Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsMore Cataclysm change details for druids
by Allison Robert 
Apr 10th 2010 at 7:00PM
Druid HoTs and DoTsNo DoTs benefiting from haste and crit?
Most hots and dots, including druid ones, will benefit from haste and crit. The exceptions are things like Deep Wounds and Ignite, which are already tied to crit.
Most hots and dots, including druid ones, will benefit from haste and crit. The exceptions are things like Deep Wounds and Ignite, which are already tied to crit.
Ghostcrawler Q&A on the Tree of Life changeWe knew changing Tree of Life to a cooldown was going to be controversial. There was just no way a change this big would be unanimously accepted. My apologies if being a tree was what really drew you to the class.
We didn't add new rotational spells to Restoration or Feral cat because, good lord, you have enough buttons already. We tried hard with Cataclysm to not add new spells just because. The specs that got new spells were ones we think had big holes in their rotation. You'll still get new talents and mechanics so I expect there will be a lot to learn when the big game-changing patch rolls around.
In short, are we trading the current Tree bonuses for a throughput cooldown, or are we gaining a throughput cooldown? Gaining one is fine--for all that the preview listed "no new spells," you guys are clearly on top of that (regrowth crit to an AoE heal and a throughput cooldown, at least). Trading bonuses for a throughput cooldown, however, is simply at odds with HoT healing, which is all about consistency.
This is what we're trying to do. On live today, druids are balanced around healing in tree form, meaning they give up a lot of utility just to be as good as other healers. When Tree of Life is a cooldown, then you'll be balanced healing in night elf, troll, worgen or tauren form, and then you'll be more powerful when in tree form. The nice thing about cooldowns is the difference can be pretty significant while active.
(Concerning popularity of the change to Tree of Life) There is a large difference between "controversial" and being close to unanimously hated.
You don't have any evidence of that though. Even within this thread, there are plenty of players who like the change. It's not like we design around public vote anyway, but if you look at the old "Is Tree form fun?" thread, there were a lot of players on both sides of the argument. It was a change we wanted to do anyway, but we tested the water to see if the change would be unanimously hated. We concluded there were plenty of players in favor of it. I don't know if the split was 50 / 50 or what, but it doesn't really matter because it wasn't a poll. It was just to take the community's temperature.
I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel passionately about any of this. It's fine, understandable even, if you do. I'm just asking you not to assume that everyone must naturally feel the same way you do.
We might (*might*) consider a minor glyph that kept the visual of the old tree form in some fashion even when not using the Tree of Life cooldown.
GC, please just shoot us straight here. Many of us are adults, and we can accept it if the change is PVP-related as is being speculated on the boards... but your stated rationale in making this change currently counters everything you've previously posted about making gameplay about more interesting choices.
It's not for PvP reasons. We just don't think healing forms are a good idea.
Now if you want to talk about PvP, I'd agree that going tree was an interesting decision back when it came with huge penalties (like movement). That wasn't very fun to actually play in though so we kept chipping away at the differences between being in tree form and not being in tree form until we were left to wonder what the point was. We asked players on these boards and elsewhere how attached they were to the form, and found some loved it, some hated it, and some were indifferent.
I don't fault you at all if you loved the form though and I'm sorry if this makes playing a druid less fun for you.
In response to a repost of Ghostcrawler's class Q & A on the druid:
I'm not sure why this keeps getting brought up as some kind of logical inconsistency that is supposed to mean we aren't allowed to change our minds.
Plus, if you really read the quote, I'm talking about two things:
1) Hey, maybe staying in a single form all the time isn't really that good for the class.
2) Druids use three different resources: mana, energy and rage depending on what form they're in.
Part of our logic here is that tree form doesn't actually do enough. It doesn't change your resource system. It doesn't give you new tree-only abilities. It can't let you be a better healer than the priests, paladins or shaman, and we keep adding things to the list of what druids can do as a tree because it's not fun to be so limited. We started asking ourselves what we were really gaining.
The same can be said about moonkins, yet this isn't happening, why? it appears a double standard.
I've said this before, but we don't think giving up everything (hyperbole, but you get the idea) to go into a dps form is that big a sacrifice, because you're being compared to and presumably want to fill the role of classes and specs that do nothing but dps. It's not a big deal for a druid to give up healing to dps like a mage, because the mage can't heal.
But giving up abilities to heal is tough when priests, paladins and shaman don't have to. If this was a single player game, we'd probably do something like say druids have to fully commit themselves to healing, but if they do, they'll be 10% better at healing than any other class. In an MMO, it doesn't feel fair to do that. So instead you make sacrifices just so you can heal as well as everyone else. But that ends up feeling unfair, so we give you most of the abilities you'd typically ever want to cast, and pretty soon the Tree of Life talent is just changing your visual. If it was super compelling gameplay, we'd probably be talking instead about ways to keep it.
