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4-13-2010 @ 5:17PM
I agree, and my own blog entry on this started out with "First, a bit of history..." and explained that we didn't stand around in Molten Core wearing anything but our own skin. However, druids are shapeshifters. That is the central aspect of our class. Every one of our roles corresponds to a specific form, and one of the iconic things about the class is that you can instantly tell what role a druid is filling based on his or her form. We were traditionally healers, back in vanilla, so if we have to stay in caster form for one of our roles, healing makes the most sense. At the same time, it's definitely a loss. Bigbearbutt said it best over at his blog:"I know that Ghostcrawler seems to feel that the Treeform mechanic doesn’t add anything to the game, it doesn’t bring anything special to the Restoration Druid’s table.It does.What it brings is Treeform itself. What he just doesn’t seem to grasp is that Treeform, for a Restoration Druid, is a goal in and of itself. Not something to be pity Glyphed, but an outwards symbol of a Druid Healer’s resolve."
4-13-2010 @ 5:27PM
Hey, while we're at it, let's make cat form a cooldown, along with bear, and moonkin. Seriously Blizzard?I'm sorry, but I've just spent the time gearing up my tree. I love druid healing. I love walking around as a tree. It's just plain awesome. Ferals are always cats. Feral tanks are always bears. Moonkins are always moonkins. Trees are...NOT always trees now? This is friggin stupid. We are damn shapeshifters -- we have to be in our shapeshift form. Being able to stay in your form is one of the biggest aesthetic points to being a druid. It's one of the reasons it makes the class so unique.I'm sorry, but "an ugly, low-resolution model" is a HORRIBLE excuse. Blizzard makes new models and art with each major patch. Why is it SO HARD for them to make a new tree form? Plus, I like the tree form graphics anyway. Making it higher-res would simply be more icing on the cake.Removing tree form from being passive is probably one of the DUMBEST things I've read about Cataclysm, and makes me want to not play as a druid anymore -- at least for healing. I'm almost betting this will change -- I mean, seriously, does anyone else feel a big WTF here?
4-13-2010 @ 5:29PM
Agreed. For the most part, I'm assuming that losing tree -form- isn't going to nerf the healing role. The buffs tree form brings will be rolled into the talents and base abilities we have. However, I'm not angry because I don't want to lose the buffs, I'm angry because I LIKE the tree -form- Update the graphics, allow it to be sheepable even, but healing as a night elf while every other aspect a druid can be has a form feels like we're less of what a druid is. A shapeshifter.
4-13-2010 @ 5:35PM
@kilanaDamn straight. I seriously feel like I'm an alien on this planet sometimes. Why the hell are people OK with removing your SHAPESHIFTING form? Why are restos being singled out of the 4 forms we have? What the hell is wrong with you Blizzard? Fuck your cooldown tree.
4-13-2010 @ 5:37PM
Druids are shapeshifters. Yes, that is true, to an extent. You have multiple forms, and you can move (almost) freely between them. I'm gonna go back to WC3 for an argument. Malfurion never shifted. Ever. His druids of both claw and talon stayed in caster form much of the time, because it was strategic to do some of what we call caster form and some of their shifted forms. Staying always in form was considered BAD, lorewise. The druids of the claw went insane because they stayed in bear form so much, and it took the influence of Cenarius to fix that. Then there's another thing. Shapeshifting may be your core class mechanic, but it is not your core class issue. If you want something connected to the mainstay of druidism, why don't druids have an Emerald Dream-related ability? Maybe that's something you'll get, if not in this expansion, then in one more directly connected to the Emerald Dream and the Nightmare. I'd certainly like to see it, as it would be a return to the original concept of what a druid is.
4-13-2010 @ 5:44PM
As far as I'm concerned, they can cooldown Bear, Cat, and Moonkin too if they rebalance the talents not to need them as full-time. I like Shapeshift, but it gets tiring as an all the time thing. I played a Druid as my main for years, and still heal on my druid in heroics and PuG raids to this day. I am more than happy to see Tree go away. It's getting annoying. I want to show off my gear.
