The Daily Blues
by Alex Ziebart 
Mar 24th 2010 at 11:00PM
While blue posters were quite lively today, most of it was casual conversation between CMs and players. There were a few exceptions, such as Ghostcrawler's always-interesting discussions and a web maintenance warning for tomorrow evening. Read on!
Table of Contents
Ghostcrawler
Ghostcrawler -- Spirit BeastsThe Spirit Beasts were added as a way to capture that old feeling of having to hunt (which really means be very patient and very lucky) to get rare spawn pets so that you'd feel awesome and be able to show them off. Making those creatures actually more powerful than other pets goes completely counter to that design. If the frustratingly rare spawn is needed for highest possible dps, there would be a lot of exasperated hunters out there, and I think they'd be totally justified.
Spirit Beasts are the hunter equivalent of the Time Lost Protodrake. They are there for bragging rights, not max dps.
We're not sure yet what we're going to do for hunter pets in the future. I fear that even if the dps gain was marginal that hunters would still go for the highest dps pets, so really there only exists an illusion of choice. We could literally make all of the pet families do the exact dps and have rather watered down special abilities (because otherwise one of them might grant a 1 or 2% dps benefit and that would end up being the pet again).
In other words, I can see a design where pet choice is purely cosmetic and pet stats are identical or I can see a design where pet choice matters, in which case you don't really have that many to choose from on content that matters.
Spirit Beasts are the hunter equivalent of the Time Lost Protodrake. They are there for bragging rights, not max dps.
We're not sure yet what we're going to do for hunter pets in the future. I fear that even if the dps gain was marginal that hunters would still go for the highest dps pets, so really there only exists an illusion of choice. We could literally make all of the pet families do the exact dps and have rather watered down special abilities (because otherwise one of them might grant a 1 or 2% dps benefit and that would end up being the pet again).
In other words, I can see a design where pet choice is purely cosmetic and pet stats are identical or I can see a design where pet choice matters, in which case you don't really have that many to choose from on content that matters.
Ghostcrawler -- Making healing fun in CataclysmIdeas that would make healing more fun are good things to discuss in this forum, particularly with an eye towards Cataclysm.
The idea to let healers dps a little is a controversial one though. Some healers just have no interest in it, so while it might make healing a lot more fun for you, it risks making healing a lot less fun for them. I would not approach that idea as an obviously intuitive one that all healers will rally around, because I suspect that's just not the case. :(
I like healing in general, but if I had 5-10 talent points to spend that would convert damage to healing that would be an interesting choice in my tree. I can see where a healer doing dps could lend to a lot of issues concerning gearing etc, but that is for another discussion.
I could see that if the tree was structured in such a way that you had to give up a little bit of healing for that dps (and to be fair, talents like Searing Light already exist), such that it was the kind of thing you might do while soloing or running easy content (like Dungeon Finder when overgeared). In other words, I wouldn't want us to do it in such a way that healers were then balanced around doing damage -- like we calculated healer damage when we come up with boss berserk timers. Then it goes from a playstyle choice to being the only way to play.
There is literally nothing Blizzard can do to address this issue in any significant way. That isn't to say that they can't improve things for those of us who do enjoy healing mind you, only that no revamp to the game's healing system will bring in additional healers.
We don't need to bring a lot more players to healing. Dungeons, raids and Arena teams generally seem to find what they need, and I'd argue some players are attracted to healing specifically because they know it makes them a treasured commodity. What we do need is to make healing fun for players who like healing. We don't want to lose the healers we have.
The idea to let healers dps a little is a controversial one though. Some healers just have no interest in it, so while it might make healing a lot more fun for you, it risks making healing a lot less fun for them. I would not approach that idea as an obviously intuitive one that all healers will rally around, because I suspect that's just not the case. :(
I like healing in general, but if I had 5-10 talent points to spend that would convert damage to healing that would be an interesting choice in my tree. I can see where a healer doing dps could lend to a lot of issues concerning gearing etc, but that is for another discussion.
I could see that if the tree was structured in such a way that you had to give up a little bit of healing for that dps (and to be fair, talents like Searing Light already exist), such that it was the kind of thing you might do while soloing or running easy content (like Dungeon Finder when overgeared). In other words, I wouldn't want us to do it in such a way that healers were then balanced around doing damage -- like we calculated healer damage when we come up with boss berserk timers. Then it goes from a playstyle choice to being the only way to play.
There is literally nothing Blizzard can do to address this issue in any significant way. That isn't to say that they can't improve things for those of us who do enjoy healing mind you, only that no revamp to the game's healing system will bring in additional healers.
We don't need to bring a lot more players to healing. Dungeons, raids and Arena teams generally seem to find what they need, and I'd argue some players are attracted to healing specifically because they know it makes them a treasured commodity. What we do need is to make healing fun for players who like healing. We don't want to lose the healers we have.
