The Care and Feeding of Warriors: The problems with DPS

Okay, patch 3.3.3 dropped this week. The Revenge change? Pretty darn awesome. The change to Imp Revenge makes it really great for PvE. The change to Vitality was a nice bump in our health. But since I've covered tanking topics for weeks now, it's long past time I make good on my promise and talk about DPS. First off, they already hotfixed the 4pcT10 set bonus down from its near 100% up time back down to the 20% intended proc chance. That's a shame, because for one brief, shining moment, our 4 piece set bonus was almost as good as the rogue 2 piece. Of course, there was a nice duration buff to Trauma, a much less nice nerf to Bladestorm, and Rampage changed to a passive aura (meaning that now I have to use Bloodrage if I need to use Enraged Regeneration, but otherwise I'm happy).
We can talk about Rend Dancing. What, pray tell, is rend dancing? Well, it's fitting Rend into a fury warrior's DPS rotation. The reason this works (when it does) is because a fury warrior's DPS rotation has a lot of dead space between abilty and global cooldowns and waiting for procs to switch stances and put Rend on a target for more DPS. Generally speaking, a macro to switch you into Battle, apply rend, then switch you back to Berserker is very useful for Rend Dancing.
Rend Dancing is very subject to problems with latency, and it ends up as a net DPS loss on any fight with a lot of AoE. But on fights like Festergut or Saurfang, where you stand in one place and beat on one boss, it's better to use those empty spaces between Bloodthirst and Whirlwind cooldowns to actually generate some DPS. I've tested it out and seen some decent DPS from it (about 65 more DPS on 10 man Festergut) with the Glyph of Rending. And it's not like it's terribly onerous to switch over to Battle once every 20 seconds or so and slap a Rend up. (Even without the glyph, which I don't really like using because it costs me either Cleaving or Heroic Strike glyphs, 15 seconds is pretty doable.)
What the rend dance indicates to me is that the fury warrior rotation ends up with a lot of empty space. You're wholly at the mercy of Bloodsurge (and the 4pT10 set bonus) as without a Bloodsurge proc, you're basically just hitting Bloodthirst every four seconds and Whirlwind every 8 while using Heroic Strike to bleed off excess rage. In a situation where you have enough rage, you'll basically never stop hitting HS, which means your rotation looks like this: BT (HS) - BT (HS) - WW (HS HS). Using the Glyph of Rending to provide extra DPS is fine on fights where rage really isn't an issue, because you can switch stances to slap rend on and back within the four seconds between your WW and the next BT. What complicates the issue is, what else are you expected to do in that time?
Will you be expected to Sunder, to use Demo, to keep Commanding up? These all take up GCD's and keep you from using those dead zones in the fury rotation for a rend dance. This is where I have to salute the ingenuity and skill of the people who came up with this technique in the first place. But it still says to me that fury, at present, manages to be constrained by cooldowns in a way that's unappealing to me. Yes, you can get good DPS out of a fury spec. But the idea that people are actually getting more DPS on single target by putting in the Glyph of Rending and slapping Rend up (dumping a decent amount of rage and risking a 4pcT10 proc duing a period of low rage) amazes me. It's as if a feral druid felt it was worthwhile to switch from cat form to caster form and cast Wrath every 20 seconds or so.
Again, this isn't for every fight. You're going to want Cleaving on Arthas, I'd bet, for all those annoying little adds to smash with Cleave and Whirlwind, and to get Val'kyr's when they're all grouped up, and to maximize Deep Wounds for 2pcT10 procs. It's absolutely not something I'd use in a 5 man heroic, either, because most 5 man bosses don't really last long enough at this point to justify losing rage to stance dance just to put Rend up.
Frankly, I wish arms had some similar move they could use to eke out more DPS in raids. As much as I love fury, I'm really sad to see arms warriors relegated to debuff bots at best with their DPS lagging behind other hybrids (and even the other DPS spec of their own class) while they eat PvP nerfs that weren't really necessary or justified. A really well played arms warrior can still do some significant damage, of course, but it's a far cry from the days where you saw a warrior with a Cataclysm's Edge and you backed away slowly.
Basically, both warrior DPS specs feel sort of aimless and un-fun lately. Going from fury to prot, I always feel like someone took a set of manacles off, as with Sword and Board proccing free Shield Slams, Revenge now worth using, Devastate and HS abilities I can use pretty much constantly when nothing else is up, TC and Shockwave on longer cooldowns that can be fitted in-between other abilities, and Cleave available for trash you have a wider variety of abilities and more variety in when you use them. I'd love for Whirlwind to be broken up into a short cooldown instant and a longer duration true AoE move (frankly, the criminal under-utilization of Victory Rush in endgame raiding/instancing surprises me.... why isn't there a glyph or talent that makes VR useable as part of a fury or arms rotation?) - since Whirlwind suffers from the same AoE damage cap as spells with no target limit, why does it have one? (This affects Bladestorm as well, since basically Bladestorm is just seven whirlwinds cast consecutively.)
What I'd like to see is arms get a small but significant DPS boost via a new ability (possibly another proc, but with Taste for Blood and Sudden Death arms is proc reliant enough in my opinion) that filled in some cooldown gaps. Fury, I don't know that it needs more DPS, per se (well, okay, I always think fury needs more DPS) but I'd love to see a more fluid rotation with less dead space encouraging people to come up with weirdly effective stance dance moves to increase its damage. Heck, maybe something as simple as making Rend work in zerk.
