The Daily Blues

There's a handful of blue posts, including some from Ghostcrawler; but they were relatively quiet today. Expect a lot more tomorrow and the rest of this week as patch 3.3.3 spends some time on the live servers.
Table of Contents
Ghostcrawler
Overall, we think rogues do too much passive damage -- autoattacks + poison. We want to shift more of that towards their specials, which will let both the finishers and the generators hit harder while keeping sustained damage about the same. It might mean less-skilled rogues do less damage by comparison, but that's not really a bad thing.
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If you are going to make rogues do more damage with specials, won't that make them more "bursty"?
That's the risk, but from a broader perspective you're identifying the problem: more damage on specials is more fun and generally requires more skill than lots of damage from auto attacking, but can lead to more burst. That doesn't mean that tons of damage from auto attacking is a desired goal though. Neither extreme is fun.
In Cataclysm, when health pools are much higher, then burst as a PvP strategy just isn't going to have the same strength it does now. In LK you can get someone close to death in a few globals, and in fact you need to, because if you don't the healer is going to have them back to full again. In Cataclysm, sustained damage even in PvP will be more meaningful, because you're trying to shift someone's health towards an endpoint instead of flipping them from 100% to 0%. It should feel more like a tug of war over health. In that environment, burst can still be good for when you need to actually get that killing blow, but it won't be the only strategy.
Rogue burst is also scary today because they can deliver it while a target is chain stunned. We've also said that's not a particularly fun place to be (for attacker or defender) and we need to shift rogue defenses away from short-duration immunities (which includes the stuns) and more towards being able to stand toe to toe with other classes a little better.
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If you are going to make rogues do more damage with specials, won't that make them more "bursty"?
That's the risk, but from a broader perspective you're identifying the problem: more damage on specials is more fun and generally requires more skill than lots of damage from auto attacking, but can lead to more burst. That doesn't mean that tons of damage from auto attacking is a desired goal though. Neither extreme is fun.
In Cataclysm, when health pools are much higher, then burst as a PvP strategy just isn't going to have the same strength it does now. In LK you can get someone close to death in a few globals, and in fact you need to, because if you don't the healer is going to have them back to full again. In Cataclysm, sustained damage even in PvP will be more meaningful, because you're trying to shift someone's health towards an endpoint instead of flipping them from 100% to 0%. It should feel more like a tug of war over health. In that environment, burst can still be good for when you need to actually get that killing blow, but it won't be the only strategy.
Rogue burst is also scary today because they can deliver it while a target is chain stunned. We've also said that's not a particularly fun place to be (for attacker or defender) and we need to shift rogue defenses away from short-duration immunities (which includes the stuns) and more towards being able to stand toe to toe with other classes a little better.
As a point of clarification, it isn't really a goal to push as many players as possible into Arena. We think the Arena experience probably works better when the players who are participating are the ones who really enjoy it. This is in contrast to say our raiding model where we are actively trying to encourage a lot of players to raid. The goal for Arena is for it to be really fun for the players who do enjoy Arena.
We think emphasizing Battlegrounds in Cataclysm will do a lot for the players who like PvP but don't like Arenas, and to be honest, the players still doing Arenas then might very well have more fun as a result.
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So when you say keep arena for arena players, I say, keep battlegrounds for battleground players, and reward them fairly
The model for rated BGs lets players choose whether they prefer Arena or BG (or a mix of both) and progress that way.
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Considering how much time you spend rebalancing the entire game because of Arena, this is surprising.
We spent a lot of time designing hard mode Arthas and for that matter Yogg 0 and Algalon too. If we targeted all of our content at the parts of the game the largest percentage of players are doing, then we would release almost all of our content for level 1-10 players. Obviously that logic doesn't make sense, but I'd argue neither does the logic that a minority of players participate in Arena, therefore the experience doesn't have to be a good one.
