Breakfast Topic: Are boss mods cheating?
by Chris Cougar 
Apr 5th 2010 at 8:00AM
We all know about popular boss mods such as Deadly Boss Mods and Bigwigs Bossmods, which are add-ons that trigger alert messages and timer bars for boss encounters. These are so popular that it is rare these days to find a raider who is not using such an add-on. Many guilds, in fact, require a Boss Mod add-on for all their raid members, since it is deemed so essential. So why would anyone not use a boss mod?
Well, there are players out there who think that boss mods go too far, cross the line of fairness and are basically a form of cheating. The problem is that boss mods give the player information about something that has not happened yet in the game. They reveal information before the game itself presents that information. Often to the very second, boss mods let the player know exactly what the boss is about to do.
This, some argue, gives the player an unfair advantage and is not how the game was intended to be played. Sure, the default game reveals much of the same information in the form of emotes, cast bars and other clues -- but that is how the game designers wanted to reveal these actions. They intended players to use their intellect and skill to work through these encounters, by observing these cues, and not have an add-on tell them exactly what is going to happen each second of the encounter. What's the challenge in that?
Readers, what do you think? Are boss mods cheating or not? If you use them, do you ever feel guilty? If you don't use them, tell us why.
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
Warhead Apr 5th 2010 8:07AM
I view them as a form of cheating, which is why I won't install DBM. Now, I know that they're accepted by the community at large and by Blizzard, so I don't begrudge anyone who does use them, but I opt not to. I also don't use healing addons, auctioneer, gatherer, etc. Any addon that makes my job playing my character easier is cheating, since it gives me information and utilities that mod-less players lack. I only use a font-changer, Wowhead Looter, and Recount, none of which actually change playing.
Gwen Apr 5th 2010 8:20AM
If you track your DPS via recount, then you are cheating since if Blizzard wanted you to know your DPS, they would put it in-game! You can calculate your DPS yourself by seeing how fast the boss dies while you are attacking and subtract from how fast the boss dies while you aren't attacking. It's simple algebra.
Holgar Apr 5th 2010 8:28AM
Pretty much this
Two years ago I would have written a long post about how boss mods are TOTALLY cheating and anyone who uses them is the scum of the earth but I've mellowed. I accept that other people can and want to use things like DBM but at the same time I don't think they are nessesary if you just use your brain and think on your feet.
I've come to realise a lot of raiders honestly *NEED* somthing like DBM to make up for their tunnel vision/lack of situational awareness. I'm not saying that as an insult but as a fact when your obsesssing over DPS or Grid like most raiders do you lose focus on whats going on around you.
DBM is a bit of a bandaid fix to that problem and as such is now widely regarded as "MANDITORY" when it honestly shouldn't be. I've tanked plenty of stuff in wrath and healed Kara in BC without boss mods and done just fine.
Haro Apr 5th 2010 9:39AM
I can't see this as a form of cheating for a very simple reason: this game is blizzard's, and they make the rules. They decide what's fair and unfair. If they acknowledge DBM with their silence on the matter, then it's a fair means to an end.
It's different in games like FFXI, where Square specifically says that any UI modification is against the rules (even something as harmless as an exp/hour counter or a windower). Then again, in this case, this rule is not enforced by Square for harmless mods, so one could argue how it's possible to cheat against a rule that is not enforced.
@Holgar: i am definitely one of those players who need DBM. Somtimes i find difficult to realize in split seconds that i'm standing on the fire, so the warning is very welcome: it saves me maybe a second or two of receiving a DoT that makes my healer's life more complicated. The first times i confront a boss, this is essential... after i get used to him, usually in-game cues like the boss's taunts are enough to make me realize what's going to happen.
Xecnamalain Apr 5th 2010 9:48AM
Saying DBM and BW is cheating would be like saying watching a Tankspot Video is cheating because Blizz wants you to experience it yourself.
DBM is something of an "Active strategy guide". It doesn't give you an unfair advantage, exploit design flaws, ect.
At most (IMO) we could call using add-ons in general "Easy mode", but "cheating" is a bit extreme. Lord know if Blizz thought it was cheating, they would have banned it. =/
bloodfyr Apr 5th 2010 10:15AM
Or of course, one can argue that Blizz can't possibly cater to every person's needs in interface design, so they allow for the use of mods. Ones that they consider cheating get disabled, simple enough.
I live and die by DBM sometimes. When I'm healing, ESPECIALLY in tight progression fights, I don't really have time to look anywhere other than Grid. Spending more than a second looking at the ground, or trying to find the boss and get his cast bar takes time away from Grid, and people die. DBM yells at me and my guild yells at me on Vent and I move without really having to look away from the bars.
Is this really an ideal situation? No. Honestly, I would love the freedom of being able to look at the fight for once (I can honestly tell you that I don't know what bosses look like until we have them farm) and see all those shiney spell effects that Blizz worked so hard to create. But it's just how the system works. The healing environment is incredibly reactionary...if you don't have a heal nearly ready the SECOND the tank takes a hit, you're running the risk of a wipe. Granted, ICC isn't nearly as bad as Ulduar was, but it's still much of the same.