So you're making ToL a CD but what are you going to do about the fact that ToL gives us buffs and gives us a SP bonus that brings our SP equal to other healing classes. Without that buff our spell power is below all other casters are you planning on either raising the amount of sp granted by gear or giving us a talent that gives us that buff
We can put those buffs anywhere in the tree or remove them and just balance around it. Virtually every number in Cataclysm has to change anyway to support new character levels, health pools, combat ratings, going to a single spell rank, etc. There's no reason to worry about how this would affect your relative power in today's live build. At this stage I would focus on mechanics or design intent, not actual numbers. The numbers will start to be more important as we get closer to ship.
As I've said not ten minutes ago, constant polymorph immunity, 200% armor bonus, 15% bonus SP from spirit and 10% extra healing is kind of a big deal. Putting that on a CD is going to make an impact on Druid healing.
None of those things need to be tied to the Tree of Life form though, and in fact they are all examples of the kind of passive bonuses we're trying to winnow out from talent trees.
Are the Tree (on CD) and Moonkin forms being updated? I don't need details, I just would like to know if I can expect to see the same Owl form I have now in the next expac or if we finally will get more polygons at least.
We would like to. Those are on the list, but they're expensive tasks because they require so much art time. You might be willing to have one fewer new boss models in order to get the forms updated, but if we did that and we added a new demon for warlocks and a couple of new models for other class needs here and there and pretty soon all of those bosses are going to end up looking pretty recycled. :(
It will stay on the list though. If we don't get to it for 4.0, there's always 4.1.
My post also addresses your counterpoint. Remove the poly immunity, shift the these-effects-are-only-to-bring-you-up-to-par-with-other-healers off the talent, and reduce the offensive restriction (to, for example, no offensive arcane spells). All of the mechanics reasons are thus addressed. A healing aura (which wouldn't stack, and therefore isn't 100% required) and additional armor (not always useful in PvE, and a tradeoff in PvP) remain, as well as the flavor of each druid role having its own form. The only remaining reason to remove it? Showing off gear.
But under your argument, the only reason to keep it is flavor. You have a talent that essentially says "gives the druid flavor" because all of the actual bonuses are baked in elsewhere. That's our actual concern about the talent: increasingly it doesn't do anything except change your art.
Well, the bartender's saying something about last call, so I'm going to have to duck out. My intent was not to ignore the Ferals or Balance druids out there, or all the other classes with previews who probably resent my spending so much time on the Tree of Life issue, but we knew it would be controversial and I wanted players to know we were listening to them. Perhaps we should have announced it earlier like we did with the DK tanking post, though to be fair, we've hinted at this change coming since Blizzcon.
We didn't add new rotational spells to Restoration or Feral cat because, good lord, you have enough buttons already. We tried hard with Cataclysm to not add new spells just because. The specs that got new spells were ones we think had big holes in their rotation. You'll still get new talents and mechanics so I expect there will be a lot to learn when the big game-changing patch rolls around.
In short, are we trading the current Tree bonuses for a throughput cooldown, or are we gaining a throughput cooldown? Gaining one is fine--for all that the preview listed "no new spells," you guys are clearly on top of that (regrowth crit to an AoE heal and a throughput cooldown, at least). Trading bonuses for a throughput cooldown, however, is simply at odds with HoT healing, which is all about consistency.
This is what we're trying to do. On live today, druids are balanced around healing in tree form, meaning they give up a lot of utility just to be as good as other healers. When Tree of Life is a cooldown, then you'll be balanced healing in night elf, troll, worgen or tauren form, and then you'll be more powerful when in tree form. The nice thing about cooldowns is the difference can be pretty significant while active.
(Concerning popularity of the change to Tree of Life) There is a large difference between "controversial" and being close to unanimously hated.
You don't have any evidence of that though. Even within this thread, there are plenty of players who like the change. It's not like we design around public vote anyway, but if you look at the old "Is Tree form fun?" thread, there were a lot of players on both sides of the argument. It was a change we wanted to do anyway, but we tested the water to see if the change would be unanimously hated. We concluded there were plenty of players in favor of it. I don't know if the split was 50 / 50 or what, but it doesn't really matter because it wasn't a poll. It was just to take the community's temperature.
I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel passionately about any of this. It's fine, understandable even, if you do. I'm just asking you not to assume that everyone must naturally feel the same way you do.
We might (*might*) consider a minor glyph that kept the visual of the old tree form in some fashion even when not using the Tree of Life cooldown.