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The reality is that Arena is a balancing point for the entire game. Even if you opt to not Arena you can't avoid your PVP encounters being shaped by what happens in arenas. In a very real sense, you can't avoid the arena unless you avoid PVP altogether.
I think it's a fair claim that we spend most of our PvP balance effort on Arena (and most of than on 3 vs. 3). We do spend some effort on BG balance, and we're going to have to spend a lot more once you can earn the best rewards from BGs as well.
We don't spend a lot of effort balancing world ganking, because to be honest, those encounters are rarely fair to begin with.
We think emphasizing Battlegrounds in Cataclysm will do a lot for the players who like PvP but don't like Arenas, and to be honest, the players still doing Arenas then might very well have more fun as a result.
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So when you say keep arena for arena players, I say, keep battlegrounds for battleground players, and reward them fairly
The model for rated BGs lets players choose whether they prefer Arena or BG (or a mix of both) and progress that way.
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Considering how much time you spend rebalancing the entire game because of Arena, this is surprising.
We spent a lot of time designing hard mode Arthas and for that matter Yogg 0 and Algalon too. If we targeted all of our content at the parts of the game the largest percentage of players are doing, then we would release almost all of our content for level 1-10 players. Obviously that logic doesn't make sense, but I'd argue neither does the logic that a minority of players participate in Arena, therefore the experience doesn't have to be a good one.
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The reality is that Arena is a balancing point for the entire game. Even if you opt to not Arena you can't avoid your PVP encounters being shaped by what happens in arenas. In a very real sense, you can't avoid the arena unless you avoid PVP altogether.
I think it's a fair claim that we spend most of our PvP balance effort on Arena (and most of than on 3 vs. 3). We do spend some effort on BG balance, and we're going to have to spend a lot more once you can earn the best rewards from BGs as well.
We don't spend a lot of effort balancing world ganking, because to be honest, those encounters are rarely fair to begin with.
Other
A good question, but a hard one to answer :-)
There are so many different WoW related fansites out there covering pretty much any aspect of the game, so it is tough to think of anything new that hasn't been seen before. We always appreciate a good fansite though, so it does not necessarily matter if the concept isn't new as long as it delivers :-)
A good idea could perhaps be to look into the various gameplay niches of the game and see if you can make a new resource site that could be useful for the players enganged in those gameplay niches... an example could be a resource site for Twinking or alternative levelling. I am also sure that Roleplayers wouldn't mind getting a nice resource site if they don't already have one. Making a resource site for niche gameplay players most likely won't result in massive popularity with thousands of daily visitors though, so if that is what you are going for, then other ideas may be needed...
Perhaps somebody else can think of something more interesting :-)
There are so many different WoW related fansites out there covering pretty much any aspect of the game, so it is tough to think of anything new that hasn't been seen before. We always appreciate a good fansite though, so it does not necessarily matter if the concept isn't new as long as it delivers :-)
A good idea could perhaps be to look into the various gameplay niches of the game and see if you can make a new resource site that could be useful for the players enganged in those gameplay niches... an example could be a resource site for Twinking or alternative levelling. I am also sure that Roleplayers wouldn't mind getting a nice resource site if they don't already have one. Making a resource site for niche gameplay players most likely won't result in massive popularity with thousands of daily visitors though, so if that is what you are going for, then other ideas may be needed...
Perhaps somebody else can think of something more interesting :-)
As with the start of the new Dungeon System's introduction, we will be keeping a close eye on the changes that will be implemented with the patch. While we've been watching the PTR, we're also aware that the live results may be different and will decide if any further changes are warranted or not.
There aren't any immediate plans to add new outdoor raid bosses, but plans do change from time to time. We like the idea of them, the fear of walking into one (Doomwalker comes to mind!) is always good for keeping players on their toes!
We want to make sure that we put an outdoor raid boss in place for the right reasons though, not just because we can. There are also many factors to consider when putting in place such an encounter, since people like to spoil things for others. Those people know who they are and know what I mean (Doom Lord Kazzak, anyone?).
