More Cataclysm details for Rogues

To clarify on Combat Readiness: when activated being hit will build up the Combat Insight buff. If not struck within 6 seconds of the last hit it will fall off and the Combat Readiness state will end. If the rogue continues to be hit however Combat Insight will continue to reapply, and it can be applied up to a maximum of 30 seconds total..
Recuperate is long overdue, and will be interesting to see how much it actually heals for.
Numbers aren't quite hammered out yet but it restores based on max health and the more combo points used the longer it lasts. While it's introduced as a low level ability it obviously scales with gear and base health upgrades (being based on max health and all) and be useful for more than just leveling.
Numbers aren't quite hammered out yet but it restores based on max health and the more combo points used the longer it lasts. While it's introduced as a low level ability it obviously scales with gear and base health upgrades (being based on max health and all) and be useful for more than just leveling.
Combat readiness says it refreshes the timer each time you're attacked so does that mean it'll stay up as long as you're being attacked within the 6 seconds?
Yes, and can be up for a total of 30 seconds.
Yes, and can be up for a total of 30 seconds.
Some of you are focused too much on the word "cooldown." Consider for a moment what the abilities actually do. The current traditional PvP encounter with a rogue is to jump out at someone from stealth, then try to burn them down while applying a chain of stuns. One of two things happen (i.e. it's a pretty binary outcome): you kill the target in time, or you run out ouf stuns and the target kills you. Now I know that situation is kind of stereotypical perhaps to the point of contrivance, but you should get the basic idea.
We want to make that outcome less binary. With abilities like Combat Readiness you should be able to go toe to toe with a plate wearer for a short period of time. With Smoke Bomb, you should be able to escape spells for a short period of time, or at least get the caster to move closer to you. Does this mean you're now a plate-wearer instead of a rogue? Of course not. But it means you aren't so dependent on killing things while they're locked down. It means you get to think on your feet a little rather than apply a pre-determined sequence of attacks that either succeeds or fails.
In addition, with the boosts to leather armor and Stamina though, you will be a little tougher to kill even without any cooldowns.
We want to make that outcome less binary. With abilities like Combat Readiness you should be able to go toe to toe with a plate wearer for a short period of time. With Smoke Bomb, you should be able to escape spells for a short period of time, or at least get the caster to move closer to you. Does this mean you're now a plate-wearer instead of a rogue? Of course not. But it means you aren't so dependent on killing things while they're locked down. It means you get to think on your feet a little rather than apply a pre-determined sequence of attacks that either succeeds or fails.
In addition, with the boosts to leather armor and Stamina though, you will be a little tougher to kill even without any cooldowns.
We've said something similar in some of the other previews, but let me address real quick why we didn't add new damage-dealing openers, cp generators or finishers. It's because you have plenty of openers, cp generators and finishers.
We don't want to add new abilities for the sake of adding them, and in fact we've spent a lot of the last two expansions trying to make sure your full arsenal of attacks had a purpose. We don't want to consider the hypothetical level 120 rogue and imagine that you have four versions of Ambush and a whole action bar of Sinister Strike with various subtle shades of distinction.
We do like to add new abilities, because that's an exciting part of a new expansion. But we like to find roles for them. Some are going to necessarily be more situational, but that's why we offer them as core abilities rather than talents that have a heftier cost.
We don't want to add new abilities for the sake of adding them, and in fact we've spent a lot of the last two expansions trying to make sure your full arsenal of attacks had a purpose. We don't want to consider the hypothetical level 120 rogue and imagine that you have four versions of Ambush and a whole action bar of Sinister Strike with various subtle shades of distinction.
We do like to add new abilities, because that's an exciting part of a new expansion. But we like to find roles for them. Some are going to necessarily be more situational, but that's why we offer them as core abilities rather than talents that have a heftier cost.
One more point: Fan of Knives was not nerfed. I'm not sure where that concept is coming from unless you are interpreting that from changing the weapon it's based on to the ranged weapon. We didn't talk much about numbers, so unless you see "We want this abilitiy to do less damage," then you're just jumping to conclusions. It's safer to assume that every number in the game is changing, but the relative roles of abilities and talents are staying the same unless we specify otherwise (not that we're listing every single talent tree change in these previews - far from it.)
We just want the ranged weapon to be more than a stat stick for rogues. Adding poisons to FoK is actually a pretty hefty buff. Yes, this means that bows and guns aren't of much interest to rogues (after leveling). But in this case we want Fan of KNIVES to be taken literally. :)
Now, having said all that, we suspect you will AE less often in Cataclysm. You'll CC more and you'll burn targets down one at a time more often. But that just means all classes will do less damge with AEs. That's not a rogue nerf.
