Battle resurrections may get increased cooldowns

Obviously things like Rebirth can't just be handed to out to more classes unless we did something like a second exhaustion mechanic for battle rez or whatever. For now we're going to try the cooldown at 30 min again. In Icecrown's world of limited attempts, a 30 min cooldown likely meant you just cooled your heels until the cooldown was available again. In Cataclysm the hope is sometimes you'll have the benefit available but not every time, which scales back on how much of a game-changer it is.
An alternative to a longer cooldown for Rebirth is something where one druid using it would trip everyone's cooldown for a few minutes. That it's a bit gamey, but might solve the problem.
Also keep in mind that Rebirth is much more useful in today's game where people tend to die from massive damage. In a world where people sometimes die because the healers have run out of mana, then Rebirth doesn't buy you quite as much.
An alternative to a longer cooldown for Rebirth is something where one druid using it would trip everyone's cooldown for a few minutes. That it's a bit gamey, but might solve the problem.
Also keep in mind that Rebirth is much more useful in today's game where people tend to die from massive damage. In a world where people sometimes die because the healers have run out of mana, then Rebirth doesn't buy you quite as much.
I think there's a cogent point there about the extent to which raid mechanics have to reflect the current state of raid buffs and cooldowns (and vice versa, I guess), and there are a few additional clues as to Blizzard's thought process on Cataclysm encounters. Right now it's so damn easy for players to die to massive raid damage or even targeted abilities (e.g., heroic Blood Princes, heroic Lana'thel, Harvest Soul and Spirit Burst on the Lich King) that Rebirthing a fallen player is pretty routine. A 10-minute cooldown on battle resurrection has also made the limited attempts mechanic in Icecrown more bearable.
Then again, on truly difficult encounters, a 30-minute cooldown is still going to be one ugly mother. It wasn't all that long ago that my raid seriously debated whether to wait between Kael'thas attempts for our warriors' Shield Wall cooldowns to come up (30 minutes!), and the idea of doing the Cataclysm equivalents of Yogg+0 or ToGC-25 Anub'arak with only two battle rezzes an hour per druid is enough to give me hives.
It's another blow for druids, who are already reeling from the probable loss of Tree of Life form, but I guess we'll see how it plays out on the beta. If the need to heal raid damage requires less in the way of hair-trigger reflexes, then we really may not notice the increased cooldown as much. However, between things like this and the large-scale retreat of raid and damage buffs, I'm becoming more and more certain that Cataclysm is the closest thing we're going to see to a "classic server" experience.
Filed under: Druid, Analysis / Opinion






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Oteo Apr 16th 2010 9:03AM
Druid is irked. :l
Zalvi24 Apr 16th 2010 9:35AM
i really like the idea of the 30 min CD to rebirth back, it shouldn't be something that you have to rely on every boss fight/attempt, is an "oh shit" button to bring back a tank or a healer, not on dps that cant fallow orders( unless the dps is doing the most damage and is needed for rage timer) in a 25 man u can get away with a dps dying, but not a healer or tank
Kevo Apr 16th 2010 9:08AM
No big thing. I'm a druid and I approve this message. With all of the mechanics of fights and such changing, this is an OK change in my book. I don't like how DPS' stand in fire and die and expect me to instantly waste my rebirth cooldown on them because it's only ten minutes. I can barely get out "I'm sorry, but I'm saving that for a heale....yea the one that just died," in today's end game content. Battle rez should still mean something and be saved for emergencies only.
johan Apr 16th 2010 9:15AM
I concur. Rebirth is an amazing ability. It just feels so wrong that in about 90% of the time it's used to res a dps that stood in fire, over aggroed or something else that could have been easily avoided.
It be som much more fun if it were used to res that tank or a healer to push out that final needed healing, instead of resing a dps and kill the boss two seconds faster. Ofcourse that happens but it's a rare sight. I guess I want more epic moments :)
Thram Apr 16th 2010 9:40AM
Try the hardmode on Iron Council in Ulduar and you'll find that tank rez is a beautiful thing.