So yes, I still use DBM. No, I don't consider it cheating. If DBM is cheating, so is announcing boss moves in Ventrilo.
Literaltruth Apr 5th 2010 11:06AM
I think that you give the argument against yourself in this post. If Blizzard said they're okay with it, then it's not cheating. I believe Blizzard have said in the past that if addons become absolutely necessary to play then they may incorporate some feature of them into the default UI (the changed to quest tracking after the ubiquity of addons like Questhelper and the addition of threat meters when it was accepted that Omen was pretty much a necessity are recent examples of this that come to mind). However at the same time they have also said that there is some functionality that addons provide which they recognise as necessary for certain aspects of play but that they are happy to let addon writers continue to provide. This may be because they couldn't improve on what's already there in the addon or maybe it's since those that don't play that aspect of the game don't need the resource hog. I'd say that addons like DBM fall into that second category of functionality.
I wouldn't be suprised if Blizzard designs raid encounters now with the idea in mind that boss mods will be active. But for those that don't raid, they don't want to burden the default UI with the resources it takes up. I think it's telling that in more recent 5mans (5 man ToC is a good example of this) you get warnings given in the default UI and this is perhaps recognition that encounters are designed round these mods - but not everyone running a 5man will have them.
Again, I think the assumption on the part of the author of the topic and the post that I'm replying to is essentially flawed - Blizzard knows that these mods exist, knows the kind of info available to players through them and designs accordingly. It would be extremely easy to break these mods if they wanted to - either by banning them outright or by putting more randomness into encounters (enrages, for example, could have a random component rather than being predictable to the second or bosses abilities could be hidden from the combat logs and only the damage taken could be recorded or, again, the use of abilites could be more randomised).
kabshiel Apr 5th 2010 2:35PM
Before these mods, people would break out their stopwatch to track boss abilities. Was that cheating?
Vogie Apr 5th 2010 3:25PM
I agree with Xecnamalain... DBM & the like are active strategy guides.
I've learned most of the fights with my tank & dps roles, and then can do any aspect (Frost tank, Lock DPS or Shaman heal) from that point on with or without the addon. Those things are nice to have, and when I'm on my desktop I love 'em. However, I also raid on my crappy lappy without all those things (although I never raid heal more than a 10 man on the default UI), and no one seems to notice a difference
Aftermathmatical Apr 5th 2010 4:31PM
I only read the post I'm replying to and the response after that about recount, so if someone already said this excuse me.
1. If blizzard considered it cheating they would remove it.
2. They have things exactly like some dbm things in the game, just in different forms or not as BOOM POW POP as dbm.
and...
3. If a solid raid who know what they are doing, face and encounter, they all use dbm, they even have the gear, and still don't down the boss... is that really cheating? (And that IF it is, could only apply IF you ignore no. 1.)
sooper Apr 5th 2010 4:56PM
Hmm, I see a few retorts:
“If it was cheating they’d remove it from the game.” – Does that mean that using exploits to your advantage are not cheating until it is removed from the game? In that case, no one should ever be penalized retroactively for abusing game mechanics since at the time the game allowed it – it was not cheating. (According to that argument)
“If DBM is cheating then so is shouting it out in Ventrilo.” – Um, no, it doesn’t. There’s a difference between the instincts of a warrior or hunter, compared to someone else that’s never seen combat or danger. If someone notices something and announces it using their instincts/reflexes, it’s not cheating. If someone reads it because the computer knows, when they couldn’t tell you otherwise… that’s a different argument.
“If this is cheating then so are addons.” – maybe addons are cheating…
Though I can’t play without DBM, I have to admit that the above are defensive excuses, not reasons, as to why DBM isn’t cheating. Use the real world. If you had a sibling about to give you a wet willy, and DBM flashed across your eyes, “WET WILLY IN 5…4…3…” You would never get hit by a wet willy and if you did, you deserve it just as much as you would deserve being burned by “standing in the fire”. But if you used your instincts and the info provided (visibly and audibly) and dodged said wet willy, then you’re one bad mamajama.
Sho’nuff
It’s not cheating because the game doesn’t have the mind to feel disadvantaged. The game won’t QQ the forums and beg Blizzard to nerf you. It IS cheating if it were against another live, conscious, being. For example, back when the Patriots were documenting other team practices secretly and then countering them. I love the Patriots btw, but still, that’s not fair. The OTHER teams felt violated and disadvantaged and therefore, it was cheating.
My argument in favor of DBM would be that it’s fair as long as everyone is allowed too. If there was a PvP mod that exposed the enemy intent in the arena to the point that you never had to pay close attention, you predict and countered everything that would occur… THAT would be cheating. PvE should be treated the same.
Who knows, boss fights and encounters COULD feel a little more alive, a lot less robotic, and maybe even easier.
