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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Invasion of privacy
by Robin Torres 
Apr 16th 2010 at 4:00PM
Captain Obvious says that communication within guilds is a very good thing. But as we've seen before, sometimes too much communication can cause more drama than keeping quiet. It is smart to anticipate problems and make preparations in case they occur. But is thinking the worst of people the same as proactive problem-solving? When thinking ahead to avoid trouble, it is usually a good idea to examine your own motives and see if any prejudices are lurking that color your viewpoint. If it's possible that envy or disapproval are clouding your judgment, it is usually best to keep your mouth closed and your eyes open. I assume the best about this week's letter writer's motives for wanting to prevent drama in his guild. But in this case, motives are irrelevant to the possible drama bomb that would explode from an invasion of privacy.
Dear Drama Mamas: There are two members of my guild, both male, who are in a romantic relationship with each other. Most members of my guild don't know this, and the two men prefer to keep it that way. The problem is, one of them was recently promoted, and on some nights will be distributing loot among a group that includes his boyfriend. I don't think it's appropriate for an officer to be dating a lower-ranking member, and ordinarily I would raise that issue to argue against the promotion. However, I don't want to out the couple -- that would be a serious invasion of privacy. What should I do? -- Morton's Diner
Drama Mama Robin: Morton, I have a few questions which need answers for me to answer your question fully:
- What is your guild's current couple policy? If an officer gets his girlfriend/wife into the guild and she raids, is he not allowed to distribute loot for that raid? Or is there no clearly stated couple policy? If there is no couple policy or if other couples have different guild ranks and are able to play and loot together, there is no reason to make a fuss about this particular couple.
- What is your rank in the guild? Are you an officer whose business it is to set up and enforce policies, or are you just a concerned citizen? If you are an officer, you have more power in this situation than if you are of lesser rank than the officer-boyfriend. Warning: If you are not an officer, any noise you make about this promotion may seem like sour grapes.
- Has the officer behaved inappropriately loot-wise yet? You may be convicting this couple of inappropriate behavior before any takes place. And they may behave completely professionally forever, or just as likely, the non-officer may get less loot in this scenario in order to throw off any suspicion.
Actually, no -- I don't need any of the above questions answered. Of course you shouldn't out these two players. And I must admit that I disagree completely that it is inappropriate for people to date within guilds, no matter what their ranks. Let's talk about the nature of guilds:- A guild is a group of people in a game. It is not a company or the military or a government agency. Though a professionally run guild is most certainly more successful than one that is not, physical world rules established to avoid lawsuits and the like just don't apply.
- A guild is a social club. Guilds are formed by people with common interests and goals. Of course romance will happen, no matter the gender.
- Most guilds have couples in them, even progression guilds. Despite the popular conception that gamers are all lonely basement-dwellers, we know that guilds have been functioning with couples in them for years.
- Friends who aren't dating conspire for loot nastiness all the time. Just because two people aren't romantically involved doesn't mean they will automatically behave better than those who are. The fact is that most loot conspiracies and raid invitation bias occur between people who are just friends.
- Raiding guilds raid. So whatever loot drops that you don't get will drop again in the near future. If your guild isn't raiding regularly or you're not getting the loot you think is appropriate, these are issues that have nothing to do with this couple.
- Loot distributors are under a magnifying glass. If there is unfairness going on, you won't be the only one who notices. Complaining will happen and adjustments will be made, regardless of romantic connections.
Drama Mama Lisa: The nature of the relationship between these two players has nothing to do with loot. A couple in a romantic relationship is no more likely to cheat on loot rules than friends in a platonic relationship. Cheaters cheat -- it has nothing to do with their sexual orientation.
So here we have it: The nature of their relationship is irrelevant. No cheating on loot has occurred. What should you do? Nothing, my friend. Nothing at all.
Drama Buster of the Week: Raid leaders, when you assign a non-traditional role to a specific player as part of your strategy, it is not enough to just tell the player. Announce this assignment before each raid to avoid drama. If your best DPS is assigned to only hit the boss and not touch the adds, for example, make sure everyone knows this. Otherwise your star damage-artist will most likely receive "advice" in whispers. [Thanks, Jagoex, for this tip!]
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Microtonal Apr 16th 2010 10:56PM
Al:
"That's not homophobia. Heterosexuality is 'the default' simply because of procreation works."