4-13-2010 @ 5:47PM
Glad to see your concerned about showing off, Daniel, rather than being an awesome tree. I don't care if I have 20000 GS, I want my damn tree.
As a main spec bear (but off spec everything--2 armor sets and change), I definitely understand both sides of the argument. As a neutral third-party, it's obvious that Tree Form was not good for the class. Arbitrary limits on what we can do just aren't fun when every other healer lacks them. However, if they removed bear form, even with the caveat that we'd be able to tank in caster, I can say with 100% certainty I would quit the game. A Druid's form is integral to identifying with his character (Blizzard understands this to some extent, or they would have removed Tree altogether). All I can say is, I trust Blizzard to do what's best for the class and the game.
4-13-2010 @ 5:51PM
Cat form and Bear form are mandatory for their roles. I can't picture a night elf mangling something with his fingers or a Tauren pouncing from 20 yards away. I can picture a tauren or a night elf (or a troll or a worgen) casting Regrowth or Wrath while in their natural state just like every other caster class. Why Blizzard targeted trees and not boomkin I can't say. Possibly they believe that healer versatility is more important (for PVP and PVE) than dps versatility. I do have to sympathize though ... tree form does look badass, and I would hate to lose it.
@SedirexIsn't that a bit hypocritical? You say you'd quit the game if they removed your Bear form, and that's it's integral to the identity of a druid, yet it's OK for healer's tree form to be nerfed to a cooldown? No, sir.
4-13-2010 @ 6:12PM
I couldn't agree more - the blog entry on this over at BBBB expressed exactly how I feel about my tree form. Sometimes it feels like the spirit of the game is being sacrificed to the numbers, balancing and mechanics (though they are critical too). To dismiss that 'it doesn't bring anything to the table' is a bit narrow in viewing elements of the classes.I don't want a pity glyph, I want the form to resonate some purpose and benefit to the group I'm playing in. I get to admire my epeen whenever I'm not healing, and most gear tends to be homogenised versions of each other that this element doesn't really matter to me.
4-13-2010 @ 6:38PM
@catharsis80It's not really hypocritical, because a druid who tries to DPS out of cat form won't do squat. And a druid who tries to tank out of bear form will get squashed. You can heal just fine without tree form.Personally, I'd rather they made moonkin form a cooldown as well. It's not necessary for DPSing as Balance, same as tree isn't necessary for Resto.
4-13-2010 @ 6:54PM
"However, druids are shapeshifters."A fallacy if ever there was one.From a lore standpoint, shapeshifting is but one aspect of Druids. Druids are not shapeshifters, Druids are disciples of nature who happen to shapeshift.I can sympathize with the people on the other side, losing something you identify your class with is rough, but at the same time, look at it from the other side of things. Tree form is hideous and really serves no purpose outside of placating people who claim that shapeshifting is the point of Druids when really shapeshifting was only even an aspect to one spec of the class when the game debuted and for almost a year afterward. The point of Druids has always been as a caster class that manipulated nature to great effect, the shapeshifting thing is something that kind of moved into it over the years.Complain about the class changing all you want, that's fair. Don't pretend it's some kind of affront to the core point and mechanics of the class, though, as that's simply not true.
4-13-2010 @ 6:55PM
@ RuhigOnly because they've programmed the bear that way. They could easily assign Claw, Rake, Mangle, Swipe to your caster form if they wanted to. And yes, you're right, if they're doing it to trees, they should do it to mookins, too. That being said, they should do it to NEITHER.
4-13-2010 @ 6:57PM
@JohnathanYou say druids being a shapeshifters are a fallacy, yet you say they can shapeshift. You lost me there, man. Can't read the rest.
4-13-2010 @ 8:16PM
people, have you even READ the article? did you understand why tree is obsolete?
