PAX East 2010: Turbine on renting vs. owning in the MMO market

Blizzard's presence at PAX East 2010 was even smaller than I was expecting, with two or so Community reps there to oversee the StarCraft II tournaments going on. Boston-based Lord of the Rings Online developer Turbine, though, had a very large demo area which saw a lot of traffic over the course of the three-day event. Con-goers could stop by and demo LotRO, as well as Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited, and hobnob with the Community reps and developers present.
With the WoW-specific news at the event registering somewhere between "literally nothing" and "nearly nothing" on the newsy scale, I decided to stop by Turbine and ask them a few questions about their MMOs. I ended up speaking with their Design Director, Ian Currie.
"I'm from WoW.com," I said, "so obviously I don't normally do a lot of reporting on your games. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever even played DDO, and I've only played a little bit of LotRO."
Currie smiled and said "You really don't know what you're missing, then, do you!"
"Apparently not," I acquiesced, "but maybe you can help fill in the blanks."
With the WoW-specific news at the event registering somewhere between "literally nothing" and "nearly nothing" on the newsy scale, I decided to stop by Turbine and ask them a few questions about their MMOs. I ended up speaking with their Design Director, Ian Currie.
"I'm from WoW.com," I said, "so obviously I don't normally do a lot of reporting on your games. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever even played DDO, and I've only played a little bit of LotRO."
Currie smiled and said "You really don't know what you're missing, then, do you!"
"Apparently not," I acquiesced, "but maybe you can help fill in the blanks."
I asked Currie how DDO and LotRO differ from WoW in design philosophy, though we didn't stay on the topic for long.
"Well, DDO differs a lot more from WoW on fundamental levels than LotRO does," he said, "so I'll be talking about DDO in this case."
He brought up a number of points that made DDO different from WoW -- its combat is more action- and skill-based, letting you move to dodge attacks and missile spells, for example, offering a different fighting experience than WoW's more "turn-based" combat. He went on to praise WoW for its sheer amount of content but pointed out that a lot of the quests were what are termed "Fedex" quests early on -- the kind that send you off to distant areas with a package for someone, or a note, or a particular item. "We wanted to avoid that kind of thing, so from the beginning, quests were tailored to be very different from one another, to keep the experience fresh."
Probably anticipating that I'd bring up the upcoming Cataclysm expansion that'll retool most of WoW's early content, including quests Blizzard considered clunky, antiquated, or just not fun, Currie quickly noted that DDO didn't necessarily do everything right at launch either and that, like Blizzard, they've learned a lot since their respective games launched. The biggest change to the game since its launch in 2006, though, had nothing to do with gameplay.
"DDO went free-to-play late last year," I said. "Can you tell me a little about how that's going, for you and for the players?"
Currie seemed excited to talk about it, which surprised me. When I hear that an MMO that was originally subscription-based is going free-to-play, I tend to consider it banshee keening. For Turbine, though, DDO's new payment model has been an enormous success, both in terms of subscriber growth and financial gain. Currie stated that they had gained over a million new subscribers (effectively doubling their player base), and revenues from the game had increased by an astounding 500% since going free-to-play.
"You'll have to forgive me," I said, "but that almost doesn't make sense to me."
He laughed. "I know, it sounds crazy. How can you make money on a free game? We wondered that, too. We debated long and hard over the change to the payment model, but it's paid off big-time for us. And for the fans, too." Then he gave me a quick primer on how the system works: anyone can download and play the game for absolutely nothing. Everyone has access to basic content, but those who choose to pay a monthly fee get perks, such as VIP titles. Additionally, the game is supported by the DDO Store, which allows you to buy content packs, vanity items, potions, and other non-essential items.
Currie said that the store was intended to be mainly for convenience. The free-to-play genre is notorious for games that are nearly impossible to enjoy without pumping money into them -- many Korean import games fall into this trap. Yes, you can play for nothing, but you can't have fun or compete. "We wanted to make sure that the play experience wasn't cheapened by the store being there. Nothing you can buy gives players a concrete advantage over others in terms of progression." I pointed out that not many free-to-play games follow this model and he agreed that Turbine was in a rather unique position in the genre.
"Everyone can play through the content without ever getting anything from the store, and they'll have a fine time of it. What we're pretty proud of with the whole system is the fact that the player owns any content they buy."
I pressed for a bit of clarification. He obliged by likening most subscription-based games, like WoW, to renting something. When you buy an expansion pack for WoW, you only have access to that content, or any content, while your subscription is active. If your subscription lapses, you can't play what you bought anymore. "If you buy a content pack from the DDO store, on the other hand, it's yours forever, regardless of whether you're currently subscribed or not. If you're normally a VIP and have a rough month financially, you can go back to the free-play model and still play what you purchased in the store," Currie said.
