Know Your Lore: Current Horde politics -- the Forsaken, page 2

Yes, all forms of life. This means not just the Scarlet Crusade, but also the rest of humanity, the Alliance, the Horde and every player in the game. Everyone.
There were some suspicions regarding the Society's motives and regarding the Forsaken themselves, but by and large, Sylvanas and her people were left to their own devices. The Horde, it seemed, were clueless. It made very little sense to me as well, but the Burning Crusade attempted to expand a little more upon the Forsaken's odd activities, as well as shed some light on Sylvanas herself.
Somewhere between the fall of the Sunwell and the beginning of Burning Crusade, Sylvanas traveled to Quel'Thalas for her own reasons and ended up running into a former high elf named Dar'Khan Drathir. Dar'Khan held the distinction of being the greatest traitor known to the high elves, now blood elves -- he pledged his loyalty to Arthas and helped him slip through the Quel'Thalassian defenses. Dar'Khan was after Anveena, the human embodiment of what remained of the Sunwell -- and Sylvanas intended to stop him from doing it. While she wasn't successful, she did manage to distract him long enough for Anveena to regain her power and get rid of him. Sylvanas agreed to keep Anveena's identity a secret, not wanting Arthas to catch wind that the Sunwell he'd destroyed wasn't quite gone after all.

While initially tentative and unsure of her motivations, the blood elves eventually agreed to an alliance largely due to their own dwindling numbers and need for aid (and perhaps the slow realization that they were just as alone and isolated in the world as the Forsaken were). In addition to the alliance, Sylvanas went to Thrall and convinced him to take the blood elves in as allies under the Horde banner. Other than the forces in Tranquillien, the Forsaken were largely quiet for the Burning Crusade expansion, though there were rumors that Sylvanas traveled to and from Northrend either to scout for a possible attack on the Lich King or to establish a base in the north.
It wasn't until the end of Burning Crusade that the Forsaken showed up in force in Shattrath to "help" with the ongoing zombie infestation that signaled the beginning of Wrath of the Lich King. After all, who better to combat a seeming plague of undeath than the undead? The leader of the forces in Shattrath was Grand Apothecary Putress, a chief apothecary of the Royal Apothecary Society who was working on a cure for the plague that triggered the zombie event. Putress, appearing from seemingly out of nowhere, had never been seen until that point in time, and it was assumed he was just another apothecary, a clever one who had managed to work his way to the top.

Putress was under the opinion that the Forsaken never truly received the respect they deserved, that his people were doomed to a destiny of being seen as nothing more than living corpses to be reviled and looked upon with disgust, even by their supposed allies. He eagerly took on the task of creating the new plague of undeath but soon fell in with Varimathras and began to plan a coup d'état to remove Sylvanas from her throne and forcefully take control of the Undercity. Vengeance, in Putress' mind, was not enough -- he wanted the world to bow at his feet.
The Royal Apothecary Society worked tirelessly on the new plague that was developed for use in Northrend, called the Forsaken Blight, to perfect it so that it would be effective against Arthas and his Scourge ... and any living that happened to get in the way. Once completed, the blight was unleashed at Angrathar the Wrathgate, not only against Arthas but also against the combined forces of the Alliance and the Horde. It was only the efforts of the red dragonflight, whose flames neutralized the blight, that prevented it from spreading further and annihilating the living for good.

The attack was over, and while Sylvanas was in control once more, her abomination guards, which were created by the Royal Apothecary Society, were quickly replaced with the orcs of the Kor'kron Guard in an effort to keep a closer eye on the Forsaken. The Kor'kron are incredibly rude to undead players that speak to them:
However, Sylvanas seemed largely unconcerned, her focus being turned to something much larger: the eradication of the Lich King. She moved from the Undercity to Northrend, to lead an assault on Icecrown Citadel and hopefully destroy Arthas himself. After facing off with Arthas in single combat, Sylvanas realized that the Lich King's powers had increased so much that defeating him alone was impossible.
- I bet you rotters thought you were pretty clever at the Wrath Gate, didn't you? Playtime's over. We're here to make sure you don't try anything.