Ghostcrawler -- Warrior Tier GearOther
Nethaera -- 30 Minute LFD DebuffWe're keeping a close eye on the discussions, feedback and in-game information for this. We don't have any current plans to make changes, and it seems a bit soon to start considering them, but we are paying attention to constructive discussion and feedback on this change.
Wymdar -- Web MaintenanceWe will be performing a maintenance on the Blizzard web infrastructure beginning at 10:00pm PST on March 25th, 2010 and running through 4:00am PST on March 26th, 2010. During this time, various services on Blizzard.com, Worldofwarcraft.com, and Wowarmory.com will be intermittently unavailable. The following services may potentially be affected:
Armory
Forums
Account Management
In Game Knowledge-Base
Blizzard.com support site
Pet Redemption
Beta Sign-ups
Armory
Forums
Account Management
In Game Knowledge-Base
Blizzard.com support site
Pet Redemption
Beta Sign-ups
Filed under: The Daily Blues
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Barrin Mar 25th 2010 3:35PM
I wish they would also mention something about being stuck at 100% at the loading screen once you've selected your character to play. It's really annoying
vinniedcleaner Mar 24th 2010 11:13PM
I think rather than make all the pets the same, there should be different types of pets for different roles. (kind of how they are now) They could even be expanded to have a little more niche talents like warlock pets. To counter the problem of not having the right pet for the situation at hand, 2 more pet slots need to be added.
Hal Mar 24th 2010 11:40PM
I think an excellent solution might be to have different pets provide different minor raid (de)buffs. In this way, the pet choice could be very useful, especially for 10 man raids that might lack specific classes and the (de)buffs they bring. Even if you had everything already present in a 25 man raid, you could still bring along your favorite pet rather than having to worry about bringing the "right" pet.
Sterdoker Mar 25th 2010 12:16AM
Emphasis on "minor" debuffs, or else you have a balance issue.
The problem I see is that it would be just a mirror of the current pet's abilities or even talents; you would still get one pet that outperforms the others.
flawless Mar 25th 2010 6:18AM
"I think an excellent solution might be to have different pets provide different minor raid (de)buffs. In this way, the pet choice could be very useful, especially for 10 man raids that might lack specific classes and the (de)buffs they bring."
They... do? Rhino for Trauma/Mangle, Worm for Sunder (20%), Wasp for FF (5%), various pets have casting speed reductions, hit debuffs, interrupts.
For the more "powerful" abilities, BM is required, but given that BM and SV are closer than ever now, it's not a huge problem for a Hunter to go BM for normal raids.
Hardmodes are another matter entirely (except lolship battle), but for hardmodes you're going to want to build an excellent raid group anyway.
Wowcoholic Mar 25th 2010 12:14PM
Aren't spirit beasts considered Exotic pets, requiring the 51 point talent in Beast Mastery? One could wonder why Blizzard didn't give any pet that would be considered Exotic, spirit beasts included, a higher dps output...thus solving the woes of BM raiding. It's a spec most enjoy playing, but end up leaving behind for more favorable damage meters.
And to the other hunters that QQ that they can't have the highest dps pet....don't they get their dps from other means? I should think it only be fair that BM have access to the best pets. It's what their spec is all about.
ShimmyShimmyYA Mar 24th 2010 11:25PM
Damage spells that when cast heal for ~125-150% of the damage done split between 2 people close to the target...Chain heals that turn into chain lightning if they have no more targets to heal..Holy Fire type graphic damage spell that permeates a consecration- esqe healing area for x seconds. I would love to see dual use spells to give us healers some way of dealing damage but at the same time healing. RAWWWWWRRR
Viper007Bond Mar 24th 2010 11:35PM
If you want to DPS, then don't spec healing. You shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it too.
Hyacinthe Mar 24th 2010 11:47PM
What's the point of having cake if you're not going to eat it?
Hollow Leviathan Mar 24th 2010 11:58PM
If you eat your cake, you don't have it anymore. You can't eat it and then still have it.
Sterdoker Mar 25th 2010 12:19AM
@Hollow Leviathan
Man, I hate you for bursting the bubble.
thebitterfig Mar 25th 2010 12:51AM
I'm almost entirely opposed to the idea of "damage to heal" stuff. I side with the healers who are healers because they don't like being a dps class.
Now, if what you are proposing are more spells like Holy Nova, an inefficient spell which has gimmicky healing and damage uses, that's wonderful. I love Holy Nova. Likewise, Judgements of the Pure is a pretty cool talent. I'm even cool with the holy paladin using melee swings on the boss to gain extra mana from Seal of Wisdom while they have free GCDs. Sure is a more involved way of getting mana back than dropping a fancy totem. However, these aren't really what you're talking about.