This, in a nutshell, is what social scientists and social critics mean when they talk about straight privilege.
There is no default state for human behaviour, genetics, or identity.
Draelan Apr 16th 2010 11:32PM
I must agree with Nick, here... unless the article was edited after your post, but before I came here and began to read it, it already advises Morton not to out the couple, even if loot issues DO arise. I completely agree that outing them would be completely inappropriate. Their relationship is their business, and should only be made public to the guild if the couple decides on their own to tell them.
Unless I'm misinterpreting your post... you're arguing that it's harder for LGBT couples than hetero couples to be accepted, even in WoW, correct? While I certainly won't argue against your point, it seems wholly irrelevant in this case since Morton was advised NOT to out the couple.
BubblePriest Apr 16th 2010 11:51PM
The only problem if the Drama Mamas concentrate on addressing the ramifications of the couple in question being gay is that it narrows the field of people to whom the advice could be relevant and useful.
The solution to the question is the same whether the couple is gay, straight, or a couple of asexual beings from another planet. If people don't want their relationships disclosed, they should have the right. Gay couples do not have "more rights" than straight couples.
The discussion of hetero privilege is an important one, but by bringing it into dialogues where it does not belong, you risk desensitizing people to the issues.
Al Apr 17th 2010 12:08AM
"This, in a nutshell, is what social scientists and social critics mean when they talk about straight privilege.
There is no default state for human behaviour, genetics, or identity."
Notice how I had default as a quote. It's widely seen as that, simply because it leads to procreation. Yes, homosexuality is coded from birth, but it doesn't lead to birth.
Solanum Apr 17th 2010 2:13PM
@op and robin
Spot on.
Robin, while it's noble and honorable to approach the couple with "color blindness" as it were, the ability to do that is a hallmark of straight privilege. In fact, while I'm glad no one else views them as a "gay" couple, I bet they spend most days of their lives dealing continuously with the fact that they are a gay couple.
I would suggest googling a bit about a color blind racism to see how "I don't see color/I don't see sexuality" actually functions.
@ Lisa The nature of their relationship isn't quite irrelevant. If it were a man and a woman, you could probably bet that any fear of them being outed as a straight couple wouldn't include threats/insults based entirely on their sexual orientation. No one will straight bash them. No one will try to save them from being in love with who they are in love with. That happens to gay couples. It happens a LOT. It is an entirely relevant and realistic issue that they have to deal with. You cannot treat a gay relationship like it's nothing but a straight relationship with two boys in it because it is not.
Spot on with not outing them, though. Outing is a personal decision. Being outed by someone else is a horrible, horrible feeling.
mawk Apr 17th 2010 3:17PM
I still don't understand how any of this would affect the given advice. It doesn't strike me as a instance of "orientation blindness" that the Mamas didn't touch specifically on the couple's relationship -- just that in this situation, the nature of the relationship doesn't seem to have significant ramifications as far as proper conduct goes. If the article has erred by lack of detail, what do you think is missing? It's true that in any given community, a homosexual couple might face bigotry if discovered, but it might not be necessary to point this out in the article itself, especially given how little we know about the guild's dynamics.
Yeah, it's naive to simply ignore sexual, religious, or racial identities, but I really doubt that's what's happening here; it just wasn't touched on in great detail because it doesn't really affect the advice the Mamas had to give. It's roughly the same reason we haven't touched on the couple's ethnicities or religious affiliations.
Sinthar Apr 19th 2010 5:54AM
As someone who has no issues with gays lesbians or hetros in any form, im sorry but your post comes over as YOUR the one who has the issue, not others. You say your not asking for special treatment, yet you expect people to do more than they would in the case of a hetro relationship. How is that NOT expecting special treatment?
I have known 15 gay guys (that i know about) and more lesbians (and bi's), and 5 who were like yourself who claimed things were not equal, were the ones that had the most problems. The 10 that didnt give 2 hoots about who knew, had no problems. Homophobic behavour is not condoned in most societies atm (although in different cultures there are elements ofc) however too many non hetero's claim homophobic behavour, lessening the effect when someone who DOES suffer from that behavour. So have you any evidence from this case that says theres homophobic behavoiur going on? No. So why bring it up.