- What's wrong, bonebag? Looking for someone else? I'm all you've got now, so if you want something, make it quick.
- I'll tell you what you need to know, but I don't have to like it. We're watching you and your kind.
- Doctor Herbert Halsey is who you want. Just don't try anything funny. Any more of that plague nonsense and you'll find an axe in uncomfortable places. (when asking where the alchemy trainer is located)

So, it is done. I had not dared to trust my senses. Too many times has the Lich King made me to be a fool. Finally, he has been made to pay for the atrocities he imposed upon my people. May Azeroth never fail to remember the horrible price we paid for our weakness, for our pride. But what now, Hero? What of those freed from his grasp but still shackled to their mortal coils? Leave me. I have much to ponder.
What now, indeed. There are still several questions that remain unanswered surrounding the Forsaken, and there are several theories that could arguably be in play:
Sylvanas' redemption Sylvanas, over time, has begun to grow a little more heart. The addition and acceptance of the Forsaken to the Horde has softened her perspective on the living. The help from the Horde during the Undercity's capture and more notably in achieving the vengeance against Arthas that drove her all these years may have also had a hand in convincing her that an alliance with the living is not only possible but preferable to simply killing them all. The death of Arthas quieted the vengeance that burned in her heart, and now it is possible for her to approach the days ahead with hope for her people's ultimate acceptance by society.
Sylvanas' vengeance Sylvanas, possessing an incredibly shrewd and tactical mind, allied with the blood elves in the hopes of increasing the Forsaken's numbers as the blood elves slowly died out from magic withdrawal. However, the Horde was still breathing down her neck, and in addition, Varimathras was proving a more irritating presence by the day. To this end, she turned a blind eye to his machinations, fully aware that he was staging a coup -- and when he "took over" the Undercity, she quietly allowed it to happen. After all, not only would she be getting rid of a thorn in her side, but she'd look very much the helpless victim to her Horde "allies,' and the "betrayal" would absolve her of any involvement with the Forsaken Blight at the same time. With the death of Arthas, she and her people can now turn their attentions on bolstering their numbers, one corpse at a time -- as soon as they get rid of the pesky Kor'kron littering their halls.

Sylvanas' plight Sylvanas has no idea what's going on. She had a very solid reason for leading the Forsaken -- revenge against the man that tortured both her and the others she leads, the creature that cursed them to an un-life of grief and regret. But her people, who were at first so loyal to her cause, have turned against her, and with the one reason for her people's survival now taken care of, Sylvanas is left to deal with the aftermath of that betrayal. Without vengeance, what does Sylvanas have to drive her? Without the support of her people, how will she lead them to anything greater? And were the Forsaken working against her completely destroyed, or are there others that seek to undermine her rule? What are Sylvanas and the Forsaken as a whole supposed to do now?
The Forsaken are at a shaky crossroads, politically speaking: the trust they earned by working with the Horde was all but obliterated by the events of the Wrathgate. The Dark Lady seemed to have an iron grasp over her people but evidently underestimated those in her midst and lost control, leading to her flight from the Undercity. It can be argued that her loss of control is a major playing factor in current tensions between the Horde and the Alliance, which is why the Kor'kron are now watching the Forsaken so closely. Thankfully, Warchief Thrall is a decent sort who can definitely identify with dissension in the ranks and the merits of beating a tactical retreat. He wouldn't hold something like a temporary loss of control against her, much less view it as an act of cowardice.

With imminent approach of Cataclysm, the Forsaken are the Horde faction that raise the most questions. With the quest for vengeance now over, will the Forsaken begin to work more closely with the Horde and try and atone for the mistakes made during the Wrathgate? Will we see the Forsaken splinter even further away from the core of the Horde and turn their efforts once more to eradicating the living? Will Sylvanas find a new cause for her people to rally under, or with the absence of Arthas, will she simply fall apart like Maiev, a huntress who is nothing without the hunt? Will the Forsaken find themselves accepted or even more ostracized than before -- and if the latter, how will they react? Will their tentative alliance with the Blood Elves strengthen, or will the restoration of the Sunwell remove any reason for association with the Forsaken? Most importantly -- what are they up to now?