We want to make sure that we put an outdoor raid boss in place for the right reasons though, not just because we can. There are also many factors to consider when putting in place such an encounter, since people like to spoil things for others. Those people know who they are and know what I mean (Doom Lord Kazzak, anyone?).
For me, it's the shaman. I like the distinct playstyle of both dps specs, though I do heavily favor elemental. Additionally, I really like healing as restoration.
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The hunter is looking pretty good for Cataclysm so far. In fact, we'll have information on specific classes available soon.
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The hunter is looking pretty good for Cataclysm so far. In fact, we'll have information on specific classes available soon.
Blizzard
- DC Direct announces World of Warcraft Deluxe Collector The Lich King Arthas Action Figure
- Creative announces availability of Sound Blaster World of Warcraft Wireless Headset
- Richard A. Knaak booksigning @ Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas
Filed under: The Daily Blues






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
yujie.max Mar 23rd 2010 12:19AM
Very excited about the information on the specific classes in Cataclysm that we will get Soon™ .
Raygunomicks Mar 23rd 2010 12:30AM
I don't know what GC is talking about, in the world of undead roguery there is nothing better than taking a human pally from 100% to 0% health while said pally is stunned. Muah ha ha
Duffman Mar 23rd 2010 12:42AM
But that's the thing; you're not proving your PVP capabilities by stun locking someone and taking them down from 100% to no health. You're just showing that you have a lot of burst damage if you get the opener. And I know rogues are meant to make fights quick without any resistance (that's why they have a lot of varying stuns), but burst damage capabilities do not equal actual PVP skills.
Next time, try going at the pally head on, no stealth or anything. THEN you'll see what he means by he wants to make rogues "more towards being able to stand toe to toe with other classes a little better."
Matt Mar 23rd 2010 1:02AM
Oh yeah, being a rogue myself, I know what you mean, but GC is talking about giving Rogues the ability to take a Ret on without stealth in an emergency situation.
For example, alot of times Rets catch me without stealth or any of my cooldowns, and trust me, it's not fun. The only actual option we have against them is Evasion, which only lasts a little bit and doesn't guarantee that I'm not going to get destroyed within seconds.
I'd like to see the Rogue class get balanced out a little -- take some strength away from our insane burst capabilities when we get the opener and give us the ability to effectively fight and survive unstealthed.
Minidrake Mar 23rd 2010 1:06AM
Only if the Paladin is going to meet me head on without one of his signature abilities.
yns88 Mar 23rd 2010 1:31AM
So your rogue is pretty much guaranteed to win if he lands the first blow, and guaranteed to lose if the pally starts the fight.
Does that sound very fun?
Spazmoose Mar 23rd 2010 2:01AM
I rarely actually see paladins get stunlocked until death (close to death sure, but rarely 100-0). Priests and mages on the otherhand, I have seen too many times where a rogue catches them, and they are dead before the stun even comes close to wearing off...It really isn't fun, and is the entire reason why a lot of people have avoided pvp all together in wotlk.
ZeroDesu Mar 23rd 2010 5:13AM
With the new health and armor-related adjustments in Cataclysm, won't that effectively do their job at making the Rogue more able to go toe-to-toe with other classes without having to make any other adjustments? Clothies will be getting more health, meaning that they'll be better able to stand up to the Rogue burst phase. At the same time, Plate wearers are getting their armor dropped to levels closer to the other armors. All the while, the Rogue will likely get a slight armor/health buff, but will otherwise stay in their current sweet-spot. Pallys and Warriors and the like will be more susceptible to our attacks, while we have a slight bump to protect against theirs. Isn't that essentially what Blizzard wants?
Granted, I'm cool with the "reduce the automatic damage and put more into bursts so skilled players look better" fixes, but that's mostly because I know I'll be able to do better that way.
Angus Mar 23rd 2010 12:55AM
Eyonix likes shaman.
That why they ran him out of the forums for not knowing a thing about how the class worked?
