The Care and Feeding of Warriors: But hitting buttons is fun!

Honestly, believe it or not, I'd actually like to talk about DPS today. My current raiding guild has between three and four regular tanks who show up for most every 25 man raid. As you might expect, you don't need three to four tanks for ICC. At this point in the raid's life cycle, if you have two tanks you can get through most everything except Putricide and maybe Blood Princes. (We have used two tanks and a DPS for this fight, but we usually use our feral tank for it, so three tanks.) Marrowgar at this point can be done by two geared tanks and a plate DPS standing up there mashing away, although to play it safe we usually just use three.
So last night, after tanking Sindragosa, I got to DPS on Arthas, which is fun for a warrior. (Ah, Glyph of Cleaving, you make up for the mechanical deficiencies of my class.) Then I went and did some stupid fun heroics with a warrior tank, arms warrior, another fury warrior and a resto druid who kept healing in bear form. (I know they can't cast healing spells in bear form. He'd occasionally pop out and throw a HoT on folks. It was pretty much all we needed.) So it wall all sorts of DPS warrior fun last night.
And then I went and read this endlessly exploding threat on tanking and now I have to talk about it. Why? Well, first off, Ghostcrawler mentions Monte Cook. That hits all of my nerd buttons. (If only you'd thrown in a plug for Kingmaker, Greg.) Secondly, we both hated the old Shield Block mechanic and we both hate the current Heroic Strike one.
Ghostcrawler - Re: Just get rid of dodge and parry altogetherI understand your point, but I hated old Shield Block. It was always the right button to push whenever it came off cooldown. It wasn't an interesting decision – there was no point in saving it for the right moment and no penalty for using it at the wrong time. It's okay to have some relatively spammy buttons, but old Shield Block crossed the line (and current Heroic Strike still does).
If you don't hate how Heroic Strike works in tanking, you're not tanking on a warrior. Essentially, once you've used everything else (which you will have) if you have rage it should be going into Heroic Strike. I have it macro'd so that I never have to use the ability, it's just autofiring off of several other moves, because if I didn't and I had to actually queue the ability my fingers would shatter like glass and I'd be tanking with stumps right now. Hell, Heroic Strike sucks as a DPS move, too. But at least there are times when you won't be pummeling the button as if it were the tulpa of every humiliation you ever experienced in your life.
Ghostcrawler - But hitting buttons is fun!If you don't think Shield Block is interesting enough today, that's a fine discussion to have. I'm a little surprised to see any nostalgia for the old model though. Hitting a relatively common dps button that plays into other talents and abilities is one thing. Having to constantly mash "make me slightly more survivable" is another. I'll grant you that it was fun on Illidan, but it took that mechanic specifically to make it fun.
Imagine how you'd react to this scenario:
GC: Good news, everyone! We lowered the cooldown of Shield Wall to 5 sec and balanced assuming you hit it every 5 sec.
Tanks: Um.... Thanks? Could you maybe just make it a passive at that point?
GC: But hitting buttons is fun!
Imagine how you'd react to this scenario:
GC: Good news, everyone! We lowered the cooldown of Shield Wall to 5 sec and balanced assuming you hit it every 5 sec.
Tanks: Um.... Thanks? Could you maybe just make it a passive at that point?
GC: But hitting buttons is fun!
I will be honest with you here. The second I read this, I knew it was going to be the title of this post.
Frankly, I think I'm on record as not always being supportive of Blizzard's design philosophy or goals. I don't subscribe to the notion that the development of the game is some sort of sacred cow that can't be criticized or what have you. But every so often the stars align and there is a moment where they and I become conjoined at the soul, and this is one of those times. No, Shield Block wasn't fun in the old days. No. It was not. I tanked back then too, I tanked Rag, I tanked Nef, I tanked the Twin Emps and C'Thun and the original Four Horsemen and Anub'arak back when you actually needed Nature Resist to tank him and up through Kara, Gruul, Mag, TK, SSC, Hyjal, BT, even Sunwell... no. No. No no no no no!
There was nothing fun about an ability that required absolutely no thought. Shield Block was up, you used it. The only time you ever saved it for anything was Shear. An ability that requires no thought on the part of the player is not a fun ability. We're not drinking bird toys here or metronomes. It's fine to have abilities that you'll weave into your rotation on a fairly regular basis... an arms DPS warrior is going to be hitting Overpower and Rend fairly often and not constantly analyzing whether or not he should, it's true... but Shield Block totally stepped over that line. I admit, I was used to it. We all were. But amazingly, being used to something doesn't make it good. I can still remember the first time I stepped into Kara and had to pray for Shield Block to keep me from getting crushed by Prince Malchezaar's Thrash ability. Remember Crushing Blows? Remember having to rely on Shield Block to get to uncrushable?