We just want the ranged weapon to be more than a stat stick for rogues. Adding poisons to FoK is actually a pretty hefty buff. Yes, this means that bows and guns aren't of much interest to rogues (after leveling). But in this case we want Fan of KNIVES to be taken literally. :)
Now, having said all that, we suspect you will AE less often in Cataclysm. You'll CC more and you'll burn targets down one at a time more often. But that just means all classes will do less damge with AEs. That's not a rogue nerf.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it. Nothing will be the same. In WoW.com's Guide to Cataclysm you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion. From Goblins and Worgens to Mastery and Guild changes, it's all there for your cataclysmic enjoyment.Filed under: Rogue, News items, Cataclysm






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Arthur Apr 9th 2010 11:57AM
No, but really ... rogues are already awsome, but with the smoke bomb and the (other) new survivability skills they're just IMBA, hope they don't get nerfed all the time like my priest :S
Edmon Apr 9th 2010 11:58AM
less AoE, and more CC !?!
What??? Really???
GrumblyStuff Apr 9th 2010 12:10PM
Yay!
Tomatketchup Apr 9th 2010 12:31PM
So Cataclysm dungeons will be more like Magister's Terrace now?
YEEEEEEEEES
GrumblyStuff Apr 9th 2010 12:56PM
@Tomatketchup
Whoa, there. I remember HMgT. I don't think going from lolaoe to having to EVERY mob in a 4-6 mob packs is the way to go. Definitely don't want them to go all H Shattered Halls. ...but maybe.
Hmm.
Warrior's would be kinda boned for CCing or kiting though an arms warrior with disarming nature could keep one from doing anything for 10 seconds.
Ret pallies have repent.
Shamans have hex now.
Priests still have mind control (wtb smidge more range and less heartbreak resists) and Inner Will to assist kiting (if MC doesn't work).
DKs could lock down casters pretty well and Chains of Ice kite easily.
DPS druids of either flavor could kite easily.
Warlocks might have some trouble but they have plenty of tools and could chain fear after Fel Fire kiting or whatever.
Ok, bring on H MgT. :D
Nijel Apr 9th 2010 4:48PM
Just think of the new learning curve. All those new players that came with wrath that have no memory of ever having to CC something. AoE tanking has made them soft. Its about time we started thinking about what we pulled again.
Deathgodryuk Apr 9th 2010 6:01PM
Take off your rose-colored glasses. CC was obnoxious, time consuming, and made it extremely painful for some classes to get into certain dungeons. Or did we forget the limited types of enemies that Sap works on and how we can only use it while out of combat and stealthed.
There was a reason Shard of Contempt was so difficult for Rogues to get.
mark Apr 9th 2010 6:19PM
you mean like in old kindom?
watching my 60k tank take a "75% of maximum health" shot cause noone bothers doesnt make me optimstic about the learning curve
GrumblyStuff Apr 9th 2010 7:27PM
@Deathgodryuk
What rose-colored glasses? H Shattered Halls was HARD for me (warrior tank). I tanked it, maybe 3-4 times before the 3.0 changes. H MgT was @#$%IN' HARD and priestess fight was often the roadblock that made me call it a night. The joke of the instance was calling in another healer or mage to replace me and having everyone put on their pvp gear.
However, there's been many changes and there's still changes to come. The increase in armor and stam for non-plate wearers means fudging up CC here or there won't mean instantly losing heals or dps. A lot of classes have picked up some form of CC.
I don't know what classes you play or when you started playing but, personally, I enjoyed CCing. I cannot emphasize how fun H Bot was mind controlling the chemists and gene-splicers. Best runs I've had in WotLK have been H HoR when my pug group used CC on their own initiative and was damn good at it.
That's what I want. I know it won't always happen but I'd rather people learn what to do before I raid with them.
(P.S., I never got the shard either. I even had to roll against a frost mage for dot trinket.)
(P.P.S., WTB kiting as well. Kiting Gluth's adds as a DK for the first time was a fun challenge.)
Deathgodryuk Apr 9th 2010 10:03PM
In BC my 70s were a rogue and a holy paladin, both of which were pretty much excluded from getting into any decent MgT group because that entire instance was built to be group healed by priests, shamans & druids and CC'ed by locks, priests, and mages.