GC, please just shoot us straight here. Many of us are adults, and we can accept it if the change is PVP-related as is being speculated on the boards... but your stated rationale in making this change currently counters everything you've previously posted about making gameplay about more interesting choices.
It's not for PvP reasons. We just don't think healing forms are a good idea.
Now if you want to talk about PvP, I'd agree that going tree was an interesting decision back when it came with huge penalties (like movement). That wasn't very fun to actually play in though so we kept chipping away at the differences between being in tree form and not being in tree form until we were left to wonder what the point was. We asked players on these boards and elsewhere how attached they were to the form, and found some loved it, some hated it, and some were indifferent.
I don't fault you at all if you loved the form though and I'm sorry if this makes playing a druid less fun for you.
In response to a repost of Ghostcrawler's class Q & A on the druid:
I'm not sure why this keeps getting brought up as some kind of logical inconsistency that is supposed to mean we aren't allowed to change our minds.
Plus, if you really read the quote, I'm talking about two things:
1) Hey, maybe staying in a single form all the time isn't really that good for the class.
2) Druids use three different resources: mana, energy and rage depending on what form they're in.
Part of our logic here is that tree form doesn't actually do enough. It doesn't change your resource system. It doesn't give you new tree-only abilities. It can't let you be a better healer than the priests, paladins or shaman, and we keep adding things to the list of what druids can do as a tree because it's not fun to be so limited. We started asking ourselves what we were really gaining.
The same can be said about moonkins, yet this isn't happening, why? it appears a double standard.
I've said this before, but we don't think giving up everything (hyperbole, but you get the idea) to go into a dps form is that big a sacrifice, because you're being compared to and presumably want to fill the role of classes and specs that do nothing but dps. It's not a big deal for a druid to give up healing to dps like a mage, because the mage can't heal.
But giving up abilities to heal is tough when priests, paladins and shaman don't have to. If this was a single player game, we'd probably do something like say druids have to fully commit themselves to healing, but if they do, they'll be 10% better at healing than any other class. In an MMO, it doesn't feel fair to do that. So instead you make sacrifices just so you can heal as well as everyone else. But that ends up feeling unfair, so we give you most of the abilities you'd typically ever want to cast, and pretty soon the Tree of Life talent is just changing your visual. If it was super compelling gameplay, we'd probably be talking instead about ways to keep it.
So you're making ToL a CD but what are you going to do about the fact that ToL gives us buffs and gives us a SP bonus that brings our SP equal to other healing classes. Without that buff our spell power is below all other casters are you planning on either raising the amount of sp granted by gear or giving us a talent that gives us that buff
We can put those buffs anywhere in the tree or remove them and just balance around it. Virtually every number in Cataclysm has to change anyway to support new character levels, health pools, combat ratings, going to a single spell rank, etc. There's no reason to worry about how this would affect your relative power in today's live build. At this stage I would focus on mechanics or design intent, not actual numbers. The numbers will start to be more important as we get closer to ship.
As I've said not ten minutes ago, constant polymorph immunity, 200% armor bonus, 15% bonus SP from spirit and 10% extra healing is kind of a big deal. Putting that on a CD is going to make an impact on Druid healing.
None of those things need to be tied to the Tree of Life form though, and in fact they are all examples of the kind of passive bonuses we're trying to winnow out from talent trees.
Are the Tree (on CD) and Moonkin forms being updated? I don't need details, I just would like to know if I can expect to see the same Owl form I have now in the next expac or if we finally will get more polygons at least.
We would like to. Those are on the list, but they're expensive tasks because they require so much art time. You might be willing to have one fewer new boss models in order to get the forms updated, but if we did that and we added a new demon for warlocks and a couple of new models for other class needs here and there and pretty soon all of those bosses are going to end up looking pretty recycled. :(
It will stay on the list though. If we don't get to it for 4.0, there's always 4.1.
My post also addresses your counterpoint. Remove the poly immunity, shift the these-effects-are-only-to-bring-you-up-to-par-with-other-healers off the talent, and reduce the offensive restriction (to, for example, no offensive arcane spells). All of the mechanics reasons are thus addressed. A healing aura (which wouldn't stack, and therefore isn't 100% required) and additional armor (not always useful in PvE, and a tradeoff in PvP) remain, as well as the flavor of each druid role having its own form. The only remaining reason to remove it? Showing off gear.
But under your argument, the only reason to keep it is flavor. You have a talent that essentially says "gives the druid flavor" because all of the actual bonuses are baked in elsewhere. That's our actual concern about the talent: increasingly it doesn't do anything except change your art.