I'm going to admit that as a tank, I go out of my way to make sure I stay alive. I value threat stats. Indeed, I value threat stats more than most people (you will never ever see a post from me arguing that threat doesn't matter now, that you shouldn't gear for it, I've repeatedly argued just the opposite) but in the end I gear to stay alive. I gear for armor and stamina over avoidance because armor and stamina are more reliable. I'm not a gambler. Higher armor means less damage taken. Higher stamina means more damage can be taken. A streak of dodges or parries is great, but it's not reliable. Blocking an attack is fine, but ultimately a block is (currently, we all know it's going to change in Cataclysm) is functionally just mitigation with an annoying avoidance-like mechanic. Sometimes you mitigate some damage, sometimes you don't! Roll the dice!
But one of the flip sides to random abilities like avoidance mechanics is that their random nature tends to balance out with a much more potent effect. Sure, armor is always there. It always reduces how much damage you take. But if you dodge, you take no damage at all. Taking no damage at all is pretty sweet for a tank. So while I don't stack dodge, I don't avoid it, either. The idea that dodge and parry should be removed from the game is silly: randomization is what allows us to have doubt about the outcome of an encounter. Having doubt about the outcome of an encounter is part of the gameplay, it's what causes us to have to learn strats, make appropriate gear choices (and upgrade our gear) and use our abilities in the proper place and time to help the group as a whole overcome an obstacle.
Old Shield Block and current Heroic Strike are prime examples of abilities you almost never have to put that kind of effort into. Shield Block in the days of Crushing Blows and HS now are boring because there's no thought, you just spam them. Spamming an ability without doing anything else is the definition of boring. As I said to my arch-nemesis Ziebart the Destroyer this week as we were locked in battle over the yawning chasm deep within his stygaian pit of darkness, yes, hitting buttons is fun. But hitting the same button over and over again isn't, unless you happen to be a rat with electrodes hooked up to the pleasure center of your brain.
In short: hitting buttons is fun, when they're the right buttons, and not just the same buttons all the time. Gearing for mitigation/stamina is a fine choice but if you don't have to make choices then what's the point? We may find randomization annoying and work to minimize our having to rely on luck, and that's a fine and good choice. (I hate luck.) But asking for luck to be taken out of the game or asking for abilities that require no strategy or tactics to use (hit me over and over again to avoid being smashed into paste!) just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Filed under: Warrior, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Asinity Mar 19th 2010 9:04PM
I thought you said you were gonna talk about DPS :(
Borgthor Mar 20th 2010 8:16PM
Me too.
Maltreth Mar 21st 2010 4:09PM
The DPS is a Lie!
Maelstrike Mar 24th 2010 11:08PM
Actually, at risk of being downgraded for hijacking...
"Yes, I still owe you an enchant, gem and glyph 101."
Or did I miss it?
Elephantis Mar 19th 2010 1:25PM
My current main is my prot warrior. I play him because i think consecrate is boring period.
However i completely agree that the current heroic strike mechanic is outdated and needs to be replaced or removed altogether for a new ability of some sort.
How about if heroic strike adds up points like combo points for sinister or builds up another certain bar (rage rage) or something and can be unleashed for whatever.
Yes i know prot warriors have enough buttons as it is, but the combo points or the rage rage buildup can be unleashed using revenge or shield slam for a little extra damage or something.
It just remains a fact that i don't enjoy having to macro heroic strike into every main button (ie: shield slam, revenge, devastate.)
But i think ghostcrawler is right on his note.
MOAR BUTTONZ PLZ KTHNX
Heilig Mar 19th 2010 1:45PM
How about if HS goes on the GCD and Devastate no longer scales with Sunder stacks so you want to use HS instead of Devastate on that global? Make Devastate a massive rage dump like Execute that does huge damage and also refreshes your sunder stack. You spam it at the beginning to stack sunder, but then it becomes a desirable move that you build up rage for and use for big damage every 30 seconds or so and HS becomes your new "spam this when nothing else is off CD" button.
Jenara Mar 19th 2010 6:30PM
Bind Heroic Strike and Cleave to your mouse's up and down scroll button.
Spin To Win!
BoomingEchoes Mar 19th 2010 1:27PM
Why does it always bother me that GC says "I" instead of "we" when he talks about stuff like this.