I wonder a bit, actually, about how the current 'bursty' damage content will be come the changes in Cata. Will we be able to still run ICC or will healers not be able to keep up with that damage?
Docp Apr 16th 2010 10:09AM
Almost certainly yes we will be able to do ICC at 85 even if they do change the game a lot. For one thing Blizzard want everyone to have larger healthpools which will make a lot of these insta-kill abilities less...deathy. Equally whilst the relative values of spells may change you can bet that our damage abilities and heal abilities will increase because Blizzard knows that people want their numbers to increase and if we go from say 10,000DPS back to 2,000 in cata end game there'll be mass nerd rage.
So for example now Paladins might be healing 20-30k on a 60k tank which is about 50% of their health, but in cata they might be healing 25-35k on a 100k tank or 1/3rd, but when you got back to old content it's still bigger heals, and the DPS will equally be doing more damage to prevent any mana problems.
Jorges Apr 16th 2010 12:06PM
Agree completely. I think the 10 min CD on Rebirth contributed to increase the "fail factor" on raids. This mostly affect DPS'ers, who think that we druids are Brez/Innervate Machines. Some of them carelessly stand on the fire or burn all they mana just to top the meters, knowing that there are 3 - 4 druids in the group that could take the crap from them. And I've seen some healers do the same, wich is unaceptable.
In my raid group, I just let them stay dead if they epic failed. Unless my RL calls for a Brez/Innervate from me, I save it for a tank/healer.
So yeah, bring back the 30 min CD.
Ishne Apr 16th 2010 2:44PM
"I don't like how DPS' stand in fire and die and expect me to instantly waste my rebirth cooldown on them because it's only ten minutes. I can barely get out "I'm sorry, but I'm saving that for a heale....yea the one that just died," in today's end game content. Battle rez should still mean something and be saved for emergencies only."
I agree, to an extent. I have to fight this battle with the other druids in my guild, because they have itchy Rebirth fingers and rez people immediately without considering long-term consequences, so that when a healer dies there might not be a rez available because 3 people used it at once on a DPS who died in a fire. I usually solve this problem by having a Rebirth order and priority list for who gets a rez. That means the off tanks and healers get rezzed before DPS, and DPS who are interrupting, etc., get rezzed before DPS who are just pew-pewing. I also wait before issuing rezzes to non-essential raiders so I can see if we're going to wipe, or need to rez someone else. If I think I might actually need brez, I don't rez people who die from avoidable damage if it's something they do a lot, because it's a waste of my time and mana, but accidents happen and people screw up sometimes, so this is mostly a judgement call. (For my own sanity, I ignore people who whisper me for a rez. I know why you died and I know if I need to rez you, kthnx bai.)
However, I think the issue of "save rez for emergencies" should remain in the hands of the raiders, and not be imposed on us by painfully lengthy cooldowns. If brez is a problem, assign a healing lead to manage it. A long-CD brez will just make it more difficult when multiple people rez the same target -- at least with a short CD, if people screw up, you can go back in, rebuff, and the CD will be ready for the next emergency. I also think a long CD will make people more reluctant to use it even when they need it. In Ulduar, we used to wait for brez to be up before attempting difficult fights, which led to a lot of thumb-twiddling. We don't have to do this in ICC, and yes, I think it can make people lazy and over-reliant on brez, but at the same time it's so much less frustrating to be able to just raid, instead of wait on timers just to be prepared.
clundgren Apr 16th 2010 3:55PM
Why are dps demanding rezzes at all, or anything else mid-battle for that matter? Your raid isn't going to get far with that kind of chaos happening.
In my raid, ONLY the raid leader calls for battle rezzes, bloodlust, etc. Battle rez only goes to a dps if it's a situation like Deathwhisper where losing a dps can mean a fail. Otherwise, rezzes are saved for tanks or healers. If I go down, the attempt might take a bit longer, but if our main tank goes down, we only have a few seconds to fix it.
Unless you're one of the raid officers, talking on vent or demanding a battle rez during an encounter would be an instant ticket to the standby bench.