What you seem to be talking about is "We're so overgeared for heroics now between tanks with high avoidance and dps who kill mobs so quickly as to trivialize their damage, that healers are almost irrelevant, so we want spells so we can deal damage and also do our job." I've been there. I was also once, to my shame of shames, out-dps'd by a healer in a heroic once (kingslayer elemental shaman). However, I don't think that's a problem with healing being boring (healing in at-gear-level RAIDS isn't boring), that's a problem with being overgeared for content, and I don't think that radically changing how the game works is the best way to deal with the inconvenience of overgearing.
To that end, it will be amusing to see people so used to roflstomping heroics get gummed up if not ground out in cata heroic dungeons, because they won't overgear them.
Angus Mar 25th 2010 1:23AM
The people replying don't get it.
Healing is whack a mole.
Using the default UI sucks for it, you won't see people so you use an add on.
How do all the add ons for healing work? Click on a box. Whack that mole before it falls.
Oh yea, that's fun in a raid. Having cast Chainall 90% of a raid, i can tell you, it isn't fun, interactive, or even close to a dynamic thing. Playing as Enhance, I am watching timers, cooldowns, and positioning. As a healer in the same fight, I check to see if I am in fire, and click on the mole that looks like it will need help the most.
"But Angus, a shaman isn't exactly interactive for healing."
Oh but I have healed as holy and disc on a priest, know the difference?
Priest I get to use both mouse buttons on the add on.
Now if you made the Healing work where the healer has a base amount of healing and if they throw X number of damaging spells they get Y buff to the healing, that would make them have to think about when to heal and when to pewpew. Make the healing give a buff to damage after X number of heals and you have a very dynamic mechanic.
Finally, last I knew, tanks had no problem soloing. DPS, no issue. Healers? Yea, have fun taking 5 times as long as the DPS and 3 times the length of the tanks in killing the same mobs. I think that needs to get fixed.
Hollow Leviathan Mar 25th 2010 2:14AM
If you're having trouble killing all 15 dudes for your Tournament daily at the same time on your priest, you're not casting Holy Nova enough. Healers can solo close to as easily as tanks, and do about the same dps, AND you can heal yourself. You're as solo viable as tanks, sheesh.
Gothia Mar 25th 2010 2:26AM
@Viper
Why not? Why can't people dps and heal at the same time like a shadow priest? What would be wrong with a tank having damage attacks comparable to melee dps to generate threat and damage?
One thing true is that more player prefer to dps rather than tank or heal. Hence dps players that are able to spec tank / heal, but still choose to wait in LFD queue for over 30 minutes vice 30 seconds. I ask again Why Not?
GC said one important thing in all of his post:
"like we calculated healer damage when we come up with boss berserk timers. Then it goes from a playstyle choice to being the only way to play."
This is about choices and making these roles fit a majority of the player base instead of a minority. No, I don't want to change healing or tanking, but I would like to see more options available because I hate to see people act like "Three wise monkeys" instead of tackling the main issue. There is a reason why a majority of the player base will not accept the role of Healer and Tank. Why not?
pr1me Mar 25th 2010 2:34AM
"Now if you made the Healing work where the healer has a base amount of healing and if they throw X number of damaging spells they get Y buff to the healing, that would make them have to think about when to heal and when to pewpew. Make the healing give a buff to damage after X number of heals and you have a very dynamic mechanic."
This is pretty much the model for the Shaman class in Warhammer Online and it was totally unconventional but fantastically successful, in my opinion.
Soloing as a healer in WoW is tedious at best but with the split heal/DPS model, it becomes much more dynamic and interesting. Instead of always doing pathetic damage but being able to heal really well, and still being fragile at times, you're able to drop some pretty hefty nukes when the situation calls for it, then recover with big heals afterward. Meaning burning through mobs to finish your "kill 50 boars" quest doesn't take you all night while the pure DPS class finishes it in 15 minutes.
The choices available in group PvE can also be so much more engaging than the glorified whack-a-mole model that WoW uses. It's a true hybrid model in the sense that you really could alternate between two different roles on the fly. Not in the WoW hybrid sense that you have to stop and respec and swap your gear out to actually be effective in another role, but in the sense that you can actually switch priorities mid combat, and doing so intelligently can significantly increase the efficiency of your group.
It was pretty overpowered in PvP though, since you could rapidly alternate between doing amazing heals and dropping face-melting damage on people-- still, it was super fun and I'd love to see something similar in WoW sometime. In a new class perhaps? Monk maybe?
Aaron Mar 25th 2010 8:00AM
Healers should heal. If I want to DPS I switch specs/gear and run battlegrounds. :P
jrizutko Mar 25th 2010 10:21AM
@Angus,
Don't play a shaman healer if you don't like it. I don't get why you'd spend time doing something you don't like as a social hobby.
Jamie Mar 24th 2010 11:28PM
The index links at the top of the post link to yesterdays post.
Just thought you'd like to know.
Ix Mar 24th 2010 11:34PM
hmmm Beta sign-ups being affected? O.o