Al Mar 23rd 2010 2:28AM
I thought it was because he came back from vacation and made a joke about the Class Review they didn't get, and never would.
Cue Bus-Shock.
Banic Rhys Mar 23rd 2010 1:47AM
*Generic "lulz GC is so asome" comment*
Hollow Leviathan Mar 23rd 2010 1:53AM
Tempted to get Knaak to sign a Death Certificate for "Wow Lore" at a signing. Not that it's actually dead, but d**ned if he's not trying.
Banic Rhys Mar 23rd 2010 2:36AM
Is that bandwagon you're on comfy? I sure hope so.
vloriggio Mar 23rd 2010 5:34AM
I think it's odd that people would *want* a Rogue to be able to stand up to a Ret Pally in a fair, no-Stealth fight.
I mean, what we're basically talking about is leather versus plate, smaller weapons versus big two-hander. Barring any actual misses (or dodges, parries, etc.), the Pally *should* be the clear winner in a straight-up fight.
The Rogue is meant to Stealth, subterfuge is a huge part of the class. I understand that an all-or-nothing philosophy for PvP may not be all that fun for the person on the receiving end, but it makes sense.
If the Pally wins in straight-up fight but loses when the Rogue gets the first shot in when Stealthed, that sounds pretty balanced to me. It's a very stark kind of balance, and maybe not ideal, but it *is* balanced.
It seems to me that stuns are at the heart of the matter, though. Maybe the real solution is dealing with those, instead. No one likes being completely deprived of control over their character, after all. Finding another way to make the fight one-sided under the right circumstances but not completely dominated by stuns could be one way to go, but it'd require a massive amount of work, of course.
kebosangar Mar 23rd 2010 6:16AM
Just want to comment that this is currently my favorite new feature in Wow.com.
Nice job guys!
Gives me new insight regarding things in WOW that I was not aware of (especially about other classes) and I don't go around the forum much so I am unfamiliar of GC's 'notoriety' besides several Memes.
So far he sounds like a smart guy and does sound like understands the game and mechanic very very well (ok sounds like a sarcasm considering he's the developer but this is a sincere statement) ESPECIALLY the underline flaws of current system. Currently I have a positive outlook that Blizz can actually straighten out the game, I am certainly be there when they launch Cataclysm.
gezùs Mar 23rd 2010 7:36AM
Nethaera "Lawful Evil"
YOU PUPPET!!!!!!
styopa Mar 23rd 2010 9:53AM
First a funny, then a serious:
"Rogue burst is also scary today because they can deliver it while a target is chain stunned. We've also said that's not a particularly fun place to be (for attacker or defender) ..."
As far as I can tell, that IS the main fun for a rogue....
But srsly, why does everything have to be balanced against everything in every situation?
I have no rogue characters. Still, I have NO PROBLEM with the idea that a rogue - with the advantage of surprise and stealth - can pretty nearly one shot me. The other side of the coin is that if you get them without their cooldowns, you can pretty nearly always kill them (and, since they are so likely to be the ones that ganked us yesterday, rogues tend to be kill-on-sight for everyone, because we KNOW they aren't just going to 'leave us alone'....ever).
So fine, they have an advantage in a single situation. As long as there are other specific situations (hunter at range, pally with divine shield available, etc, etc, etc) where other classes can win, what's the problem?
Balance =/= mirror-image capabilities at all times.
Junglejam Mar 23rd 2010 10:51AM
I will admit that while leveling and during the learning process of PvP a rogue could lock down my mage from 100-0 and at the time I thought it was unfair. However, after acquiring resilience gear, spec'ing into frost and learning how to use my cooldowns it is actually fun to get opened on by the rogue that chases me across the map thinking "oh a mage!" They rarely live in cooldown fights with me these days. Good frost mages have all the tools necessary to survive and defeat an opener from a rogue.
Ant Mar 23rd 2010 12:02PM
Ugh, should've played a shaman during BC and getting caught by a rogue. You were basically done.