Well, the bartender's saying something about last call, so I'm going to have to duck out. My intent was not to ignore the Ferals or Balance druids out there, or all the other classes with previews who probably resent my spending so much time on the Tree of Life issue, but we knew it would be controversial and I wanted players to know we were listening to them. Perhaps we should have announced it earlier like we did with the DK tanking post, though to be fair, we've hinted at this change coming since Blizzcon.
Rogue/cat UI additionsAre cats receiving a similar change for Savage Roar and their UI, or is this going to be completely rogue specific?
It will most likely apply to cats as well.
It will most likely apply to cats as well.
Improving early druid gameplayHas there been any consideration on giving druids cat form at an earlier level? Similar to how hunters will start with a pet at level 1, and shamans getting a melee attack at 3. Also hoping paladins get an extra button to push at earlier levels, as well.
It won't be super low level, but we might switch the levels at which you get cat and bear.
It won't be super low level, but we might switch the levels at which you get cat and bear.
Feral mastery bonusesDoes this mean that druids can no longer have a hybrid Cat / Bear spec and would need to spec specifically? Or would said bonuses only apply depending on what form your in at the time?
It applies to the form you are in at the time.
so when a warrior puts 40 points in arms he gets 40 points worth of melee damage and armor pen and since its the most points in the three trees he gets the mastery. the remaining points in fury gets him 31 points worth of melee damage and melee haste but he doesnt get the mastery. even if its 51 and 20 you still get something. looks like you dont have to put all points in one tree b/c the other trees give you bonus's right?
so when a cat druid puts 52 points in feral tree he gets 52 points of melee damage and melee critical strike damage and since its the most he gets the mastery. The other in resto tree, b/c currently there is 19 points worth of useful feral stuff in the resto tree, he gets 19 points worth of improved healing and mana regen. Is that right? sounds good for pvp but crapy for pve.
Hibernicus, in your warrior example, he only gets the three bonuses for the points spent in Arms. The only thing he gets from Fury are those, presumably juicy or he wouldn't have gone there, talents.
In your druid example, that's a Feral druid (because he spent the most points in Feral) and he doesn't get any Resto bonuses. He may get OOC though, which aint bad.
It applies to the form you are in at the time.
so when a warrior puts 40 points in arms he gets 40 points worth of melee damage and armor pen and since its the most points in the three trees he gets the mastery. the remaining points in fury gets him 31 points worth of melee damage and melee haste but he doesnt get the mastery. even if its 51 and 20 you still get something. looks like you dont have to put all points in one tree b/c the other trees give you bonus's right?
so when a cat druid puts 52 points in feral tree he gets 52 points of melee damage and melee critical strike damage and since its the most he gets the mastery. The other in resto tree, b/c currently there is 19 points worth of useful feral stuff in the resto tree, he gets 19 points worth of improved healing and mana regen. Is that right? sounds good for pvp but crapy for pve.
Hibernicus, in your warrior example, he only gets the three bonuses for the points spent in Arms. The only thing he gets from Fury are those, presumably juicy or he wouldn't have gone there, talents.
In your druid example, that's a Feral druid (because he spent the most points in Feral) and he doesn't get any Resto bonuses. He may get OOC though, which aint bad.
Diversifying restoration spell useWe think there will be more reason to cast Healing Touch (perhaps with some number tweaks) for when you need to heal someone who has a real health deficit.
Druids don't have perfect analogs to the priest heals, but you can imagine Regrowth as the Flash Heal, Nourish as the heal, and Healing Touch as the greater heal. Lifebloom is something you'd put on a tank before healing with Nourish or Healing Touch (which might even refresh the stack). Rejuv will still be good for the reason hots are good. Wild Growth is still a group heal. Tranquility is an emergency heal, and we'll change it to act more like Divine Hymn.
Druids don't have perfect analogs to the priest heals, but you can imagine Regrowth as the Flash Heal, Nourish as the heal, and Healing Touch as the greater heal. Lifebloom is something you'd put on a tank before healing with Nourish or Healing Touch (which might even refresh the stack). Rejuv will still be good for the reason hots are good. Wild Growth is still a group heal. Tranquility is an emergency heal, and we'll change it to act more like Divine Hymn.
Eclipse UI additionHow will the Eclipse Bar factor in how much it shifts?
Damage Done?
Cast Times?
Cast Completions?
Mana Costs?
We're going to try a few different things and see what feels the best. Spells cast is the simplest system, but we also get a little more dynamic system if it was damage done or even if just crits moved the meter more. We still don't want a rotation that is just 1111222211112222.
Damage Done?
Cast Times?
Cast Completions?
Mana Costs?
We're going to try a few different things and see what feels the best. Spells cast is the simplest system, but we also get a little more dynamic system if it was damage done or even if just crits moved the meter more. We still don't want a rotation that is just 1111222211112222.
