she's made on this post. Sure, these things may come up in-game, but are you to say that someone who is seriously depressed and going through a serious real-life issue, incidentally latching on to the game, as selfish and manipulative? This game serves as a release for someone people -- to get away from their sometimes crappy lives. It's to be expected that sometimes peoples' emotions may begin to just *happen*. If you don't want to deal with someone you think is being selfish and manipulative, then just excuse yourself from the conversation. WoW is not a professional environment -- sometimes people will reach a breaking point and look for people to turn to.
Basically, what I am trying to say, for a heavily trafficked site like WoW.com, considering this post was quite frankly dangerous. The last thing someone who is considering suicide needs to hear is that nobody cares about their "manipulative and selfish" attitude.
Jude Mar 24th 2010 11:51PM
This is a good article. People who want to commit suicide ARE selfish. But I'm okay with people being selfish. Encourage them to kill themselves, instead.
Lirt Mar 27th 2010 12:45AM
A thought-provoking article on a topic that is quite relevant to the online world. I don't think I've ever seen so many comments for an article on wow.com...
What I don't understand or agree with is the oft-repeated opinion that depressive people online should be shoved to "seek professional help". While I can understand not wanting to get involved with someone's emotional problems, as it can be very draining and yes, depressing for the person trying to help, the only advantage I see in talking to a professional is that they can maintain a certain distance and objectivity that allows them not to get emotionally involved in that person's problems. However, as many people in the comments have pointed out, depressed people are often unwilling to listen to plans or strategies for how they should "reform their lives", and no professional will be able to make them do that. Ultimately, it's up to Time and the person himself to get through the depression.
I'm saying this because I have been depressed at points in my life and I have gone to a psychologist. Although I guess it didn't hurt, it didn't exactly help, either. In the end, I don't know how I was able to get over depression in my life - to be honest, it was a surprise to me after I found my view of life and the world starting to shift to something more or less normal. As many studies as there have been done on depression, we still don't know for sure what causes it to begin or end.