Battle resurrections may get increased cooldowns

GhostcrawlerObviously things like Rebirth can't just be handed to out to more classes unless we did something like a second exhaustion mechanic for battle rez or whatever. For now we're going to try the cooldown at 30 min again. In Icecrown's world of limited attempts, a 30 min cooldown likely meant you just cooled your heels until the cooldown was available again. In Cataclysm the hope is sometimes you'll have the benefit available but not every time, which scales back on how much of a game-changer it is.
An alternative to a longer cooldown for Rebirth is something where one druid using it would trip everyone's cooldown for a few minutes. That it's a bit gamey, but might solve the problem.
Also keep in mind that Rebirth is much more useful in today's game where people tend to die from massive damage. In a world where people sometimes die because the healers have run out of mana, then Rebirth doesn't buy you quite as much.
An alternative to a longer cooldown for Rebirth is something where one druid using it would trip everyone's cooldown for a few minutes. That it's a bit gamey, but might solve the problem.
Also keep in mind that Rebirth is much more useful in today's game where people tend to die from massive damage. In a world where people sometimes die because the healers have run out of mana, then Rebirth doesn't buy you quite as much.
I think there's a cogent point there about the extent to which raid mechanics have to reflect the current state of raid buffs and cooldowns (and vice versa, I guess), and there are a few additional clues as to Blizzard's thought process on Cataclysm encounters. Right now it's so damn easy for players to die to massive raid damage or even targeted abilities (e.g., heroic Blood Princes, heroic Lana'thel, Harvest Soul and Spirit Burst on the Lich King) that Rebirthing a fallen player is pretty routine. A 10-minute cooldown on battle resurrection has also made the limited attempts mechanic in Icecrown more bearable.
Then again, on truly difficult encounters, a 30-minute cooldown is still going to be one ugly mother. It wasn't all that long ago that my raid seriously debated whether to wait between Kael'thas attempts for our warriors' Shield Wall cooldowns to come up (30 minutes!), and the idea of doing the Cataclysm equivalents of Yogg+0 or ToGC-25 Anub'arak with only two battle rezzes an hour per druid is enough to give me hives.
It's another blow for druids, who are already reeling from the probable loss of Tree of Life form, but I guess we'll see how it plays out on the beta. If the need to heal raid damage requires less in the way of hair-trigger reflexes, then we really may not notice the increased cooldown as much. However, between things like this and the large-scale retreat of raid and damage buffs, I'm becoming more and more certain that Cataclysm is the closest thing we're going to see to a "classic server" experience.
Filed under: Druid, Analysis / Opinion
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Neirin Apr 16th 2010 4:36PM
Perhaps this is an indication that Blizz is leaning towards longer fights. Brez as it is now can only be used once per fight (ok, maybe twice on LK, but you'd have to use it pretty early, which you shouldn't have to), so extending the cooldown only encourages people to go afk before bosses rather than discourage the use of the spell. If the average fight lasted more like 15 mins instead of a bit more than 5 mins, however, the spell would get much more powerful. One obvious advantage of this from a design standpoint would be that it would put extra strain on healer mana pools.
Similar things can be said about Lust/Hero, though, and we haven't heard anything about them being changed so I could be way off base.
stochastic Apr 16th 2010 9:12AM
IIRC the reason for reducing the really long cooldowns was that it meant that for every 1 in 4 or 5 or 6 attempts you had a big advantage. They felt that once they reduced these cooldowns to once every attempt they could balance them so that it wasn't a huge advantage. What they didn't realize was there isn't much balancing that you can do to a binary spell like rebirth.
IMO they should either leave it as it is or replace it with a defensive cooldown like the one paladins and priests have or a offensive cooldown like what shamans have.
Eli Apr 16th 2010 9:15AM
Uh oh.
John Apr 16th 2010 9:20AM
The long CD is most likely because only 1 class has it, and there's no plan to give it to others. Thus, in the dev's hopes, it takes rebirth out of the picture for balancing encounters and for deciding to "bring the b-res and not the player without one."
Sharinna Apr 16th 2010 9:16AM
30 minutes??? :-( at least bring it back to 20 minutes. I am sad, I am actually one that saves it for an emergency for a tank, healer or high dps. Depending on the situation and if the RL calls out for it. I think it is good to have, that way it is available for you on the next boss pull. What is the point of having these abilities if we cannot use them when needed?
Rob Apr 16th 2010 9:17AM
This is just...stupid. On top of the tree form change too. There goes another huge utility of druids.