Simplifying cat DPSHey GC can you expand on what Bashiok mentioned about changing the feral cat damage rotation to be slightly more forgiving? He gave a few examples but I am still curious about it.
The recent Mangle change is a good example. Other candidates include letting Rake last longer, changing Mangle's damage such that it's not such a gigantic dps loss not to Shred, and / or changing the bonus of Savage Roar so that it's not such a crippling dps loss if it falls off. Using Savage Roar after a target with cps on it has died will help too.
We still want the John Madden crowd to be able to try and maximize their dps. We just want players not playing at that level to not be so far behind (though behind is fine).
The recent Mangle change is a good example. Other candidates include letting Rake last longer, changing Mangle's damage such that it's not such a gigantic dps loss not to Shred, and / or changing the bonus of Savage Roar so that it's not such a crippling dps loss if it falls off. Using Savage Roar after a target with cps on it has died will help too.
We still want the John Madden crowd to be able to try and maximize their dps. We just want players not playing at that level to not be so far behind (though behind is fine).
Restoration getting "no significant changes"Other from the universal healing changes Resto Druids have absolutely NOTHING to relearn or spend time to master unlike the other healing class notes released.
Let me know how that Rejuv spamming with WG on cooldown works out for you at 85.
You really want us to be excited that we get to cast something we already have? While we watch everyone else get new and shiny toys? Really? Do you just rewrap your children's xmas presents year after year and expect them to be excited they go the same thing as last year?
You'd just be here in a few months posting "What's the point of Mega Moss? It's too similar to Regrowth and doesn't heal as much as Nourish." By which I mean there's not point giving a new heal to Resto just so your bar looks a little different if you're not going to actually use the spell. Seeing as how many druids don't use much beyond Rejuv and WG today, I'd say we have plenty of heals to find homes for before we worry about adding new ones.
There will be several new talents to consider. The Resto tree still has a lot of passive bonuses in it to be replaced.
If Mega Moss wasn't a watered down version of a current spell - we wouldn't complain about it. The reason we didn't like Nourish is because we already had 2 direct healing spells. Why is it hard to do away with something we don't use that much and give us something new to look forward to?
My fear is the universal answer to a new druid healing spell will be "the reason we didn't like X is because we already had Y."
I'm sorry but have you ever healed as a druid in high-end raids? I regularly use 6 spells: Regrowth, Rejuv, Nourish, Wild Growth, Lifebloom, and Swiftmend; very few fights go by where I don't use all 6. People who do what you described are pretty universally considered bad druids who just try and pad the meters. Changing the way druids and healers in general play based around bad healers is bad design; those bad players will always attempt to do exactly that.
That's not to mention Nature's Swiftness, Nature's Grasp, Barkskin, War Stomp (if adds are out of control), and Faerie Fire if no other druids are available.
I just pulled a couple of heroic Icecrown parses at random from among the best guilds out there. Their druids had like 60% Rejuv and 25% Wildgrowth. I'm sure some of that remainder was LB or Swiftmend or something (like a certain hammer or mace), and maybe they even saved someone's life with one of those spells. But you're going to have a hard time convincing me that druids aren't too effective with just those two spells. That will change in Cataclysm.
Let me know how that Rejuv spamming with WG on cooldown works out for you at 85.
You really want us to be excited that we get to cast something we already have? While we watch everyone else get new and shiny toys? Really? Do you just rewrap your children's xmas presents year after year and expect them to be excited they go the same thing as last year?
You'd just be here in a few months posting "What's the point of Mega Moss? It's too similar to Regrowth and doesn't heal as much as Nourish." By which I mean there's not point giving a new heal to Resto just so your bar looks a little different if you're not going to actually use the spell. Seeing as how many druids don't use much beyond Rejuv and WG today, I'd say we have plenty of heals to find homes for before we worry about adding new ones.
There will be several new talents to consider. The Resto tree still has a lot of passive bonuses in it to be replaced.
If Mega Moss wasn't a watered down version of a current spell - we wouldn't complain about it. The reason we didn't like Nourish is because we already had 2 direct healing spells. Why is it hard to do away with something we don't use that much and give us something new to look forward to?
My fear is the universal answer to a new druid healing spell will be "the reason we didn't like X is because we already had Y."
I'm sorry but have you ever healed as a druid in high-end raids? I regularly use 6 spells: Regrowth, Rejuv, Nourish, Wild Growth, Lifebloom, and Swiftmend; very few fights go by where I don't use all 6. People who do what you described are pretty universally considered bad druids who just try and pad the meters. Changing the way druids and healers in general play based around bad healers is bad design; those bad players will always attempt to do exactly that.