Cataclysm should address at least some of these questions. Hopefully with the introduction of Gilneas and the worgen to the Alliance, the Forsaken will find themselves with new enemies to butt heads with instead of turning on their own -- but only time and the new expansion will tell.
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 6)
Tabasa Apr 10th 2010 9:09PM
I've never been entirely clear on this, mostly cause I don't think Blizzard really has been either, but is there anything definite on whether or not the plague kills and re-raises rather than just outright kills?
The Wrathgate thing, along with the quests dealing with making the plague leading up to it, seem to suggest that it's not intended to be a plague of undeath, just one of... uh, death death, but admittedly I don't think I've ever seen anything clearly stating one way or the other.
Tabasa Apr 10th 2010 9:10PM
Gah, that was supposed to be a question in response to Gendou. At least it showed up around the same spot anyways. Disregard. XD
Tabasa Apr 10th 2010 9:11PM
...what. Why am I failing at this?
Eldoron Apr 10th 2010 9:17PM
don't forget to push "Reply"
RetPallyJil Apr 10th 2010 9:25PM
The HELL she didn't know about what the Apothecaries were up to. She just lost control of her underlings.
jealouspirate Apr 10th 2010 9:29PM
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm firmly in the "Sylvanas is evil" camp, and I think there's very little evidence that she's softened up at all. Certainly no hard evidence, just theories which contradict her previous actions.
She allied with a Dreadlord... bad idea. She played with fire, then she got burned. Simple as that. Then she tricked Thrall, again, into thinking she's the innocent one who lost her city to the bad guys.
Dreyja Apr 10th 2010 10:39PM
I think you are bang-on there J.pirate. I've seen very little evidence of any emotional development from her - just cold calculation.
If anything the "Lament of the Highborn," is further proof of her "hardness". She laughs at the idea that she had any connection to her previous life and feels nothing for her, "lost," sister. Instead she flashes back to what she is all about now - what Arthas did to her.
I accept that Anne has done a heck of a lot more research in all this though so I'm willing to keep and open mind that there is this, "softening," happening. I've not seen it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ;-D In the meantime - don't accept a drink from the gal. ;-p
D Apr 11th 2010 12:57AM
I agree. "Death to the Scourge and to the living" pretty much sums it up for me. I've never seen the Horde faction as the "bad guys" but the Forsaken and Sylvanas are as close to evil as we get to play in the game.
I think a lot of players tend to brush over that b/c they think Sylvanas is hot. /rolls eyes
In my opinion, Sylvanas is almost a mirror of Arthas. She is so single-minded in her hatred and rage and lust for domination over her enemies that she casts aside the well-being of her people. She basically became the very thing she hated. She is a leader who put her own thirst for revenge first to the exclusion of everything else, which in my mind, makes her a terrible leader and a terrible representative for her people.
Until BLizz officially comes out and says "Putress acted alone in developing and releasing the plague at the Wrathgate" I'll continue to point to the evidence that says Sylvanas was the one in charge and simply got duped in regards to the timing. Putress jumped the gun and release it too early. But there's no doubt in my mind that Sylvanas knew what was going on and took an active hand in creating the plague to wipe out the Scourge and all living creatures -- as evidenced by quests as well as the novel "Arthas" which is considered canon.
The fact that as far as we know, Thrall did little else but replace some of her guards in Undercity made me lose a lot of respect for him as a character. But I do believe this is part of the way Blizz is setting up his fall as someone else will use that weakness to oust him as Warchief.
RetPallyJil Apr 11th 2010 4:31AM
Yep. Death to Sylvanas. I relish every chance I get to kill that death-breathed doxie.
Chall Apr 11th 2010 7:56AM
Quote: "Thrall did little else but replace some of her guards in Undercity made me lose a lot of respect for him as a character."
Some guards? Taking into account that WOW's locations are, due to game mechanics, not up to scale, I think it is more fitting to describe them as freaking elite occupation army, stationed in the capital and all the all government offices. (stationing US Marines in Downing Street - becouse some renegaed British Army office in Iraq, how about that?)