Just trying to give a balanced opinion. Long live DBM. A lot of bosses couldn’t be done without it.
… or could they?...
Nah.
Hollow Leviathan Apr 5th 2010 5:41PM
Using bossmods is not the same as using exploits, because exploits are unintended uses of the video game, while bossmods are using the addon structure that blizzard actively develops and supports.
If Blizzard considered it cheating, it would be removed, WHICH HAS HAPPENED. Decursive was crippled because Blizzard disliked it's function, among other addons that were deliberately crippled or disabled in functionality.
Blizzard is watching us play, and they manipulate both the default game UI and the functionality of LUA addons actively. They only add function to the default UI when they deem it adsolutely necessary. They only finally added limited threat meters because everyone has to deal with threat.
Bossmods are only for the hardcore, dealing with bleeding edge content. In this regard, Blizzard takes a permissive control instead of active control of the player experience.
ash Apr 5th 2010 6:50PM
I think when you get right down to it they are a kind of form of cheating, but I still use them. I am basically getting strategies fed to me for stuff I have not already done in many cases. Its a trade off between utility and fun, or something like that. Especially if you are more casual you do not always have a lot of time to brush up on strategies for every single boss and DBM helps in this respect. Besides making things easier(i.e. cheating) mods like DBM also account for some of Blizzards design shortfalls. In this case trying to compensate for shortfalls is not a bad thing, but I don't think anyone should try to act virtuous and not call it cheating when that's what it is essentially, even if somewhat benign.
Eisengel Apr 6th 2010 12:07AM
I never used any mods until I was able to briefly get into a raiding guild in mid-BC. I still use the package they defined; Recount, Omen, DBM, and XPerl.
I've gotten very used to XPerl, but, honestly, I don't really think I need the others. I certainly enjoyed the game more I think when my performance wasn't summed up in a single number, and I didn't know precisely when the next boss ability or phase change was coming. It takes some of the fun and mystery out of it I think and makes the game less interactive. When you can see precisely how much damage you're doing, and you know precisely when the next ability is happening... you don't have to think about much, because you can see all the info right in front of you.
I never really thought about it... but I think when Cat comes around I'll keep XPerl (and probably Atlasloot... because it saves me tabbing out to wowhead), but will likely turn off DBM, Recount and Omen unless I'm in a progression raid.
Anni May 15th 2010 8:01PM
If DBM was cheating everyone would always move out of fire and never get a one shot death from ony's fire breath..Truth be told some players need a little prompting...
Shnitzki Apr 5th 2010 8:06AM
I've been tanking stuff without DBM or BWs. Usually people shout out in vent whats going to happen anyway so I just deal with it. Typically I've actually studied each fight on wowhead or tankspot for awhile before hand so while I don't know the precise second that something is going to happen, I can still deal with it fine.
Kittens Apr 5th 2010 11:40AM
Then again, if you react to people shouting about events in vent, you are probably reacting to the stuff they see with their DBM :)
I know some people that do not use addons because they feel that anything added to what Blizz has already created 'is not how the game is supposed to be played'. And sure they do fine without them. Could be improved at some points if they had the addons, but no real issues (though I have yet to see them raid healing or something).
But then I have these same people asking me for their dps from my recount, sometimes rely on others to tell them over vent to stop casting or something when DBM tells us to, and see them asking others for their gearscores. That seems a little silly to me.. then they might as well just use the addons themselves. I always feel a little irritated when they ask me for the xth time that day but then get angry when I tell them what I just said.
Anyway as for the use of addons.. Blizz is fine with them, they don't consider it cheating and I am glad to have them :)
Colin Apr 5th 2010 12:19PM
I don't mind people who can keep track of everything without DBM, but I can't stand when people refuse to install it, but still want you to call out every little thing. I have to call out everything in our 10 man group because of a warlock who won't use addons, and it distracts me from tanking. I've missed popping a cooldown (resulting in a wipe) because I was busy yelling for someone to get out of the fire/stack on the tank/whatever.
McRaider Apr 5th 2010 12:50PM
Tanking without DBM isn't much of a problem to be honest. 90% of the time all you need to do is to switch aggro with another tank at specific time (like when tank has a set amount of stacks) and I personally don't look at the boss mod addon when to taunt. I put the other tank into focus and stare at his debuffs all the time. The only crucial thing I need to know is the enrage timer, because in fights like Festergut, I can save the repair costs of two players (including me) by timing DI to the exact time when enrage hits, because when festergut enrages, it's 1 sec max until everyone but the tanks are dead. Of course I could get a stopwatch to stare at to time with, but remember that a stopwatch is already implemented to wow so the addon only "helps me remember" the enrage.
Noz. Apr 5th 2010 8:09AM
For a long time, due to using a Mac, i didn't use DBM. Now with Curse Client 4, i have it downloading, running and i love it.
Yes, it does tell you information that us gonna happen, but you have to interpret it.
How many time do i have left ?