That's not to mention Nature's Swiftness, Nature's Grasp, Barkskin, War Stomp (if adds are out of control), and Faerie Fire if no other druids are available.
I just pulled a couple of heroic Icecrown parses at random from among the best guilds out there. Their druids had like 60% Rejuv and 25% Wildgrowth. I'm sure some of that remainder was LB or Swiftmend or something (like a certain hammer or mace), and maybe they even saved someone's life with one of those spells. But you're going to have a hard time convincing me that druids aren't too effective with just those two spells. That will change in Cataclysm.
Eclipse masteryOur deep Mastery bonus for Balance is Eclipse. What exactly will the bonus be? What if we shape-shift or stop casting for awhile- does the Eclipse bonus decay or disappear?
The bonus will be increased damage to Nature spells or to Arcane spells. We're not sure of the magnitude yet, but it will need to be hefty enough for you to actually want to switch.
It will need some kind of decay -- we don't want you farming naga or whatever before you step into the raid with a full meter -- but it shouldn't decay fast enough that you find normal encounter movement very troubling (for that reason anyway).
The bonus will be increased damage to Nature spells or to Arcane spells. We're not sure of the magnitude yet, but it will need to be hefty enough for you to actually want to switch.
It will need some kind of decay -- we don't want you farming naga or whatever before you step into the raid with a full meter -- but it shouldn't decay fast enough that you find normal encounter movement very troubling (for that reason anyway).
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it. Nothing will be the same. In WoW.com's Guide to Cataclysm you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion. From Goblins and Worgens to Mastery and Guild changes, it's all there for your cataclysmic enjoyment.
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 7)
Arann Apr 10th 2010 11:30PM
Thank you for this post, Tony.
JAREDO Apr 11th 2010 12:18AM
Okay so these forms and character models in general aren't getting updated because they're 'expensive'?
Then why are we -- collectively as a playerbase -- paying them more than a 100 million dollars a month for? That doesn't even include income generated from various other IP related merchandise.
Granted that MMOs are the most expensive genre to develop, and they have to spend a lot of money elsewhere -- its still ridiculous to think that the work needed to conceive, design and implement these models could ever break the bank.
What I mean is an EXTREMELY badass single-player game for any platform can be developed for not even half their monthly income from WoW. Apparently 60% of WoWs world can be completely redesigned, new content can be added and an unprecedented scale of phasing can be implemented, but 12 models couldn't fit the budget? The logic behind his statement just doesn't make sense.
Some of you will argue that the box sales is the integral part of the budget, but I argue why redesign leveling and not the character models if you're partially trying to drawn more people to the game, as well as aid in continuing subscription numbers for the next two years. Its really unappealing to run around some beautiful zones as a character model from 2005.
I love Blizzard and all, but how about they tone down Blizzcon or something so they can 'afford' to give everyone something nice as well as long overdue.
Tooay Apr 11th 2010 3:32AM
It's much more a question of time than it is a question of money. Whether you want it or not, there's only so many people that can work on character models together. Integrity in sizes, styles, demeanor is just too important to have too many different artists working on separate models. It also means that it's very hard to hire new artists when trying to keep that level of integrity.
Which means that only a handful of people would have to redesign the models, the animations, the item and spell interactions, the special effects, every armor model will need tweaking, some small, some major. What sounds like a minor polygon upgrade basically amounts to making whole new models from scratch, for the most used models in the game. As is often mentioned, it's akin to creating a new boss model. Probably even more work.
There's no question that Blizzard has the money to get new models. It's just too expensive in terms of manpower and time The people that could do those models are already working on much more exciting things, like new zones, weapons, armors, enemies and bosses. Which appeal to me and a lot others much more than a facelift.
It's not money, it's time. Even the bear and cat models, they finally had their upgrade because they have very few animations and item interaction, and because Call of the Crusade was a relatively small patch, content-wise, leaving the artists with enough time to work on them.
bmxerbsj Apr 11th 2010 1:01AM
i dont play a Resto druid so im not sure about the ToL change but comments from GC like "but it doesn't really matter because it wasn't a poll." really piss me off. Yes it kind of does matter what your customers think and such arrogance isnt reassuring.
nutzj98 Apr 11th 2010 12:48AM
Yes you are. Because all the trolls are out. And they can't go deal with their own class problems. It's alright though, I'll be downgraded with ya. Bears are next, why not just give us our talent like the other tanks are getting (instead of defense) since bears are just silly and "Druid style". Blizzard fails the Druid.
ChannerT Apr 11th 2010 1:01AM
Noice, no new resto spells and we are losing ToL form. Guess i better start working on the alts
Daryl Apr 11th 2010 1:04AM
I'd like to see Travel Form removed as we already have a cat, perhaps the cat form could have 40% faster movement, or perhaps because we are druids that cat form can move at 100% when you learn the right skill.
