Thoughts on the death knight tanking change

Why one tank tree?
Balancing death knights has pretty obviously been a constant battle. There's essentially been six different trees to balance for both PvE and PvP, a tall enough order that almost every major patch has included a large handful of death knight tweaks. Not only did the devs have find a niche for dual wielding, but they had to balance tank talents against PvE talents on the off chance that the interaction would overbalance or underbalance a certain spec in the right combination. They had to squelch diseaseless specs and one-button DPS specs, and Unholy alone took them until Patch 3.3 to get to some semblance of balance.
They already solved the dual wield issue by pushing it squarely into one tree, so it may not be completely unexpected that they're doing the same for the tanking issue. This will, in theory, allow them to focus more on equalizing the tanking classes without having to worry about three separate basic tanking talent setups for death knights. In addition, we should hopefully see a lot more unique tanking toys for death knights instead of two or three per a tree mostly backed up by DPS talents used in creative ways.
Why blood?
Some people have expressed surprise that blood was chosen as the tank tree instead of frost, which is still (inaccurately) seen as the tank tree by many players, but there's a pretty strong set of reasons to go that way. To start with, the developers have spent the last few patches focused heavily on frost buffs and tweaks, but not mainly for tanking. Rather, they've been molding it into the dual-wielding and magic-focused DPS tree. To completely throw all that work out the window would not only negate that work but then necessitate trying to rebalance one of the other two trees to be the dual-wield DPS tree.
That leaves the unholy and blood trees. In this case, they actually come across as very similar later. They both use Death Coil as their rune dump. Gargoyle and Dancing Rune Weapon are almost identical in basic mechanics. They both focus on churning out death runes to use their powerful physical damage based weapon strike. (Yes, Scourge Strike does some shadow damage, but that physical damage component is still huge.) There are smaller differences, of course, such as unholy's extra disease and pet versus blood's superior health stealing and multiple strength boosting talents, but the basic style of the trees has become more and more similar as Wrath progresses. Therefore, turning one into a sole tank tree isn't as much of a loss of a playstyle as it might be, since underneath the hood, unholy and blood are remarkably similar in how they play out for DPS.
The factor that pushes blood over the top is that it has actually been a consistently amazing tank tree for most of the duration of Wrath. While it does fall behind on AoE threat, there's rarely been better for single-target threat (Icy Touch has equalized the threat differential a bit as of late), and blood's superior stamina and healability has also afforded it a top tanking slot in many raids. With all the stamina buffs and self-healing already in the tree, you'll have to move out a lot less DPS stuff. Move Abomination's Strength to frost and you're most of the way there already.
The bottom line
The bottom line is that it is sort of a bummer that we're losing some of our flexibility -- but if handled right, this could lead to more power and more fun for a death knight. Since the developers won't have to juggle six different modes of play crammed into three trees, they may feel more able to flex their legs and their creativity and give us more toys and options without fear of imbalancing the whole thing. Essentially, our breakdown is going to look something like this:
- Two-handed blood tanking, likely continuing blood's focus on high stamina, health drain and healability, but hopefully with more proactive damage prevention ability than it currently has
- Dual wield, magic focus frost, with haste and scads of runic power for its signature style
- Two-handed physical damage unholy, with diseases and pets giving it flavor
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Ruhig Apr 7th 2010 5:19PM
They explained in the announcement that allowing tanks to dual-wield creates problems (parry-gib, for one example), so by making them 2Hand only, it allows them to focus on making dual-wield great DPS, rather than having to fudge the numbers so it can also tank effectively. Making dual-wield available to all specs would just multiply the problems.
Steerpike Apr 7th 2010 1:14PM
its a bit saddening for me as well. I'm my raids main tank, and I'm a dual wield frost tank. I will miss the fun of dual wield frost tanking.
Killing bosses in ICC as a DW frost tank will be even more bittersweet as it is the end of a great play style.
Hopefully they will make Blood tanking a bit more interactive and fun rather than the semi boring thing it is now.
Malcalypse Apr 7th 2010 1:17PM
While I understand their descion from a work load perspective, I don't from a flavor perspective. It feels really awkward to me for the presences and talent trees to not line up. I suppose there could be some change to presences as well in Cataclysm but it seems awkard to be spec'd blood but rely on Frost Prescence to tank.
Luci Apr 7th 2010 3:57PM
Agreed.
Frost "feels" like the tanking tree. Blood "feels" like DPS. And I enjoy Unholy dps, but I liked it more when it was an Unholy/Frost build that focused on magic...scourge strike, black ice, etc. Unholy "feels" like it should be the magic dps tree. /Sigh
I agree with the direction they are taking, but IMO:
Unholy - focus on magic dmg, 2h weps.
Blood - dual wield, physical dmg
Frost - 2h, tanking
That is just how it feels to me.
Jeff Apr 7th 2010 1:18PM
I always thought of Frost as the tanking spec because Frost Presence is the one you are in when tanking. It gives you + (Stam, Armor, and Damage reduction) all in one. It doesn't make sense to me that you would be speced into Blood then have to use Frost Presence when tanking. That is like a warrior specing Arms then tanking in Defensive stance. Add to that all the Tank abilities that are part of the frost spell list, Unbreakable Armor, Icebound Fortitude, Lichborne. Blood has stuff that they can use but it is mostly self heal not damage mitigation, which is what says tank to me.
Mecer Apr 7th 2010 1:29PM
You dont tank or play a DK do you?
Im trying to find something correct in your post.......I cant.
