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4-10-2010 @ 9:03PM
From a Forsaken point of view, a plague that kills their enemies and raises them up as free-minded undead could be considered 'Forced Conversion' rather than 'Outright Genocide.' Given the bitterness that the average Forsaken (including Sylvanas) holds against the living, it probably seems like a good idea - at least at the time. It seems like they'll probably be revisiting the whole 'Forsaken Plague' concept in the near future.
4-10-2010 @ 9:12PM
I've never been entirely clear on this, mostly cause I don't think Blizzard really has been either, but is there anything definite on whether or not the plague kills and re-raises rather than just outright kills?The Wrathgate thing, along with the quests dealing with making the plague leading up to it, seem to suggest that it's not intended to be a plague of undeath, just one of... uh, death death, but admittedly I don't think I've ever seen anything clearly stating one way or the other.
Um, which game do you play? The goal of the New Plague was to kill the Scourge-type undeads. The hidden goal was to kill the living aswell. Have you seen any "un"deads at wrathgate? I only saw dying people. So, no, it wouldn't have been a "forced conversion" with the New Plague, or whatever it is called now.Putress said "Death to the Scourge! And death to the Living!". He didn't mention undeath.
4-10-2010 @ 9:31PM
Tabasa: No, the New Plague has been shown to have a variety of effects throughout the testing process. Given that the undead had no problems creating a plague that simply kills (quests as early as Brill have you testing plague on victims that simply die, and that could be seen as failure) it seems they're trying for a different effect.The Forsaken Plague is based on the original Plague that created the Scourge in the first place. So it's a fair bet that it has the potential to raise the victims up from the dead. The New Plague that Putress unleashed may or may not have been 'to specification' for Sylvanas's intentions. He certainly wasn't under her orders when he attacked the combined Alliance/Horde forces at the Wrathgate. So the plague that Sylvanas ordered and the plague that was actually created may very well be two different things.Eldoron: What game do YOU play? Because I seem to remember a whole bunch of red dragons swooping in and laying waste to the Wrathgate area with cleansing fire. So even if the New Plague that was unleased there had the potential for raising new Forsaken (and I'm not saying it did), there was certainly no chance to see that in action.(heck, as long as we're speculating, maybe the reason Bolvar Fordragon survived was that he was raised up as a Forsaken by the New Plague. I mean, as long as we're tossing out stuff with no proof one way or another...)
4-10-2010 @ 9:41PM
again.... "The goal of the New Plague was to kill the Scourge-type undeads. The hidden goal was to kill the living aswell."otherwise, you failedPS: Bolvar lives because of red dragons, not because he was to turn into an undead. Red dragons do "flame of life". As Bolvar says in the Lich King video: "The dragons' flame sealed my fate". NVM, really
Bolvar states that the reason he's not quite dead is due to the Dragon's Flame, though admittedly it's pretty vague and there's the possibility that he just doesn't know what he's talking about.In any case, either way seems to make sense to me. The face-melty attributes of the Wrathgate plague still have me somewhat skeptical there, but its entirely possible that they came up with multiple "versions" along the way, and I can definitely see where the implication is in it being intended to re-raise. And it's not like the Forsaken haven't made any other efforts to add to their ranks, as implied by Thrall "stopping" the creation of any more Abominations and sending the Kokron, so I'd buy it.Guess we'll see eventually, since I doubt the storyline regarding it is finished.
4-10-2010 @ 9:48PM
Eldoron: Like I said, it's all baseless speculation at this point.Tabasa: Personally, I like the idea of the 'Forced Conversion' Plague, especially in the face of the Scarlet Crusade presence in Tirisfal. It appeals to my sense of ironic vengeance. But as you pointed out, evidence could swing in either direction, and Blizzard hasn't really said one way or another. I really do hope the Loremasters at Blizzard have a good idea of where they want to take this whole storyline, without either handwaving away the darker aspects of the Forsaken or having the rest of the Horde continue on in blissful ignorance (something that verges on the patently ridiculous after the Wrathgate).
4-10-2010 @ 10:05PM
Baseless speculation? Hmm of course... Lore! Huh! What is it good for? I'd just like to mention the Horde quests in Northrend. http://www.wowwiki.com/New_Plague"The Forsaken Blight, combined with a reactive agent, is powerful enough to turn its victims (or at least the undead ones) into shapeless piles of goo."". . . give an 'antidote' to a vrykul prisoner, which causes him to dissolve into a pile of goo."It is clear that the final outcome of the New Plague Sylvanas once ordered to be created was only capable of destroying undead or living. There is no word about victims raising as Forsaken. Goo =/= Forsaken:-/Dude, seriously (and sincerely), you are so out of the picture you're almost in Taiwan.
4-10-2010 @ 10:11PM
You see, what "idea you like", or what "appeals to your sense" doesn't quite matter when it is time to face against FACTS.
4-11-2010 @ 2:35AM
@ EldoronOkay, let's say all the Forsaken want the plague to do is kill stuff.They've been working on it for pretty much all of WoW. As you discover around level 6 or so as a Forsaken, it can kill living things.So. They have their own version of the Plague capable of killing living things from the get-go. Once you hobble out of the Forsaken starting area and into Brill, you know the Forsaken have a version of the Plague. Why don't they use it and just wipe out anyone who annoys them? Eventually they make it strong enough to kill Scourge... so why isn't ICC getting carpet-bombed with the stuff? Instead of risking all our lives, why don't we turn the place into a Plague swimming pool and call it a day? A whiff gave Lichy a touch of the vapors... I'm going to guess that he wouldn't do well with a Plague shower. Just because it is 'capable' of turning Vrykul into goo, doesn't mean that's its intended effect (i.e. chocolate is a toxin, it is capable of killing you, but that isn't the intended effect - same thing with alcohol).I think there is more to it that hasn't been explicitly stated.
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