The Daily Blues

Lots of blue posts today with the release of all the Cataclysm info.
Table of Contents
Ghostcrawler
Ghostcrawler -- Buff desparityMy raid sat me, not because I didn't bring a useful chunk of raid synergy, but because some other guy brought it in a more convenient package. I'm sticking with the guild though. I love those guys, even though they don't let me play much, and I think they're going places with their penchant for min / maxxing.
Seriously though, we'd like to iron out some of the disparities where one buff requires more maintenance or RNG or talent points than another, but I have a hard time imagining that many players are really being negative impacted by the relative convenience of identical buffs.
Pushing for more awesome buffs isn't going to lead to more awesome buffs. It's going to lead to more homogenization and less group synergy overall. We'd be in a land where every raid buff or debuff just passively radiates a 1% bonus or whatever so that your group composition had an almost trivial contribution to your success. I'm not sure that would be as much fun though. We don't think the buffs have to be identical. They just have to be close enough that it isn't a major consideration for most reasonable guilds or pugs.
Seriously though, we'd like to iron out some of the disparities where one buff requires more maintenance or RNG or talent points than another, but I have a hard time imagining that many players are really being negative impacted by the relative convenience of identical buffs.
Pushing for more awesome buffs isn't going to lead to more awesome buffs. It's going to lead to more homogenization and less group synergy overall. We'd be in a land where every raid buff or debuff just passively radiates a 1% bonus or whatever so that your group composition had an almost trivial contribution to your success. I'm not sure that would be as much fun though. We don't think the buffs have to be identical. They just have to be close enough that it isn't a major consideration for most reasonable guilds or pugs.
Ghostcrawler -- What does Ghostcrawler play?I figured if I made the class I play really overpowered that nobody would notice. I thought I could slip it past my coworkers and the thousands of people who work at Blizzard. I figured for all their vaunted "theorycrafting " that the community would never catch on. Most importantly, I figured being able to own folks in PvP was worth risking my amazing and much beloved job for.
Or maybe it's just that all the classes and specs played by Blizzard employees are overpowered. :)
--
Truth be told, I tend to gravitate towards specs that are under-represented or deemed underpowered because I want to understand first-hand what their problems are. There also tends to be less competition for spots among all the flavor of the month specs. :)
Or maybe it's just that all the classes and specs played by Blizzard employees are overpowered. :)
--
Truth be told, I tend to gravitate towards specs that are under-represented or deemed underpowered because I want to understand first-hand what their problems are. There also tends to be less competition for spots among all the flavor of the month specs. :)
Ghostcrawler -- Dungeon/badge farmingSome players like having a reason to still visit older content and a reason to do something on nights other than raid night, while other players want to be able to log in, raid, and be done for the week. It's hard to provide an incentive structure compelling enough for the first guy without the second feeling like he has to grind. The emblem system has a natural tapering off period where you start to get everything you need and have less and less a reason to keep earning them. But it can feel pretty overwhelming when a new tier starts and you're counting up the hundreds of badges you're eventually going to need.
The problem, and something for which we have a solution, is that the costs are balanced around the maximum badge income per week, which means doing both raids, the weekly raid quest, the weekly Icecrown raid quest, and a heroic run every night. That's a bit much for most players, but since the option is there, some feel like they have to do it. On the other hand, if you have more than one character you care about, then you could burn yourself out quick.
There are alternatives though. As a simple example, if you could run all your Dungeon Finder groups in one or two nights for the week without having to log on every night, it might feel less grindy to you. (Again, for some players doing anything more than a few times is going to feel grindy, but it's impossible for us to develop content faster than players can consume it.)
The problem, and something for which we have a solution, is that the costs are balanced around the maximum badge income per week, which means doing both raids, the weekly raid quest, the weekly Icecrown raid quest, and a heroic run every night. That's a bit much for most players, but since the option is there, some feel like they have to do it. On the other hand, if you have more than one character you care about, then you could burn yourself out quick.
There are alternatives though. As a simple example, if you could run all your Dungeon Finder groups in one or two nights for the week without having to log on every night, it might feel less grindy to you. (Again, for some players doing anything more than a few times is going to feel grindy, but it's impossible for us to develop content faster than players can consume it.)
Ghostcrawler -- Normal vs heroic raidsSo... couple of thoughts here.
I think two difficulty modes work better when the following are true:
-- You don't need to do the normal version 100 times before doing the heroic version.
-- You aren't running both normal and heroic every week (or even 10 vs. 25 every week).
It feels more like a difficulty selection when the players who want an extra challenge can go hit that challenge right away. When you have to run the normal version a lot first, you just risk burning out faster, and you also learn the encounter specifics so well that by the time you hit heroics, the basics aren't a challenge any longer.