I don't think it would be a disadvantage if the travelling cat is the attacking form, just like the flight form is instant cast.
Daryl
nutzj98 Apr 11th 2010 1:04AM
For any of you with real concerns or arguments, I suggest heading over to the O-Boards and checking the class section. There is actually some decent conversations over there. It's not that there isn't a little bit here but this is mainly off-class trolls looking for BP fun. You can ignore them.
nutzj98 Apr 11th 2010 1:05AM
Oh yeah and it's 2010. Is the site ever gonna be more browser friendly? IE is awful and who signs up for AOL anymore?
Breeze Apr 11th 2010 2:01AM
FFFFF Yeah GC! Rejuv and WG nerf with a slight kick in the face to other resto druids. I love it already.
morphh1979 Apr 11th 2010 2:05AM
Hopefully this change will break my addiction i have with WOW. All classes are now becoming even so much more the same again, there is very few "flavor" and "uniqueness"
Spriests lost their "mana battery" uniquness last expansion, Never really enjoyed playing her since 3.4. Now i am going to look like the other priests in a group. Thank you for giving me a few more things to kill this addiction, just a few more PLEASE!!!
morphh1979 Apr 11th 2010 2:09AM
Forgot where i was going with the priest comment.
All abilities are being reused come up with new ones.
Priest with deathdrip now? NO its lifegrip!
Shamans now have an upside down Tranquility. No its healing storm!
wowcomposts Apr 11th 2010 2:16AM
I am leveling a druid at the moment as resto. After this announcement I seriously consider to delete this char. No tree, no druid :(
idmanette Apr 11th 2010 3:44AM
Blizzard claims to have taken the 'temperature' of the community on the loss of tree form. I honestly believe their thermometer is busted.
Eg Apr 12th 2010 12:39PM
People who like the changes don't post, only the ones who feel the need to whine. It's like this with every change. If nobody whined, the game could *finally* get balanced, and would be much more enjoyable to play.
toxicrwk Apr 11th 2010 4:20AM
Im a good druid. Nothing I cant work thru. Nothing wrong with replacing purples, with green and blue.
I raid icc, mostly on 10man and it's hc version, but Im topping healing meters in all fights (average of 4-5k hps) and i use 4 spells. (Rejuv 25% Regrowth 25% Wild Growth 25% and Nourish 25%) I never use lifebloom, i rarely use swiftmend, and Healing Touch is just as useless as SPI to a healadin.
Praiseworthy Apr 11th 2010 4:36AM
1st of all, I've played 2 Druids, both of which, were Trees. One had a Moonkin Offspec, the other had a Bear offspec. But both Druids were main spec Trees for 3 reasons:
#1.) The armor and the polymorph immunity were just awesome in PvP
#2.) The increased healing was very nice, and I loved the way the spells worked out, you could pretty much just HoT the tank, spam Nourish and eat a sandwhich, and yes, I have actually done that when Ulduar was the top-tier raid, and it wasn't much different in ToC. Of course, in ICC, you have to be a little more alert.
#3.) The looks. The first day I logged onto my first character, which was a Blood Elf Rogue, been Horde ever since, I saw a Tauren Tree Druid helping an Orc Warrior kill some Alliance attacking the front gates of Silvermoon. I sat there and just watched the Tree heal the Warrior while he killed the Alliance players. After thinking about maybe being like that Druid, being a Tree, and having people depend on me to keep them alive, well, that sounded really cool.
So anyways, I start talking to this Tree, which at the time was back in BC days, so he was level 70 fully decked out in BT/SW/TK gear, and I began to ask him a bunch of noob questions, like, "How do you become a Tree? What spec is it? How fun is it?" and he just answered everything so perfectly, I literally fell in love with the idea of being a Tree Druid.
So I got my Rogue to level 70 two weeks before WotLK came out, so I missed out on a lot of raiding of course. When WotLK comes out, I check out the DK class, got that to 80 after my Rogue got to 80. I started hitting up Naxx when it was the top-tier raid on both toons. My guild ended up needing a healer for Naxx 25man, we were on KT btw, and I see my old Tree friend log on, and I immediately realize 2 things:
#1.) Invite him, he's the ToP (Tree of Pwn)
#2.) I had been seriously neglecting my Tree Druid, was still only at level 68, and still in Shadowmoon Valley.
After we downed KT, my Tree friend asks me why haven't I leveled my Druid to 80 yet, why was I focusing so much on my Rogue and my DK.
My answer, I didn't know...
So, for the next three weeks, I dedicated all my WoW-time to leveling my first Druid to 80, and becoming the next ToP (see above)
After about 2 1/2 weeks, my Druid gets to level 78, and my guild asked that I started coming back to the raids again, which of course, could not be so easily ignored.
