Clarification on Cataclysm dispel mechanics
by Anne Stickney 
Apr 6th 2010 at 5:00PM
Yesterday's news on the upcoming dispel mechanic changes coming in Cataclysm raised a lot of questions among players worried about how the changes will affect their particular class. Today, Zarhym clarified some of these changes surrounding dispel mechanics, particularly how it will work with the shaman and druid classes. To the concerns about requiring talent points being spent for particular buffs -- something that Blizzard has said time and time again they wanted to move away from -- Zarhym stated, "This is specifically an example of a utility talent we were referring to. Rather than going for all of the "increase your damage/healing by X" talents of today, you'll more often be choosing from talents which will add utility to existing spells and abilities, or just plain give you new spells or abilities. "
As to the concerns that the changes were suggesting that PvP is now going to take precedence over PvE, Zarhym had this to say:
"No one here approached dispel mechanics with the idea that PvP takes precedence over PvE, so there's little reason to object in that regard. The changes to class systems in Cataclysm we've announced thus far are being proposed to make the game better, both in terms of PvP and PvE. Mind you, we have a host of changes planned for every class we plan to share in the future. Before providing overviews of our goals for each class though, we wanted to give you a look at some changes to more broad systems.
While the feedback is welcomed, I'd caution players to consider this information with an open mind, rather than directly translating the proposed changes into the class systems of Wrath of the Lich King. "
In addition, Zarhym had a few other clarifications to make; check them out after the break.
As to the concerns that the changes were suggesting that PvP is now going to take precedence over PvE, Zarhym had this to say:
"No one here approached dispel mechanics with the idea that PvP takes precedence over PvE, so there's little reason to object in that regard. The changes to class systems in Cataclysm we've announced thus far are being proposed to make the game better, both in terms of PvP and PvE. Mind you, we have a host of changes planned for every class we plan to share in the future. Before providing overviews of our goals for each class though, we wanted to give you a look at some changes to more broad systems.
While the feedback is welcomed, I'd caution players to consider this information with an open mind, rather than directly translating the proposed changes into the class systems of Wrath of the Lich King. "
In addition, Zarhym had a few other clarifications to make; check them out after the break.
ZarhymBased on a lot of feedback and concerns being raised in this thread, I'd like to make a few clarifications in no particular order.
- Shaman will get Cleanse Spirit as a base spell that removes curses. Restoration will have a talent to add magic dispelling (on friends or enemies) to Cleanse Spirit.
- We recognize this change risks making shaman too vulnerable to rogue and hunter poisons in PvP (and especially mind-numbing), and we might very well offer a talent or mechanic to compensate for that.
- We also recognize the challenge for magic-based controllers in PvP, say mages, to handle teams with druid healers and we might have to reconsider the druid ability to avoid Polymorph. We think it's important for PvE reasons for all healers to be able to dispel magic however.
- For the most part, talents that reduce a chance to be dispelled are going away. We want dispels to be more expensive, but we also want them to be effective when you do choose to use them, so we want to downplay the random aspect. Mechanics such as Unholy Blight granting dispel immunity, or rogues reapplying poisons so quickly will be handled on an individual basis. We've had a little bit of an arms race going on because some of those debuffs could be removed so trivially; but on the other hand, death knights and rogues need those debuffs to function. Balancing that will be an ongoing process.
- We also want to downplay the role of "junk buffs" that protect dispels. Our usual course of action here is to make those buffs undispellable such that you dispel the thing you actually want to dispel.
- If we didn't mention a specific dispel mechanic (like Shield Slam), then you can assume it probably isn't changing, at least for now. A lot may change in beta.
- We want to stress yet again that one of our goals behind these changes was to help us design 5-player dungeons and 10-player raids. Currently having the ability to remove, say, a poison or disease can make an encounter go from challenging to easy, yet not every group has those abilities. With this new matrix, the encounter designers can make anything that must be dispelled a magical effect, while curses, poisons or diseases would be in the category of helping you win, but not an instant wipe if you lose. In 25-player raids, we have more flexibility to ask you to dispel more types of effects.
- We understand that in some cases we are making changes that have been core to some classes for a long time (shaman losing poison and disease dispel for instance). While we don't want to make any beloved classes, or even spells unrecognizable to players who have stuck with that class for years, Cataclysm is also an opportunity for us to fix some of the class systems and mechanic issues we've had for a long time. We have to be careful about having too many sacred cows that keep us from being able to iterate on the design. The dispel matrix we had was somewhat arbitrary and could change a PvE encounter or PvP battle dramatically, almost in a binary manner, depending on what dispels were available to the group involved. When dispelling is trivial, either because it's too easy or because someone is capable of dispelling too many things, then neither PvE or PvP feel as strategic or tactical as we think they ideally could be.
- Defensive dispels (say, a shaman removing a debuff from an ally) should always hit. We don't want healers to have to stack +hit for PvE. When you are dispelling buffs on an enemy, you will still have a chance to miss.
This does clear up a few points, and concerns raised about the removal of the druid classes immunity to polymorph while shapeshifted affecting not only restoration, but feral druids were addressed as well. Blizzard is currently considering a Feral talent designed to give Feral forms the polymorph immunity, while trees will remain completely sheep-able.
Hopefully the upcoming class previews will shed even more light on the mechanic changes and how they affect individual classes, as well as healers as a whole. Either way, one thing has been made entirely clear -- as of Cataclysm, the game is going to play a lot differently than what we're used to. Stay tuned for more changes and updates as they come in.
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Katalliaan Apr 6th 2010 5:13PM
So.. does this mean that shaman will lose Purge?