Next week, I'll outline what I see as the state of the arms spec: where it's good, where it could use work.
Filed under: Warrior, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
CDave Mar 26th 2010 3:15PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it take 3 GCDs to apply a rend from zerk stance?
Kilax Mar 28th 2010 5:38PM
Not quite.
Changing stances uses a separate cooldown which is independent of your GCD. So you have 1 GCD and 2 stance change cooldowns. Because the cooldowns don't interfere with each other you can hit the buttons one after the other, so with practice and low latency it's the same as using 1 GCD.
LittleHamster Mar 29th 2010 5:33AM
You only rend dance if you have 3 secs left that you don't have WW, BT, bloodsurge procs, sunder or shouts to do. Also, you need have to glyphed rend.
You don't rend dance in AoE fights because you'll also have glyphed cleave instead. So basically you use rend glyph for single target fights, and cleave glyph of multi-target. It's dead simple.
HammerHealer Mar 26th 2010 3:22PM
O boy, ANOTHER week of incessant bitching. We get it, warriors are boring and bad at dps.
Kuba Mar 26th 2010 5:34PM
You don't play a warrior, do you?
kev_tan99 Mar 26th 2010 6:08PM
Hey uh, you missed the QQ Blog over there. ----->
...Jealous.
busuan Mar 26th 2010 3:24PM
I stack up hit rating to make up for the seemly endless waiting on CDs, so that my white damage means something.
A lazy solution...because I don't think smashing buttons (stance dancing) is really that fun.
Astemus Mar 26th 2010 3:41PM
I keep waiting for something awesome to happen to warriors to make me want to play mine again, but it never happens. I was a warrior for 3 years, and I finally had enough in naxx(wotlk). I leveled my druid and never looked back. But even though I've finally passed my old main in achievement points, I still keep a weather eye on the horizon, waiting for a sign that the magic is back.
Maybe once I don't have to manage heroic strike every 1.5 seconds I'll consider it. I never realized that so much repetitive button mashing was the cause for my wrist pain, but after I switched and it went away, it was like a light went on. The warrior was hurting me in more ways than one... ~single tear~
BigLove Mar 27th 2010 6:03PM
Yeah, I'm sure that was the cause of your wrist pain ;o)
JBcani Mar 30th 2010 6:24PM
@Biglove
It sure isn't the cause of mine ;)
arcaneterror Mar 26th 2010 3:43PM
Arms keeps eating nerfs we don't need and it makes me sad as an Arms raider. *Sigh* Cataclysm, you can't come soon enough.
eROKv Mar 26th 2010 3:44PM
uh wouldnt you be much better off filling that hole by hitting a regular (non-instant procc'd) slam instead of all that monkeybusiness?
Wrabbit Mar 26th 2010 4:11PM
No... no. Slam IS the problem with fury warriors. White damage is important to fury, making Slam entirely unusable without BS. They need to fix that. Either change how BS procs or fix Slam itself. There isn't even a Glyph for Slam, Blizz just ignores it...
Tim Mar 26th 2010 4:13PM
No. It messes with you your swing timers. Your white damage is more important than buttons.
Moxxy Mar 26th 2010 3:46PM
Why on earth are you complaining about 4pc T10 Warriors & comparing it to rogue T10 2pc? For one thing, rogue 4pc T10 is worse than 4pc T10 Warriors (ours is worth about 40 DPS in BIS gear, give or take), but when comparing the relative value of tier sets, you need to compare 2pc + 4pc to 2pc + 4pc. Anyway, when using a 2pc + 4pc comparison, you could do much better than pick on OP rogue T10. For instance, look at the sheer DPS boost 2pc + 4pc Ret T10 gives. It will make both rogue & warrior's epeen shrink in envy.
Shrike Mar 26th 2010 5:57PM
The fact that paladins of every spec are ridiculously overpowered has nothing to do with yet another set of lackluster or unpleasant warrior changes.
When is Blizzard going to stop tuning warriors as if we are all as well-geared as Kungen or Draka?
GrumblyStuff Mar 26th 2010 6:37PM
Well, thing with comparing set bonuses (to me) is that the 2pc lets you use something else be it 2pc from the previous tier or higher level or better itemized non-set gear.
clundgren Mar 26th 2010 6:44PM
Warriors are well outperforming "overpowered" paladins in ICC raiding and arenas right now. Fury warriors are almost at rogue levels for dps. Ret paladins are a lower tier dps class against ICC bosses. Check the data if you don't believe me.
I am so sick of every class article spawning "paladins are oped comments", but coming from warriors, who ARE arguably oped right now,it's especially rich.
I have RETURNED! Mar 29th 2010 6:37PM
@clundgren: are you serious?! have you even played a Fury warrior since they nerfed TG? Since I last checked warriors are nowhere near Rogue DPS (a few rogues in my guild regularly pass 15K DPS). I have a Fury warrior an my max DPS approaches 8K AT MOST. Average DPS is somewhere lower than that (between 4.5 and 6 K), and I'm in ICC10 gear.
HammerHealer Mar 26th 2010 3:46PM
What do you people expect out of a rotation, a pony and a handy? Its button pushing in a set order. Arms runs on a priority system, at least there you get some randomness.