I think two difficulty modes work better when the following are true:
-- You don't need to do the normal version 100 times before doing the heroic version.
-- You aren't running both normal and heroic every week (or even 10 vs. 25 every week).
It feels more like a difficulty selection when the players who want an extra challenge can go hit that challenge right away. When you have to run the normal version a lot first, you just risk burning out faster, and you also learn the encounter specifics so well that by the time you hit heroics, the basics aren't a challenge any longer.
Ghostcrawler -- Rage starvationYou get rage starved on low level content (this isn't going away)
It will still be much better than it is today. You will get more rage per damage done and for damage mitigated or avoided. Compare the amount by which your health increases over time to the amount by which boss damage increases over time. The second is larger and since we're scaling around the former in the future, the delta should be smaller than it is today.
We're balanced around infinite rage, which hurts us while OTing (this doesn't seem to be going away)
Nobody should have infinite rage, therefore the delta between tank and OT (and dps warrior for that matter) shouldn't be as drastic. If there's a fight where an OT literally has to stay in full tanking gear and spec but then never takes much damage (say for example you just sit there and dps until phase 4 at which point you have to handle adds that never appear again) then you might have low rage, but then we probably made a bad encounter.
It will still be much better than it is today. You will get more rage per damage done and for damage mitigated or avoided. Compare the amount by which your health increases over time to the amount by which boss damage increases over time. The second is larger and since we're scaling around the former in the future, the delta should be smaller than it is today.
We're balanced around infinite rage, which hurts us while OTing (this doesn't seem to be going away)
Nobody should have infinite rage, therefore the delta between tank and OT (and dps warrior for that matter) shouldn't be as drastic. If there's a fight where an OT literally has to stay in full tanking gear and spec but then never takes much damage (say for example you just sit there and dps until phase 4 at which point you have to handle adds that never appear again) then you might have low rage, but then we probably made a bad encounter.
Ghostcrawler -- Ret and enhance mana in CataclysmRetribution and Enhancement in Cataclysm are unlikely to ever have to worry about mana much. That part isn't changing. My point was that because they both have cooldown limited gameplay, we need to make sure there are enough decisions going on that the specs A) aren't boring and B) have some variance in performance depending on the skill of the player playing them. I'd agree that Enhance needs less "new stuff" than Ret, and in any case we're talking more about a new talent or two and less that you now have combo points to manage.
Ghostcrawler -- Rage vs staminaAs your health increases, the rage you get per damage point decreases. However as you go into harder content, you are going to be taken a lot more damage. The intention is that you get about the same rage income no matter how the boss actually deals damage (fast vs. slow attacks, or raid auras vs. adds for instance).
You are also getting rage from fully avoided or partially mitigated hits, which is huge.
You can, I suppose, try to strip off all your Stamina gear in order to generate more rage, but you'll have survivability problems, and we have a mechanic in place to make sure tank damage and threat while tanking maintains high anyway.
You are also getting rage from fully avoided or partially mitigated hits, which is huge.
You can, I suppose, try to strip off all your Stamina gear in order to generate more rage, but you'll have survivability problems, and we have a mechanic in place to make sure tank damage and threat while tanking maintains high anyway.
Ghostcrawler -- Rage generationOkay, GC - but you do realize that as your gear improves and you gain more health, your rage income decreases on older content, right? Which means that players are still going to be rage-starved on older content, especially if that older content is balanced around a certain health ratio.
True, but it will be worlds better than it is today for a few reasons. 1) You will be getting more rage per swing, since you won't be penalized for your lower dps relative to Arms / Fury. 2) You will be getting full rage on anything avoided, mitigated or absorbed. 3) You have shouts and things to fill in the gaps. 4) Your dps when tanking will be higher than it is today. 5) If we go with scaling bosses, as we've suggested we might do, then you will also crit more often on weaker creatures.
If after all that you still feel like you don't have enough rage, then pull things faster. :)
True, but it will be worlds better than it is today for a few reasons. 1) You will be getting more rage per swing, since you won't be penalized for your lower dps relative to Arms / Fury. 2) You will be getting full rage on anything avoided, mitigated or absorbed. 3) You have shouts and things to fill in the gaps. 4) Your dps when tanking will be higher than it is today. 5) If we go with scaling bosses, as we've suggested we might do, then you will also crit more often on weaker creatures.
If after all that you still feel like you don't have enough rage, then pull things faster. :)
Other
Nethaera -- Eyonix leaving is a problem?Is WoW finally starting to show cracks? I'm kinda worried now o.o
Ever onward my friend. We have so much more in store. Though we will miss him, our paths are merely taking different directions.
Ever onward my friend. We have so much more in store. Though we will miss him, our paths are merely taking different directions.