They fixed the problem of Paladin healing but rogues still have one of the most limited forms of CC out of all the dpsers who have CC. Hard instances are great, but you have to give people the tools necessary to do it or they're just going to get kicked for another class with better utility.
GrumblyStuff Apr 10th 2010 12:26AM
That's just shameful. I loved having rogues there.
Thing is, though, you have to remember that MgT was it for 5mans. It was designed to be hard and I got chewed up and spat out many times. I would expect similar difficulty from 5mans only after a couple tiers in Cataclysm. I'll have to profess my love for the Netherstorm instances again because I enjoyed them the most. H Bot was a guild favorite that could be done quickly but only if you paid attention.
I'm trying to remember all the others. Earliest memory of Shadowlabs was an absolutely brutal fight with Vorpil for my first time through for the Kara key chain. I think more than a few of us ended up with revered rep slugging it out in Black Morass. We skipped the second boss of Mechanar for a while, only trying her after taking out Pathaleon. Never did H Shattered Halls much and even had similar trouble with that many mobs in MgT, Slave Pens, Ramps, Sethekk Halls. Mana Tombs was totally shunned by just about everyone mostly due to the manaburning worms.
My perspective is from a casual guild who, as a guild, had Kara down and occassionally had enough on to take on Gruul. If it sounds like I skipped a lot of instances, well, sort of. Instances weren't equal and so I gravitated to the ones that hurt the least. A lot has changed though so, given the chance to try them at level again, I would totally go for it. Overall, players have many more tools at their disposal and I think disparities between classes have been dimished enough to handle instances with CC requirements.
Amber Apr 9th 2010 12:00PM
I'll be glad when they take out a lot of the "AoE down the entire instance plus some" of the game. I honestly miss the concept of having to CC or LoS. I can only think of two spots in heroic instances that I've seen LoS in the last couple of months...
Dameblanche Apr 9th 2010 12:00PM
Am i reading this? Am i reading this?
"Now, having said all that, we suspect you will AE less often in Cataclysm. You'll CC more and you'll burn targets down one at a time more often."
Omg! yay! finally we get rid of the total boredom of AoE-ing everything down in heroics! Oooh I am so gonna pop my turtle/pig/penguin polymorphs back on my mage castbar, just to already daydream about future funz.
ashchapman777 Apr 9th 2010 12:06PM
Yeah i could not agree anymore with you there, bring back the fun of having to CC and LOS :D and single targeting dps.
Fletcher Apr 9th 2010 7:38PM
"Now, having said all that, we suspect you will AE less often in Cataclysm. You'll CC more and you'll burn targets down one at a time more often. But that just means all classes will do less damge with AEs. That's not a rogue nerf."
Indeed it's not a rogue nerf. We excel at single-target DPS and CC. It's a rogue *buff*. :D
To all the people QQing about CC in BC heroics; I'm 99.99 recurring percent sure that Ghostcrawler has stated that the CC required in those was Too High, just as I'm sure that he's stated that the CC required in Wrath heroics is Too Low. They're obviously trying to balance things in between in Cataclysm. I'd say the current ICC heroics would be a good benchmark; there's some AOE in there, and most pulls can be AOEd down if you're lucky, but you'll have much better success if you CC the flamebringers/riflemen/adepts instead of sitting there like an idiot and getting whacked by them while you burn down other things.
caelwynn Apr 9th 2010 12:01PM
Glad to see they're trying to make all the abilities we learn on our way to 80 have some situational use in end game content. Nothing sucks more than leveling out of the usefulness of a cool ability.
BoB Apr 9th 2010 12:01PM
Well fan of knives is (basically) the same, so I happy with that. And Arthur, I am so happy that all you wrote was "FIRST" and not even any output on the post. Really quite mature.
LOL at the cooldown thing, that makes me laugh for some reason.
shawn Apr 9th 2010 12:03PM
i don't know, as a long time (i.e. vanilla) rogue player, the rogue preview still seems underwhelming and i'm having a hard time getting excited about it.
EaterOfBirds Apr 9th 2010 12:02PM
Combat readiness is way more effective than it looked at first then. the idea seems sound, rogue encounters for me are rarely more than chain fearing and burning them down at a distance if i have the initiative, or getting stunlocked and eaten for breakfast. middle ground would be nice. roll on cata.
Troglodyte Apr 9th 2010 12:06PM
You know.... nothing prevents you from CC'ing and single targeting rather than AOE'ing NOW.... you don't have to wait for Cataclysm to start CC'ing again if you don't want to.