Cataclysm: We actually like the mechanics of Vanilla.
muddy Apr 16th 2010 9:17AM
"Also keep in mind that Rebirth is much more useful in today's game where people tend to die from massive damage. In a world where people sometimes die because the healers have run out of mana"
THAT, is the part we should all be worried about.
Get ready for cata, and healing going oom is being termed as a "fun" part of the game.
glyakk Apr 16th 2010 10:17AM
I didnt interperate that comment the same way you did at all. I read it like this:
In todays game where people die because they have taken a large amount of sudden damage, battle res is a very important ability. HOWEVER in cata since everybody will have a larger health pool and damage will be more easily mitigated, sudden deaths such as these will not occure as often, so the leading way a raider will die is if a healer goes OOM.
SOOO, you can draw the conclusion that battle res will not be as necessary unless you simply have a healer who is unable to manage their mana. I for one approve this way of thinking and look forward to druid healing.
Ethan Apr 16th 2010 10:25AM
It's not about "ooming being fun". It's about making the game less of a spiky spam-fest, where a tank can die between the time it takes to start casting a Holy Light on them and the time it finishes. It's not about constantly going out of mana or having to worry about it, it's bringing mana management back into the picture, where you actually have to think "does this person really need to be topped off or can they go for a while with 2000 health missing so I can use that mana for more important things"
muddy Apr 16th 2010 11:01AM
mana management has never left my picture, then again Shaman have the worst mana regen in the game when we are forced to stack haste and get rid of mp5
/shrug
clundgren Apr 16th 2010 4:02PM
Muddy, you need to read more about the planned direction for Cataclysm than just that quote. Taken out of context like that, it sure sounds bad, but IN context the quote makes perfect sense.
I, for one, greatly look forward to fight mechanics where it's not just about spamming heals, dps, etc. I slower fights, healers will be able to make strategic decisions. For that matter, your dps will be more likely to help out with a quick heal, dispel, etc, if the fights aren't so short that they think missing even one offensive cooldown will gimp them.
One thing I really dislike about ICC is the emphasis on timed fights. These have really encouraged an all-or-nothing playstyle (i.e. spamfest). It's not so fun when missing one heal, when you have about 1 second to react, can doom the whole attempt.
Drecin Apr 16th 2010 9:21AM
Please don' take this as QQ because I love my pally...but I always felt that the holiest of holy classes should also have a battle rez...shamans can rez themselves...druids have battlerez...and priestcan still heal after they die...we should also have something similar IMO
Aaron Apr 16th 2010 9:41AM
I just bubble hearth when death is imminent.
I completely agree. Would be cool to bring that utility to a raid. Especially 10 mans. =D
As a bonus, raid chat would no longer have things in it like "WHY IS PALLY IN DAL LOL".
haha
Al Apr 16th 2010 9:42AM
What? Lay on Hands, Blessing of Protection, Argent Defender, and the host of other paladin abilities isn't enough?
Aaron Apr 16th 2010 9:48AM
@Al, I'd be glad to sacrifice any one of those things you just mentioned to bring someone back from the dead in a raid. Just don't take my bubble. =D
Drecin Apr 16th 2010 10:24AM
Yea...we have those cool "oh crap" abilities...but I just feel like that we should be able to do something about a death...maybe even doing something like taking a body and bursting the soul for a aoe heal similar to the DKs aoe damage with a body
clundgren Apr 16th 2010 4:07PM
The good news is, we are rumoured to be getting some form of battle rez. Given that raids could have access to double the battle rezzes, the longer cooldown begins to make more sense.
The bad news: about that bubble...
Kaz Apr 16th 2010 9:22AM
What about the Raging Spirits in the LK encounter that start to gimp clothies before they're targetable? Battle rez is practically a necessity on that part...
I've heard so many RLs and tanks spew some venom over vent because the Raging Spirits pop and kill a couple of dps or healers before the mob is actionable, and thus the tank mashing his taunt on it dose nothing for a couple critical seconds.
I can only imagine how much its going to suck if there is something like that in Cata. With a 30min c/d on Battle Rez...we're going to be sitting around a lot...
(cutaia) Apr 16th 2010 10:05AM
To be fair, the quote already kind of addresses that concern: "Also keep in mind that Rebirth is much more useful in today's game where people tend to die from massive damage."
cyberstraz Apr 16th 2010 9:30AM
New warlock mechanic - Soul Burn+Soulstone
Soulstone works as a battle rez.
Discuss.