Zarhym -- PvP vs PvE in the Cataclysm mechanicsNo one here approached dispel mechanics with the idea that PvP takes precedence over PvE, so there's little reason to object in that regard. The changes to class systems in Cataclysm we've announced thus far are being proposed to make the game better, both in terms of PvP and PvE. Mind you, we have a host of changes planned for every class we plan to share in the future. Before providing overviews of our goals for each class though, we wanted to give you a look at some changes to more broad systems.
While the feedback is welcomed, I'd caution players to consider this information with an open mind, rather than directly translating the proposed changes into the class systems of Wrath of the Lich King.
While the feedback is welcomed, I'd caution players to consider this information with an open mind, rather than directly translating the proposed changes into the class systems of Wrath of the Lich King.
Blizzard
Filed under: The Daily Blues






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Lemons Apr 5th 2010 11:28PM
"As a simple example, if you could run all your Dungeon Finder groups in one or two nights for the week without having to log on every night, it might feel less grindy to you."
Jeez, I wish they would do something like this. I'd gladly knock out all my randoms for the week in one day instead of being forced to doggedly log on each and every day just to bash out a random regardless of whether or not I really want to.
Yea yea I know what you're going to say: "no one is forcing you to do anything." Well that's true, to broaden that statement no one can force you to do anything period, but they can make it so your best interests are served by doing something. My interests are getting teh epic lewtz...thus I log on pretty much every day.
Quill2006 Apr 6th 2010 12:02AM
Agreed; I'd much rather be able to make up for the times I can't play as much as I want to during my free time later in the week. I'm at the point where I'm desperately in need of frost badges to improve my gear, but Triumph does nothing for me, so I tend to log in, run the random, and log out on busy nights when I really should go to sleep. Then on the weekends when I have free time, I feel like there isn't much to do, once I've run the random and (hopefully) gotten into a pug or two. Being able to do 5 weekly randoms over two or three nights would be fantastic.
Oteo Apr 6th 2010 12:03AM
Perhaps it would be helpful if, say, they lowered the badge cost of items but also capped how many you could get in a week* to give players more options in how they get their badges, so they don't feel like they must exhaust ALL options to get their badges. So, instead of "To get the maximum number of Frost badges I need to down all ICC bosses, AND do the weekly raid AND do a random heroic every day!" you have "To get the maximum number of badges I could down all ICC bosses, or maybe only down 5 and do two heroics today, or down two ICC bosses and do the weekly..."
Waiting for somebody to punch a major hole in this idea in 3...2...1...
*I'm aware there's already a cap of sorts, but I hope the difference is clear
Jamie Apr 6th 2010 12:12AM
WTB Weekly Quest: Objective kill 7 heroic bosses.
Kroof Apr 6th 2010 1:47AM
I would love to see a system where you can earn a maximum number of emblems per week. What I mean by that is I can do one random heroic ever day for 7 days and get 14 emblems of frost.
OR
I can do 7 random heroics on Sunday and get 14 emblems of frost.
OR
I can run two randoms on Wednesday, one on Thursday, take two days off and run four randoms on Sunday and earn a total of 14 emblems of frost.
No matter how I do it after I have earned those 14 I will only earn triumph emblems until the week resets on Tuesday.
This way I could run some random heroics a few times throughout the week and get my maximum emblems. Without having to worry about missing a day or feel like I need to do some terrible grindfest.
Noctune Apr 9th 2010 8:30AM
make them Weekly Dungons Q instead of daily !!!!!
perhaps tells you to kill 2 bosses every week or somthing. i dunno but i also dislike the current system and i DON'T play everyday ... i can't
Wowcoholic Apr 6th 2010 12:13PM
Agreed. What's stopping Blizzard from making a weekly random dungeon quest that grants you 14 Frost Emblems for doing 7/7 randoms completed?
You could log in, do three in one day, then log in two days later and finish up. How is that not win?
Life happens, I don't want to feel penalized and miss my frosts because of it.
Rob Apr 6th 2010 12:53PM
It's tough to balance what the community wants vs what you want. You want to login once a week on all of your level-capped toons, do a heroic, and call it good. However, this would lead to issues where nobody, esp tanks, are running heroics towards the end of the week. Queue times could soar, and all you have left are the bad/inexperienced tanks, which isn't much fun for others.
Even though this system feels grindy, my perchance is to say that its probably fine. I have 6 80s. Do i log into every one and do a heroic daily every day? No way. I have my raid toon that i care about gear on, and i have every other toon, who will probably never see a piece of frost gear. Even my raidy character, i don't login to every day. But i'm a casual player. The point is for just about all of us, we're just going to be raiding with one toon on progression content, and the rest of our toons will never be as well geared. I think that's how blizz intends it; and we just need to get out of the mentality that "I NEED TO RUN X EVERY DAY/WEEK".