For me it reads like: "this is the last chance we are giving you, because we are nice and think there is a slight chance not all of you tried to mess with us. Screw this on up and we simply push the button!"
DeathPaladin Apr 11th 2010 2:39PM
In my personal opinion, the Ebon Blade, lore-wise, is pretty much everything the Forsaken should have been.
Imagine if the Forsaken had been written as dark, brutal, but ultimately regretful of what they had done. Their primary goal is vengeance, but in a way that their vengeance is the key to their salvation. They fight smart, use incredibly underhanded tactics, but at the same time do not hesitate to ride to the rescue of their allies.
Suppose that instead of mustache-twirling "let's wipe out all life" villainy from level 1, the Forsaken plague quests are written as failed attempts to find a cure for undeath. Then comes Putress's reveal, that the "cure" you were helping him test was actually a plague to wipe out all life. Then his actions would feel more like a true double-cross instead of making the Horde leadership either look like clueless patsies or complicit in his betrayal.
Instead we have a faction that is a wolf that isn't even bothering with the sheep's clothing. It walks up to the sheep and says "I'm a wolf", yet the sheep are somehow surprised when it starts trying to eat them.
Hangk Apr 11th 2010 4:46PM
@Jill: Up-voted for the phrase "death-breathed doxie", which I am going to cheerfully steal for future RP sessions :D
Hal Apr 10th 2010 11:19PM
I know we always have to separate "what makes the game work" with "what makes sense in the lore," but the inclusion of Death Knights in the game throws me for a loop.
The DKs are no different than the Forsaken (perhaps prettier to look at in some circumstances), but they have been welcomed back to the Alliance. If they can be accepted, why not the new residents of Lordaeron?
Let's say the events of the Wrathgate never happened . . . would Sylvanas have been able to convince Wrynn to let her and the Forsaken back into the Alliance?
It did happen though, which makes me wonder why Wrynn doesn't suddenly get a bug up his butt about the DKs in his presence. Yes, they're under Darion and not Sylvanas, but they're still undead, former thralls of Arthas.
It just seems like the ultimate destiny for the Forsaken would be to return to the Alliance (or be destroyed in conflict with them). I doubt we'll see that as long as the MMO is driving the lore, but it feels like the direction things must go.
icepyro Apr 11th 2010 12:06AM
Admit it, Wrynn is too shortsighted to connect that many dots.
In all seriousness, even if the Wrathgate didn't happen, I don't see Sylvanas wanting to join the Alliance even if it was possible. She's a former Blood Elf. I think the Blood Elves and Forsaken are intertwined enough at this point that both would jump ship together if it wasn't for the fact that both play off each others' prejudice and prevent the other from seriously considering it.
As for DKs, while I see the connection you are trying to make, it's not quite the same. DKs are loyal to their former race first and the brotherhood of the Ebon Blade second. As soon as they were free they ran and asked for forgiveness and admittance. DKs of opposite factions do fight each other. Now if the DKs had chose to make a nation and unified the way the Forsaken did as a race and nation and not just a class, then I could see your point more. They may both be undead, but their identity is completely different.
Hal Apr 11th 2010 12:19AM
Well, the Forsaken are all former elves and humans. The lack of loyalty to that race is because they think they're seen as monsters. Yet the DKs were accepted.
If I'm to understand the article, Sylvanas brought the Forsaken into the Horde because she felt there'd be no way the Alliance would ever accept them. The Blood Elves joined because Sylvanas brought them in. From a lore perspective, it would make some sense for these groups to rejoin their former allegiances. (The only road bump there would be the Draenei; they probably wouldn't take kindly to the presence of the Blood Elves).
The major point to all this was the acceptance of the DKs. If the Alliance can accept them, why not the Forsaken? I mean, I know why not since the Wrathgate, but . . . still.
Coik Apr 11th 2010 1:57AM
It was glossed over in the article, but the "remnant human forces" that the article mentions were actually members of the Alliance under Grand Marshal Garithos. Putting aside that Garithos was a racist douche, Sylvanas entered into an agreement with him that she would help him retake Capital City and then turn it over to him...though she admitted to Varimathras that she had no intention of keeping that promise. After the city was retaken, she had Garithos and his men killed and fed them to ghouls.