Kira Apr 7th 2010 1:39PM
Erm... everything he said was right...
Jeff Apr 7th 2010 1:50PM
I actually have 2 DK 80s. One Blood DPS and one dual speced Frost tank/ Unholy DPS. What part of what I said was wrong?
someone Apr 7th 2010 2:34PM
There's actually tanking talents in each tree. They just aren't the same for talents in each tree, that would be pointless. Each tree has its tanking "niche" so to speak. Icebound Fortitude is a baseline ability, so you shouldn't include that in your argument. Also, I've never seen a tanking build that uses Lichborne, that's more of a PvP talent. So you really shouldn't use that argument either. In all reality, Blood has its own share of cooldowns (Vampiric Blood and Possibly Rune tap if you spec for that), and tanking really shouldn't be a cooldown game. Yes, they're useful (and near necessary in many situations), but if you can keep the threat and the healers do their job, most fights you won't even touch them. That's where Blood starts to come out ahead. It has +stam and +strength talents, which are probably some of the most useful stats for DK tanks (Stamina increasing your health pool and Strength increasing your parry rating and threat for pretty much free). Blood fails a bit when it comes to AoE threat, and I love my DK's frost spec for that, but it really excels at single target threat, which (for raids) is more important. Just pair up with a Pally tank in your raid and don't worry about AoE threat.
Luci Apr 7th 2010 3:59PM
@ Mecer
You MUST have meant to reply that to a different post...cuz...you don't make sense.
micgillam Apr 8th 2010 10:19AM
@someone
I don't disagree with your general sentiment, but I think you misunderstood the OP a little bit.
He wasn't listing abilities tied to Frost Talents specifically, he was listing abilities that come up in the Frost section of the spell book. So saying that he shouldn't include Icebound Fortitude because it's a baseline ability is kind of like...for lack of a better parallel.. saying that Revenge isn't a tank-oriented skill for warriors, because they don't have to be prot to get it.
The other thing is Lichborn... I wouldn't go out of my way (er.. tree) to take it, but it's not entirely bad for a tank to have an extra cooldown for countering crowd control either. Yes, a healer should probably be dispelling the CC, but sh** happens sometimes.
DeathPaladin Apr 7th 2010 1:22PM
The playstyle of Blood and Unholy are not nearly as close as you make it out to be. Blood has always been about strikes augmented by diseases, while Unholy plays more as diseases augmented by strikes. A lot of that is due to Blood's primary strike being single rune while Unholy's is two-rune.
In fact, from the specs I've played, I'd say Frost and Unholy share more in common than Blood and Unholy, due to Frost and Unholy being more about magic damage and AoE while Blood is physical damage and focused killing.
Thundrcrackr Apr 8th 2010 11:39AM
I almost wish they would make 2 trees for tanking and only 1 for DPS to encourage more tanks, which we badly need. We don't need more melee DPS. One tree could use 2 handers and one could use a shield.
Jake Apr 7th 2010 1:37PM
Real World:
Frost symbolizes unyielding form and slowing effects
Blood symbolizes violence and frenzy
Cataclysm:
Frost symbolizes violence and frenzied attacks
Blood symbolizes tanking and slower attacks
WTH?
Artificial Apr 7th 2010 4:00PM
OMG! They're actually *changing* things in Cataclysm! That was totally unexpected! WTH?!
/sarcasm
Chrissie Apr 7th 2010 1:38PM
I'm going to be selfish here and say that this totally sucks - simply because I enjoy playing my DK as a frost tank and it makes me a sad panda that I will no longer be able to. I don't find any of the trees other than Frost appealing to spec into (Frost is very iconic for death knights, just look at Arthas' Howling Blast-shaped buff in HoR and listen to him yap on about the "cold of the grave", and apart from that, bloodworms ick, exploding corpses blergh), and I find tanking much more interesting than just playing as DPS.
That, and I very much enjoyed the Howling Fever variant where I'd go and blast the crap out of everything in reach with icy awesomeness.
Sucks that that won't be possible anymore, and there's a high chance I will abandon my DK come Cataclysm in favor of other alts.
On an unselfish note for one moment, I do get it. The Cata concept of passive talent bonuses WOULD make it near impossible to keep the current setup, the push towards Frost as the dual wield DPS spec was hard to miss and Blood does have stuff going for it as the tank spec.
It makes sense. It just takes away what I enjoyed about playing a DK. Oh well!
Chrissie Apr 7th 2010 1:44PM
Sorry, just remembered that it was "justice of the grave", not cold. Oh wellz, the point stands!
omedon666 Apr 7th 2010 1:47PM
Remove blood worms (or make it a cooldown I can just skip out on buying in favour of something, anything else) and I am 100% sold on these changes. I've been eyeing DW frost DPS for awhile, but am not sold yet, based on the fact that the AGI/AP weapons it currently uses will likely become just AGI items with cataclysm. Throw in slow STR one handers (which they said they will do with the expansion) and I will have my two specs (Blood DPS, Frost tank) switch places in a heartbeat!
Chad Apr 7th 2010 4:28PM
There is a probability that avoidance will not be on STR 1 handers. If that is the case, and the philosophy is to make avoidance on shields and relic slots (tank guns wtf), then 1HSTR weapons will have plenty of threat. With the removal of on-next-swing attacks, 1HSTR weapons can slow down to 2.6 weapon speed.
Perhaps.
bvas89 Apr 7th 2010 1:52PM
I guess this means no Arms tanking for Warriors then? :(