It's unlikely that Blizzard will ever go for a free-to-play payment model for WoW -- they make billions on subscription fees -- but the effects of the switch for Turbine have been undeniable, and my interest was piqued when the renting-vs.-owning comparison was made. Save for social connections, players have very little they can take away from WoW when their subscription lapses. They've left no real permanent mark on Azeroth, they have no free pass back in when they want to come back, and their content purchases mean nothing when they have to pinch pennies for a while. It occurred to me that perhaps Blizzard could make the 1-60 game free-to-play, with Outland and Northrend being subscriber-only, but with Cataclysm hitting shortly, that's looking less and less likely.
I've understood for a long time -- since before I worked at Blizzard explaining this kind of information regularly -- that WoW is conditionally licensed to you (the condition being that you pay the fee and follow the rules). This is the same for many MMOs, of course, but Turbine appears to be trying to buck that trend by at least giving players a permanent foothold in the world of Eberron. You'll always have a home there no matter how much money you're making. You can't really say the same for Azeroth. Maybe Turbine is on to something.
Filed under: Events, Interviews






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
stochastic Mar 30th 2010 9:13PM
I wonder if they also allow (1) sale of in-game currency i.e. gold etc. (2) if they allow players to trade items to each other for money.
I have heard many people espouse their opinion, that sale of currency would cause hyper-inflation, as fact. Under the right circumstances, i.e. when sale of gold doesn't increase gold supply to the market, this should not be the case. Anyways, I would be curious if any MMOs have allowed the sale of currency and what effect it has had on their in-game markets.
Oskari Mar 30th 2010 9:42PM
Answer to both: No
Rob Mar 30th 2010 9:43PM
There's a few ways to do in game currency trading.
1) A direct exchange of gold for dollars from the company (ex.: Blizzard). This would be inflationary because there is an unlimited supply of gold, nothing is holding someone back from buying 1 million gold (the supply is infinite). The demand is of course based on how much you need and how much you are willing to pay.
2) Gold for dollars using a 3rd party which relies on account hacks or botting. This is also inflationary, they are using bots to artificially generate tons of gold. There is nothing stopping them from doing this over and over and over (and as we know oversight by Blizzard is nonexistent, except in the case of the glider program).
3) Gold for dollars using a player to player model. I argue this isn't as inflationary since there are two limits: how much time player 1 has to generate gold, and how much player 2 is willing to pay. Here the currency is tied to time, which is the only thing of real measure in MMOs.
I could see #3 being doable if the company got a fee like 20% or whatever. That's money in their pocket, gold in player 2s pocket, and money in player 1s pocket, if they were able to secure it properly.
BubblePriest Mar 30th 2010 9:52PM
You should check out EVE's system. Players can buy game time (with real money) which they can sell to other players in-game. Essentially they're buying gold, but not adding any to the economy. The EVE fans I've talked to really liked the system.
The developers have also posted a lot of stuff about their operations against RMT in EVE which I read once and found kind of interesting. They found that when they went after all the gold farmers, the server performance dramatically increased, and the in-game economy prices dropped quite a bit.
It's worth a look if you're curious.
roellish Mar 30th 2010 11:23PM
That isn't an opinion. The problem with MMO's is that there is no limit on how much in-game currency can be created. As long as people kill stuff more money is being pumped into the game. Unless the game also provides a way for players to destroy the money, inflation is inevitable. If players are permitted to purchase things with RL money a major mechanic for destroying in game currency is bypassed and it starts to pile up.
The real drawback to this is that the bypass is only one way. Prices relating to in-game currency don't drop to balance they way they should. Instead they increase to match the "value" being charged for RL money. Pretty soon there is so much in-game currency floating around that it also starts to drive up the cost in terms of RL money. It's a very bad idea.
Ylei Mar 31st 2010 3:58AM
ahh, but EVE does have a money sink, a massive money sink. In EVE almost everything you use is player made, and it's destroyable, and lootable. say you just splurged on a nice new assault frigate with T2 modules and ammo, all player made. You go out to losec to see what it can do but you're not careful and run into a pirate gate camp. They try to ransom you for half of what you just paid for your new ship/equipment, but of course you're broke now. They blow your ship up and it's destroyed, along with a portion of everything in it, and loot the wreck for whatever wasn't destroyed. Maybe they pod you causing you to have to re-invest in a medclone, so that's even more money lost.
The player run economy completely dwarfs anything WoW has going on, but that's because you have 300,000 + players all on the *same server*, where WoW has only a few thousand on each, maybe 10,000 per faction on their most overpopulated servers. Add to that the fact that almost everything you use in game is player made, the amount of money changing hands on a daily basis is staggering. CCP, the game developer, has even hired a real world economist to help track it and guide it when possible.
onetrueping Mar 31st 2010 5:33AM
Ah, to clarify, Ylei, every subscriber is in the same WORLD. They aren't all in the same server. The EVE server cluster is huge, with a number of redundant servers covering different clusters of systems. This is why some systems tend to get very, very laggy during peak hours, the server cluster for those systems are handling a huge amount of traffic.