"...but I hated old Shield Block" isn't such a great thing to hear from a guy that's supposed to be working with a group of people.. It just makes him come off even more like what he says he'd like to avoid: The guy every one looks to for every thing.
Snowfeather Mar 19th 2010 1:31PM
I read that as him giving his own personal opinion and not wanting to throw words in his team mates / blizzard as a whole's mouth honestly.
Verit Mar 19th 2010 1:36PM
Because it covers his position (or arse) in case Blizzard's design team decides otherwise - for whatever reason (it could be an engineering decision or something not to change it for example).
In most big software projects it really is design by committee - very few people have the ultimate say on anything.
Aedilhild Mar 19th 2010 3:01PM
He probably uses first-person because if people aren't accusing him of arrogance, they're accusing him of ignorance. Give the guy a break.
Valorum Mar 19th 2010 1:29PM
"I have it macro'd so that I never have to use the ability, it's just autofiring off of several other moves"
My warrior is 77 and will be 80 soon. Would you mind sharing a little of that?
I know, google is my friend, but I thought I'd ask here because half the time when you google warrior macros you get stuff that was good in vanilla.
Xerxes3rd Mar 19th 2010 1:36PM
@Valorum:
Here's what I use for Revenge + Heroic Strike. This will always queue up Heroic Strike, and the ! before Heroic Strike ensures you won't dequeue it by pressing the button rapidly. Note that this type of macro is possible because Heroic Strike doesn't activate the global cooldown.
#showtooltip Revenge
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !Heroic Strike
/cast Revenge
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();
Sleutel Mar 19th 2010 5:56PM
I have a key bound to my mousewheel-downscroll that I swap between HS and Cleave, depending on the situation. Macroing it in doesn't give me enough flexibility with (a) situations where Rage is a concern and (b) packs where I need to be Cleaving instead of HSing.
Shield Block, on the other hand, I do have macro'd--into Shield Slam. Which looks like this:
#showtooltip Shield Slam
/cast Shield Block
/cast Shield Slam
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
This works because SB is off the GCD. It ensures that your SSes will always have the biggest possible bang for their buck (since they'll be synced with SB as much as possible), and it will also keep your SB up most of the time, since you should be using SS every time it's up, which will be a decent amount with SnB procs.
maybesew Mar 19th 2010 1:35PM
For someone who hasn't been playing a prot warrior as long as most, what was the old shield block mechanic? TBH, the current one seems like one i hit everytime its off cooldown as well.
Verit Mar 19th 2010 1:46PM
Increased your ability to block for x amount of seconds, then a cooldown. They changed the duration, but increased the cooldown as I recall.
Which turns it into more of a cooldown to use during heavy damage phases of a fight - where as before was a "use it every time its ready".
Heilig Mar 19th 2010 1:47PM
The old shield block increased your block chance by 75%, had 2 charges, and a 5 second CD. EVERY 5 seconds, you hit Shield Block or you took a crushing blow and got raped.
GrumblyStuff Mar 19th 2010 1:56PM
If I remember correctly, it boosted shield block chance by 75% for a rather short period of time (5-6 seconds?) for maybe... 2-4 hits with talents.
The reason you spammed it was because back then, mobs three levels over your level (ie, raid bosses) had chance that their melee attacks would be a crushing blow which was 50% more damage. If your dodge, parry, block, and chance to be missed chances were over some number (102ish % I think), that meant the hit could not be a crushing blow. This was before block value through str was useful ('twas 1 bv from 19 str?) so the amount blocked wasn't nearly as important as removing crushing blows.
maybesew Mar 19th 2010 3:01PM
Ok, I see now. So the mechanic was similar in that it increased block %, but it was a button mash because it was only up a short amount of time and had a really short cooldown.
One of the things I've noticed from tanking on the prot warrior (granted i'm only level 52, but leveled as prot with the random dungeon finder), is that there are a lot more buttons to push than on my prot pally. With seals, I would basically consecrate, hammer of righteoues, and then settle into the 9/6/9 rotation of things, and threat was never an issue running heroics or naxx (i stopped playing my pally before ulduar came out.)
I think the mix of cooldowns(shield block/thunderclap), instants(devastate/shield slam), instants available after procs(revenge), and "next melee" (heroics strike or cleave) moves really keeps things interesting for me.
jbodar Mar 19th 2010 10:45PM
A prot warrior is also more active because his GCD is only 1 sec, compared to the Pally's 1.5 sec, IIRC.