Sargenus Apr 16th 2010 5:05PM
"Unless you're one of the raid officers, talking on vent or demanding a battle rez during an encounter would be an instant ticket to the standby bench."
Seeing this depresses me. This is why I love my guild so much. We screw around and talk in vent, not as much as during an encounter, but enough that people like this will go "STANDBY D:
clundgren Apr 16th 2010 5:27PM
I love my guild, and between encounters you can talk, joke, whatever all you want. But in mid-battle the last thing we need is 15 different people making decisions for the raid.
This seems obvious to me. It's not oppressive at all, just common sense.
Sargenus Apr 16th 2010 5:57PM
Hrngh. My entire post got cut off and I just noticed. Like hell I'm posting it again. -.-
Hih Apr 16th 2010 9:10AM
All long cooldowns do is make guilds take long breaks between attempts on progression fights. Not fun.
CaryEverett Apr 16th 2010 9:27AM
Really this.
I hope Blizzard backpedals on this idea.
If there's a concern about too many people having Rebirth, then perhaps Exhaustion is a viable solution. But please don't make this cooldowns so long that we go back to "Okay I have 5 more minutes on my Ribirth, let's wait to pull"
Gawd. No more waiting while raiding, please.
glyakk Apr 16th 2010 10:07AM
I agree this was and still is to a much lesser degree a problem with raiding. I have no problem with the need to make rebirth much less accessiable but increasing its cooldown would cause raids to simply wait out the cooldown. I think some kind of mechanic where it was only usable once per boss fight. For example, when you first enter an instance you are given one charge for rebirth, then only when you down a boss are you refunded that charge if you used it.
Vogie Apr 16th 2010 10:37AM
I always wondered what was stopping them from implementing a "Fork is in - we're done" while raiding.
If *everyone* in the raid dies, all the cooldowns reset. Period.
I'm not saying give everything an exhaustion/sated/forbearance effect, but a general mechanical understanding of "everyone is dead, and we're resetting for another go".
Trinkets, damaging cooldowns, et cetera. These should be implemented for questing, 5-mans, pvp, and farm raids. Don't kill the progression spirit by having them sit around for 20 minutes for Rebirth to come back online after getting roflstomped.
That being said, I'd love another class to have the soulstone effect... or as our Warlock calls it, "term life insurance"
Daniel Apr 16th 2010 10:45AM
I agree but it really is a problem. It has less to do with design mechanics and more to do with player psychology. If you make the Rebirth cooldown too short, then all it does is become an excuse button for bad playing, like dps who die in the fire. Other players know that spell is there and they use it as a crutch. OTOH, if you make the CD too long, then when there is a real snafu and you need the spell, the entire raid cools it heels and I agree that is not fun.
One possible answer is to keep the CD @ 10 minutes but increase the mana cost so that Druids has to make a serious choice between keeping the raid healed or casting it every ten minutes. For example, Rebith could have an exhaustion type mechanic on it where it reduced the Druid's mana regen by 20% for the next five minutes after being cast. You'd probably be willing to pay that price for when the tank goes down but it's enough of a negative that you'd think twice about using it every refresh on the DPS.
The problem is that I don't have a full grasp of how mana regen will work in the expansion and I don't know if that is a viable option or not.
catharsis80 Apr 16th 2010 11:43AM
I play a resto druid, and that just tells me that if an entire raid is THAT dependent on ONE single ability of one single class that they will wait it out that long, it's already either too OP, or people are dying too easily, or something else is wrong...somewhere.
clevins Apr 16th 2010 11:44AM
If it's just druids with battle rez a long CD is a bad idea. But as I read GC's comment he seems to imply that at least one other class will have it... so unless everyone uses theirs up the fact that each one has a long CD isn't that bad. And, frankly, if you blow through 5, 6 or 7 brezes on an attempt, you probably SHOULD wait a bit and consider what you're doing wrong... :)
clundgren Apr 16th 2010 3:48PM
Rumour has it that paladins are getting a version, which might explain the new cooldown.