4-13-2010 @ 8:35PM
Last year, when I was rolling an alt with my GF, I had the choice of a druid and a shammy. Both could easily tank or heal up to around lvl 40-50, depending on a gear swap. I choose a druid b/c of tree form.I choose a druid b/c of being in forms. Period.My druid is a kitty first, a tree second. I love my tree form. Do I enjoy the model for it, not really. Its old, it needs an update, but it's still better seeing my bovine butt. As for being able to see my gear, I want to see my weapons. The rest of my gear is ugly as hell. The only thing its good for imo is when I go to buff, people can look at me and see I'm not a fresh toon, they see I'm experienced.Honestly, if you are going to take away TOL perma-form, take away Boomkin form. Turn them both into CD's. Honestly, there is no difference between the 2: both need talent points to gain it, both sacrifice part of the spell book to gain an increase in something (boomkin sacrifices heals for DPS, TOL sacrifices DPS for heals). The only difference is what they are aimed at.If you are one of those glory hogs that want to show off their ugly ass gear (hasnt looked good since TBC) then lets give them a minor glyph to disable TOL/boomkin form. Lets bake the actual form INTO a talent they plan on keeping around. On that note, I leave you this: http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg84/VSUReaper/gcthelumberjack.jpg
4-13-2010 @ 9:14PM
I switched from my Hunter to my Druid during Karazhan. Other than leveling to 60, I've spent all my time as a tree. I hated it during BC. I spent as much time out of Tree form as I could. It is ugly, and it is boring. I'm glad I've finally got enough gear that I don't need tree form in heroics today. I run as caster on my frosties and couldn't be happier about it.I will miss the tree's /cry emote. I will miss the tree's /dance emote. And yes, sometimes it's fun to run up and melee the boss with the rest of the boomkin's treants.Maybe I'd be happier as a tree if my model were better. I'm not sure. I'm very sure that I enjoy looking at my character as she gains new gear or gets a new look at the barber.Does no one remember the endless threads of complaints from cats and bears who had been 'stuck' looking the same ever since vanilla release? Whether they were killing VanCleef, Ragnaros or Kil'Jaeden, they looked the same. As for the "druids are defined by what form they are in" comments... When's the last time you saw any of the Staghelms or Stormrages in anything but caster form? Go back to the original WOW trailer and watch the druid. She's in caster form until it behooves her to switch to a feral form. Druids in the lore don't spend 100% of their time in forms. I'm glad that I won't have to either.Yes, we are shapeshifters. Give me flexibility on when to use each form, regardless of my spec, and give me reasons to use them. I'll gladly give up one of my forms for that. That would be much more preferable to the current playstyle where you shapeshift once after the buffs are done, and don't shift again until you or the boss is dead.
4-13-2010 @ 9:18PM
@Eldoron:I'm perfectly willing to agree that the mechanics of tree form are obsolete. But the *tree* is not obsolete. It's like saying green neckties are obsolete. Maybe they are, but that doesn't mean the color green is obsolete. It can't be obsolete...it's a color. Tree form is the color green. I think a lot of us feel that we have invested much of our identity as healers in the tree form, and while we don't think that taking away tree form will take away our *ability* to heal, we do think that it will take away our *identity* as healers. Tree form means something to a lot of us (even many of us, like myself, who were druid healers in vanilla) above and beyond its actual effect on game play and healing. Thus, any argument that it isn't needed, or is even detrimental, from a game mechanic standpoint does not actually address our reasons for thinking that tree form is not obsolete and is, in fact, a core piece of our class.
4-14-2010 @ 12:56AM
With treeform how it is now, why don't they just make a druid "race" and remove it from Tauren and Night Elf. Now you can be in a shapeshift the whole time, without a pesky caster form to bug you. The core of the Druid class is that they are connected to nature, not that they shapeshift. It's true that they do, but it's simply one of the mechanics, not the core idea. I do sympathize with losing something you've had for so long, but at the moment a permanent shapeshift for all forms makes players lose their association with their race, and almost makes meaningless the act of giving druids two new races. True, you'd get different racials, but visually you'd never see very much difference between a troll and a tauren druid, and isn't this argument about visuals?However, I see no problem with putting in a glyph for those that are truly bugged by losing a permanent shapeshift, and I foresee a new glyph at the center of the glyph ring for visual effects such as that.
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