Karmatrain Apr 6th 2010 5:30PM
Probably not b/c remember in the WarCraft games purge could be used on ally's although it would hinder move speed of that target
Dicon Apr 6th 2010 5:35PM
Yes and No ...there will have a remove magic (debuff) off ourself's/group (new) and a remove magic (buff's) off a target (purge) but it will only be for resto shaman's, elemental and enhance shamans will only have Cleanse Spirit
Qot Apr 6th 2010 5:46PM
Shaman are losing cure disease and cure poison so they can keep Remove Curse and Purge (the latter will be almost useless for resto due to lack of hit and the numerous DPS classes that can do it) and gain Remove Magic.
Honestly, out of the four, they kept the two I like least and removed the two I use the most.
Todd Apr 6th 2010 5:16PM
I think Shamans are being affected the most by all of this.
I'd be happy if Mages are finally able to dispel magic, but I don't see this happening.
Bobmcbob Apr 6th 2010 5:20PM
You do realize we have Spellsteal...right?
If you're talking about defensive dispels, that would be a little much.
Henrah Apr 6th 2010 5:36PM
Shamans seem to be getting the complete and utter shaft with all the changes they've announced so far.
It's a good thing the Shaman Changes FAQ is up first.
Shaman is already the least played class, I can't see this making things any better.
ScorchHellfire Apr 6th 2010 9:08PM
@Henrah
Shamans the least played class? Um... no... That would be rogues and warlocks thanks... nice try at trying to make info you made up on the spot believable though...
RothKeahi Apr 6th 2010 10:41PM
As a long time mage and a budding priest I have never understood why mages could dispell curses and priests could dispell magic effects. It really seems like it should be the other way around.
Greg Apr 6th 2010 11:07PM
I play a shaman, a mage, a paladin, and a druid at level 80.
Shaman are the least played of all those classes. At level 80.
However, warlocks and rogues are even more rare than shaman. But again, this is only true for level 80. And level 80 (or whatever the cap is at a given moment) tends to be the most focused upon group by Blizzard.
It's also not 100% correct to say that warlocks and rogues are the least played class. And in all senses, shaman, warlocks, and rogues are the least played WoW classes.
But yeah, I agree that shaman are really losing out here on the dispel mechanics changes. Suck.
Oh, and you can check the facts for yourself at warcraft census.
SamLowry Apr 7th 2010 2:30AM
...but then you don't see too many rogues because their dps sucks, horribly, unless they're raiders. Raiding rogues are putting out obscene amounts of dps (18k?!?), yet your garden-variety casual rogue is bloody awful.
Gear (and a few dozen buffs) do make a difference.
Kamal Apr 6th 2010 5:19PM
I hope they do it right because I can see a potential gutting of certain specs and gameplay.
For 5-10 mans at that. Oh well.
Waxahachie Apr 6th 2010 5:30PM
In the balance, it looks like a net loss for Shamans. They gain the (talented) ability to remove magic, lose the inherent class skills of removing poisons and disease, and probably also lose the Cleansing totem (which removes poisons and diseases). They maintain the ability to remove curses, shifting it from talented to a class skill.
I'd like my Shaman to be able to dispel magic, but I'd rather have to trade off one other debuff removing ability to gain a new one. Personally, I'd trade disease removal for magic removal. Oh well. Another reason to level my Hunter!
bloodfyr Apr 6th 2010 5:46PM
From the way it sounds, they're going to be designing gamebreaking debuffs in raids magic (the ones that if you don't cleanse, you will wipe. I'm thinking of Fusion Punch, Rotface's goo, etc), otherwise what would be the point of giving everyone magic dispels?
Granted, I really don't like losing the disease/poisons dispels, and it does seem really weird given the class' lore, but I swallowed my nerd rage for a while, and I'm willing to give Blizz the benefit of the doubt. The shaman changes are due in tomorrow.
Bobmcbob Apr 6th 2010 5:19PM
BWAHAHA! Munch on your grass in fear, druids, as you are turned into SHEEP! No longer shall we cower in fear of your ability to roll immense amounts of hots and shapeshift out of our roots. Now you tall ones shall feel the pain in 4.0. Previously named Cataclysm, this expansion is now known as...
Carbon Emissions: A CO2 Problem.
From a fair bit of the population of the world now becoming sheepable, carbon emissions have been raised substantially. You heroes of the Alliance and Horde must find an eco-friendly way to handle the CO2 gas that will DESTROY THE WORLD.
*note: instaFFB is OP in PvP. This coming from a pvp frost mage.
That is all.
Eternauta Apr 7th 2010 12:09AM
This is a job for... CAPTAIN PLANET!
Michael Apr 6th 2010 5:19PM
What of old encounters that require a lot of dispels? For example, how will Chromaggus be possible when "dispels count" (which I assume means cost a lot more mana)?
Ilmyrn Apr 6th 2010 5:56PM
Given that at 80 you can already ignore most level 60 raid debuffs (Though not all: Cough, Baron Geddon, cough), I doubt that will be much of an issue at 85.
Of course maybe Blizz will have an intern take an afternoon and redo a few old bosses to make sure they're still killable.
Edge Apr 6th 2010 6:54PM
That doesn't answer the question when you are not 80. Some people seem to like to do raids at the appropriate level, and this will most certainly effect that. I'm assuming all old raids will have debuffs that need to be removed changed to magic, and those debuffs will most likely be nerfed to compensate for the high cost of dispelling
Celess Apr 7th 2010 10:53AM
@Edge
Whilst I am one of those players, we're such a niche group that I don't think it's honestly worth time and effort on Blizzard's behalf to balance outdated content to our tiny minority group.
It's like the US Government redoing an entire Constitutional Bill to give "Female Czechoslovakian brain surgeons between the ages of 89 and 92" certain rights and ensure everything's a-ok for them.