So, ya'know, betrayal and murder...Sylvanas kinda picked a fight with the Alliance as one of her first official acts as despot of the Forsaken.
Al Apr 11th 2010 2:40AM
The Death Knights came in peace, with the endorsement of Tirion and the Argent Dawn.
The Forsaken came in deceit, with a goddamn Dreadlord supporting them.
A fair bit of difference there.
icepyro Apr 10th 2010 11:27PM
This is long due to addressing my thoughts on other comments. tl;dr I have no solid opinion but hope Blizzard does the right thing.
I think Sylvanas (and as such, the Forsaken she leads) is at a serious moral crossroads. Her entire being has been on revenge and to that end she won. Now what?
It is evident to me that at the beginning, she wanted revenge by making a plague that made Forsaken so everyone could feel how she does. Yet, during this you have a quest to remind her of her days as living and her feelings of guilt surface and she laughs them off to hide the truth. I think she approached the Blood Elves trying to find out if her feelings are right or wrong.
She's a hard killer bent on making everyone and everything pay. Yet, that is not really her, it's her hate and being despised speaking and leading. So she keeps a solid front of all this hate, but her allies (who are truly evil) can see her 'weakness'. Likely, they convince her it is weakness and she toughens up that front even more to maintain some kind of hold.
By Northrend, I think her desire not to make others suffer the Forsaken life combines with her desire to kill scourge and the living and she accepts the New Plague. The living will bow at her feet the way her allies convince her they should (after all, Forsaken are awesome) while not making people suffer unneedlessly (they just turn to goo). I wouldn't even be surprised if in the back of her mind she wanted to be at the Wrathgate and help ensure that her and Arthas both got a healthy dose. Ever the tactician and knowing that the best place is pretending not to know, she stays back to be sure Arthas dies or she can damage control and regroup if not. It's win win win for her.
So now she knows the truth. She will never be as powerful as Arthas and as such never rule the Forsken the way Arthas ruled the scourge. Dark Lady watch over who? She's just a ranger whose revenge is complete. I think that leaves her and Thrall to play chess in some place in Tirisfal Glades, cut off from the rest of the world like Xavier and Magneto while Magneto was in prison.
All that said, I have no clue what will or should happen to the Forsaken. They've been betrayed so many times I lose count. As someone else says, hopefully Gilneas will give them enough to keep them occupied as they once again try to find their place in the world. The RAS should definitely be dissolved and/or re-purposed. The rest of the race is either largely innocent or largely sheep, and most Forsaken players are merely independents also looking for their place in a world of fear and loathing of their race.
It's like the Iraqi war in Azeroth. Who really gets to decide how the leadership of an obviously independent nation works now that the terrorist leadership is dealt with? I guess Blizzard does and I can't wait to see what they do. I just hope it also doesn't follow the Iraqi war with a distrusting occupation and a government the people don't want as it is currently. Although Garrosh is likely to do something stupid. Maybe the RAS can put him in check or preferably checkmate.
Terrant Apr 11th 2010 12:05AM
I like this article a lot, although let's give the rest of the Horde some credit with that plague-under-their-noses comment. Sure, in the game, non-Forsaken players can help gather all sorts of reagents for plagues, but for the average member of the Horde, Forsaken activity is an entire continent away. Getting there is a challenge - zeppelins are not reliable and they certainly do not come every three minutes. And unlike the in-game representation of the Undercity, I'm sure the Forsaken have things such as doors and locks to keep the curious out. In essence, information about the internal operations of any of the factions isn't as obvious to discover as it is in game.
NewGuy Apr 11th 2010 12:22AM
Haha I would like to think that the undead start a fullout war with the wolves, team up with the goblins and become even better engineers, and tighten our relationship with the belfs. Lol and if theres time totally alienate the tauren for ever believing that the forsaken want to become human again. But hey if the tauren figure out how to bring the forsaken reproductive system back to life then maybe they will talk. ;)