I was looking for ICC10 pugs, for example, this weekend. None of them worked out, so instead of going crazy with fail pugs on monday night i just decided it wasn't going to happen and did other things. My guildie on the other hand felt a burning need that he HAD to do ICC10 so he sat in fail pug after fail pug (they kicked him out for gear issues, idk why), and he went kinda crazy.
My advice to those people is that its just a game, so what if you don't get your tier piece this week. Its not that important, and if it is, then your priorities aren't straight.
Colleen Apr 6th 2010 2:24PM
After reading Rob's post, something occurred to me.
It's definitely going to be a problem if people can grind out their heroics in one day. I imagine hard core gamers logging in on Tuesday and getting their 14 badges immediately.
What if they implemented a tiered system instead? For example:
Tuesday 1 heroic, Wednesday 2 heroics, Thursday 3 heroics etc, so that when you get to Monday you can potentially do all of the heroics that day. At least this way you could sort of control the queues a little bit more. There would still need to be a main quest that the smaller quests add up to or something. I can't imagine the programming it would take to do that, though.
Rubitard Apr 5th 2010 11:59PM
I'm still a fan of the more story-based daily or weekly dungeon quest. I'd like to see them opened up to all sorts of dungeons. It may not be a challenge to waltz into Uldaman and grab something as a level 80 toon, but perhaps something could be done in terms of rewarding rep, or in terms of some level-appropriate boss that crops up in some old instances that a 5-man group must go in and conquer, like how the Headless Horseman shows up in the SM graveyard around a certain time of year.
Transit Apr 6th 2010 12:52AM
From 'Ghostcrawler -- Rage generation'
"If we go with scaling bosses, as we've suggested we might do, then you will also crit more often on weaker creatures."
First I have heard of scaling bosses. What do they mean exactly? As you get better gear, bosses get harder? What happens with a group with a wide variety of gear scores?
my mourningangel Apr 6th 2010 1:03AM
They're talked about this before. Basically, as the bosses get harder, players will require more Crit/Hit/etc to have the same effect. You can look at it as the bosses level effectively increasing at higher tiers of content. Of course this means that, while any DPS worth their stripes will be super mega over hit cap for lower levels of content, and so will outgear it by what could be a wider margin than we do today ("OK, I'll put on my low hit gear... wow! I should have a 92% crit chance this run! Super awesome...") we'll also have bigger stat lumps on gear.
Aldheim Apr 6th 2010 1:55AM
I think GC means the idea that, rather than our current system of "skull = 3 levels higher and caps remain the same for the whole expansion," bosses will be of different levels and have different interactions with character level. Maybe Nefarian is a level 88 boss, but Deathwing is level 90.
Drad Apr 6th 2010 1:40AM
"Truth be told, I tend to gravitate towards specs that are under-represented or deemed underpowered because I want to understand first-hand what their problems are. There also tends to be less competition for spots among all the flavor of the month specs. :) "
I wonder if GC plays a Balance Druid or an Ele Shammy. Makes ya wonder........
V Magius Apr 6th 2010 12:05PM
I'm thinking at work, he probably plays everything. Any cookie cutter combination available. In his position, he needs to know how does spell A work under Class B with talent build C and gear set D if I adjust the coefficient from 1 to .5-1.5 in increments of .25.
At home, he probably puts the monitor against the glass and the keyboard in the terrarium so his pet crabs can play for him. Dual boxing it, Bubbles is an amazing tank and Clawful is a very good reactionary healer. If they fail, it's seafood for lunch tomorrow. ;)
blozt Apr 6th 2010 3:13AM
What bothers me about heroics grinding isn't that they need to be done once a day but that we have to go back to content that is soooo undertuned for the numbers we can put out nowadays, and we have to do it with complete strangers. (Yes, sure, I can put on a set of greens and join with guildies only, but... why would I do that?)
I've stopped doing daily heroics completely, and I only have 1 t10 piece so far. I just hate them so much.
whited731 Apr 6th 2010 8:39AM
"Nobody should have infinite rage" Tell that to any driver on the road within a 100yd radius of my mother.
Mom "I just dont understand how people can get such road rage"
Me " Thats because youre a cant be infected, youre a carrier,,, like an ebola monkey"
Eg Apr 6th 2010 10:58AM
Haha! Best comment evar.
dinnercoat Apr 6th 2010 10:52AM
"I'd agree that Enhance needs less "new stuff" than Ret, and in any case we're talking more about a new talent or two and less that you now have combo points to manage."
Ret and Enhance are getting combo points?
Wowcoholic Apr 6th 2010 12:21PM
I saw that too...and I'm like huh?