So, when my Druid hits 80, finally, I was a Tree, and my new healing mentor, taught me everything he knew about healing as a Tree in raids and in PvP, I of course focused mostly on PvP, because watching him PvP is what inspired me to become a Tree Druid in the first place. So eventually, i get geared up, and I start to ask myself the same question he asked me when my Druid was still only level 68. Why did i spend so much time and effort on a Rogue and a DK.
After you play a Druid, any Druid, not just Trees, you begin to realize what the game is all about, having fun. Druids are fun. Trees of course, being the funnest thing to do in the game for, well, pretty much anybody who has ever actually played one.
So when dual spec comes out, I dual spec one of my Druids as a Bear, never bothered with it after I did it though, waste of 1000 gold right there.
My 2nd Druid became an off spec Moonkin, which was used for leveling, and after I hit 80, never touched that spec again. I now had two Tree Druid healers, both main spec. Why? Because it's fun.
So today, me and my Tree friend are talking, and we had both just read about the changes to Tree form. We were both pretty bummed, me especially, I was just hoping I wouldn't lose my taste for the Druid class.
Later, I get into an ICC 25man run with some random PuG, and we need a few more healers, I was on my DK, I went to ask my Tree friend if he wanted to come heal. When I opened up my friends list, I see he wasn't online. I search his guild on the Who tab... I personally couldn't believe it, he was on his undergeared unholy DK that he had not played since it hit 80 back in August. What toon was I on you may ask? I, was on my DK as well, but mine was actually pretty well geared, being the only difference between mine and his. I'm mostly ICC/ToC geared, while he's mostly in gear from heroic dungeons.
But the gear is not the point, I asked him to come heal, he said, "Nah, I think I'm gonna start playing my DK dude."
I had pretty much made the same decision.
My and my mentor, the coolest dude I knew on this game, and that I had known for years now, had both lost the taste we had for the Druid class, and the whole Tree-nerf thing hasn't even happened yet, we already lost interest.
So my guess is, he will probably stop playing, and I'll probably just stick to my DK.
So, there you go Blizzard, by getting rid of Tree of Life form in Cataclysm, you have failed the Tree Druid class, and possibly made it so anybody who has ever played a Druid healer to never log onto that character again. The same might go for me, unless I somehow get into tanking or ranged dps, which is unlikely, but we'll see.
And yes, I did notice people did like to stick around me when I was in Tree form.
And one more thing in this extremely long post, anbody who has ever complained about healing as a Tree, you should do the following 2 things:
#1.) Delete your Druid character, because you honestly do not get the point of healing as a Tree Druid, and therefor do not really deserve to play one.
#2.) Take your right foot, shove it into your back side, and break you foot off with a quick twist, because if you don't, I will, because thinking like the way you think deserves a foot in the rear end, forever.
Praiseworthy Apr 11th 2010 4:37AM
P.S. And I mean, FOREVER.......
Caz Apr 11th 2010 5:52AM
If Blizzard were looking at both sides of the argument, why are they now just looking at the idea of a minor glyph for ToL, why wasn't this already included for those who like their tree form, it seems to me that they are backtracking on themselves.
The idea of a minor glyph sounds good, but I still feel kinda of betrayed, I love that tree form even if it looks kinda ugly sometimes.
I would have much rather that instead of removing it to a cooldown they revamped it, and if it wasn't as useful they give it something like the cats or bears.
I feel kinda of defeated, because I don't see how those who love the tree form were listened to, except after much complaints, they MIGHT consider a minor glyph.
I think a lot of people who levelled their druid to be a tree, will be moving onto other classes and so that will mean the druid class will drop.
Randomrestodruid Apr 11th 2010 8:42AM
Wow, where were you people when Blizz asked about making Tree form a cooldown LAST YEAR? I never heard any such whining about it then. All I heard was that people would be so glad to finally see their armor. If you had wanted it not to happen, you should've shouted out so loudly BACK THEN. You missed your chance, end of story.
Also, really, your gonna quit playing your Druids because you liked Tree of Dead Broccoli form? I didn't think so many other Druids actually liked that wreck. I mean seriously, after all the hard work Druids put into getting our gear, you guys CAN'T possibly tell me that you wouldn't like to be able to see your gear when actually going out and doing things with it.
Bottom line is, our heals are going to be strengthened out of tree form to match other classes normally. We'll now have an additional healing boost when we use our tree form cooldown. Bonus: We have access to all of our abilities while healing now.
PS: If you didn't want to see a Tauren, or a night elf, you shouldn't have rolled the race, even if you liked the class.