It's a clever system, but since each system is essentially its own "instance," the architecture isn't too much different from that of the older MMOs, like Everquest or FFXI.
snowleopard233 Mar 30th 2010 9:30PM
What we're not seeing here are the long hours Sacco spent in a dank cell being doused with buckets of cold water by Turbine's brainwashing team as they repeatedly yelled at him,
"WHAT IS YOUR CLASS?"
"..sha...sha..shaman"
"WRONG! YOU'RE A BARBARIAN AND YOU LOVE MICROTRANSACTIONS! GET THE HOSE!"
I kid! I kid! Glad to see Turbine's system is working for them. I would hate to see a property as classic as Dungeons and Dragons fall into oblivion and it's always good to have well-made games out there for people to play and enjoy, even I'm personally not interested in them.
devilsei Mar 30th 2010 10:19PM
Do they also make him think he's a little hobbit in the shire's prison, making him sing "My milk cup brings all the hobbits to the shire"?
Sehvekah Mar 30th 2010 11:30PM
Damn it, every time I read this stuff it makes me want to try out DDO even more. Thing is, I know the instant I do that I can kiss the old world, pre-cataclysm "Loremaster" achievements goodbye. I know it's a silly thing to go for, but I wanna do it while I can.
At least there's good financial news for DDO, so I can wait a little while longer to try. I don't really want to repeat what happened with The Matrix Online(I was so damned *sure* I could "try it out later", I kept putting it off, and putting it off, and then they shut off new subscriptions and killed the game, and I never even wandered through the starting areas... Maybe it's better never falling for a doomed game, but I never even gave it a chance and that makes me sad anyways).
But then, with how I started that previous paragraph, I wonder if I learned anything at all from what happened...
Hollow Leviathan Mar 31st 2010 12:11AM
I tried DDO, and the content available to free-to-play characters is about the size of IF, SW, Dun Morogh and Searing Gorge. That's the whole game. You run out of ways to level up.
Also, pure healing classes are unviable, gear upgrades are boring and linear, access to the AH is crippled and you can't have more than the equivalent of 500 gold on your character.
Beatphreek Mar 31st 2010 1:31AM
@Hollow Leviathan
I don't know when you tried it but I played it for a bit last fall and although they level cap you at 4 (not really the same as wow's 4) you can loot the scrolls that bump the level cap to 8 from dungeons (I did). There were a few dungeons that you have to pay to play but for the most part I didn't see any real limitations. It was a fun and from what I could tell completely instanced game with no PVP at all.
psychodude Mar 31st 2010 3:12AM
@Hollow Leviathan: DDO isn't that big, even if you purchase access to new content, the game just isn't as big as WoW. It wasn't the case before they went to microtransactions, and probably never will be either. In all fairness though, they did strive for quality instead of quantity and seeing as to how they don't have a development team and budget the size of Blizzard's they did a pretty good job.
thevitruvianman Mar 31st 2010 3:29AM
@snowleopard233
"THERE... ARE..... FOUR.... LIGHTS!"
Seriously though, I played DDO for a short while when it first came out, then quit and moved on to greener pastures. The problem at the time was that level 12 was the highest you could get, there was only one raid (some kind of dragon), no pvp and it was pretty easy to get the best gear. The actual gameplay was pretty enjoyable but it just didn't have the longevity to keep me interested.
I'm sure it's very different now, but back then, most grinding was done in various instances, and although grouping was a lot of fun and the instances were all pretty well made, you generally had to run the same one a lot of times before you levelled up enough to move on. I particularly remember doing some kind of catacombs (think that was what it was called) full of undead over and over and over. I seem to remember trading was pretty weird too, you could only vendor your items to an NPC, who then resold them to players. There was no AH or other way of trading.
VioletArrows Mar 31st 2010 10:42AM
Actually, DDO has a shaman class, they're just called clerics (you can even balance between healing/elemental/enhance). I don't know if it's because I run with my boyfriend (when he's not running ahead and getting me killed) or if it's because I now have WoW's experiences behind me, but it's actually an easy/fun class to play. At least until the higher levels and you have to start retooling things and automatically be grouped as the healer and never the warpriestess. *mutter*
kerbero9 Mar 30th 2010 9:35PM
Six to one half dozen to the other.
Content aside, most of these F2P MMO consider a mount to be "non-essential" and will be happy to "rent" one to you for $10/month.
JoeHelfrich Mar 30th 2010 10:34PM
Six *of* one, half dozen *of* another.
kerbero9 Mar 31st 2010 12:07AM
/sigh...
I say potato, you say...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/six_of_one,_half_a_dozen_of_the_other
The irony of the whole thing is that both sayings are six *of* one, half dozen *of* another...
Vordune Mar 31st 2010 9:46AM
Remember, people in glass houses sink ships.
Andostre Mar 31st 2010 11:06AM
Ah, yes. The student has become... the hunted.