As to some of your other points (which are considered mostly very cafefully and true) but this one stood out for me :-
"And as an openly queer person, I can tell you that there are few things in life more depressing than watching a friend that was totally cool with you when they thought you were straight completely freak the hell out when they find out you're not"
Have you considered the contradiction in this statement - if you are openly gay - and well done for that - why did you lie - even if it was only by implication - and let him believe you were straight until you were Friends? Have you considered that fact you let him believe you were straight for some time, before telling him the truth, would consistute a betrayal of trust? And no i wont fall for the 'there wasnt a right moment' bullshit either - its YOUR fear thats causing that issue - not their 'homophobia'
Lastly the 'default setting'??? I have multiple problems with that! :-
humans are not machines - we dont HAVE default 'settings'
Hetero is the biological normal - based of procreation
you state the 'conditioning' colours our behavour - conditioning??? Im sorry you think that hetero behavour is 'conditioned', but i assure you it happens quite naturally and normally for us hetero's
If society as a whole was homophobic - well ive seen what happens in a homophobic event - and theres far more gays alive that to account for that. Also please note your use of homophobic - you do know that phobic means fear right? Good - and the typical response to fear is fight or flight correct? Still with me - cool. So if 20 blokes are homophobic - in a mob - the typical response would be to fight - with my reasoning so far? I hope so - so if ALL of a society was phobic - do you really think that you would be protected from the majority?
TL;DR version - Kylenne - you show your OWN prejustices by your posts
Rob Apr 16th 2010 4:34PM
Totally agree w/ the drama mamas here. I don't care about your relationships, I don't care if you are LGBT, its not my concern. As a GL my concern is drama, and if there is none, don't make it. If there is, then we'll deal with it.
Moorit Apr 16th 2010 4:36PM
Wow. "I don't think it's appropriate for an officer to be dating a lower-ranking member, and ordinarily I would raise that issue to argue against the promotion."
Only single people can be officers in this guy's guild? Or players whose partners don't play?
This concept is pretty mind-boggling to me. Then again, my guild consists of a bunch of married couples.
I have to wonder if this is homophobia disguised as genuine concern for the guild. People think homosexuals must be capable of all kinds of deviant behavior, including ninja looting!
mmetucker Apr 16th 2010 5:48PM
"People think homosexuals must be capable of all kinds of deviant behavior, including ninja looting!"
Um...that's because they are. Just like EVERYONE ELSE.
The orientation of the players is totally irrelevant to the situation as we've been presented it. What a weird thing to say.
Dekota Apr 16th 2010 4:40PM
My husband and I have been in the same guild for a few years now. At one time I was an officer then stepped down, then later on he was promoted to officer. We have NEVER showed favoritism for loot Who ever wins the roll OR whoever needs the item more gets it. There have been many times when I was handing out loot and my husband lost the roll. it's a "aw i'm sorry babe :(" and the winner gets the loot. I can't imagine anyone giving out loot to their girl/boyfriends when they lost the roll on it. I wouldn't stand for that.
I really think people should avoid having romantic relationships with people in the same guild. If it doesn't turn out well it causes drama and no one likes guild drama.
raspybunk Apr 16th 2010 4:43PM
If it's ever a problem of who likes who romantically or as a great pal; your loot system can't be that amazing. It should be mechanically sound so that it's outcome can't be questioned so much.
Srslyyeswai Apr 16th 2010 7:04PM
Bingo. This is the first thing that came to mind. I'm the GM of my raiding guild and my girlfriend was a raider. There was never an issue regarding loot, though some people showed concern that drama might arise. In the end, she was promoted to officer and all was good, especially because we use EPGP as a loot system. I can't favor one person over another because ultimately the members are in control of their loot destiny.
I'm not sure that the person that wrote in had homophobic intentions in mind, but I do think that the sexual orientation of the dudes is irrelevant... he shouldn't out them under any circumstances and tbh the guy should just get on with his guild life.
Avan Apr 16th 2010 4:50PM
I get the vibe that the Drama Mamas think Morton is a homophobe. I don't think that's the case here. What it sounds like Morton's concern is that the recently promoted officer might be biased in loot distribution, not because of the couples' orientation, but because it's simply a couple. To expand on that, he doesn't seem to know how to bring up his concerns with other officers without "outing" the couple in the process, as the couple has made clear they don't want to happen.
This is the solution, as provided by Robin:
"Use the word 'friend' and imply nothing more."
Today's column could have been a single paragraph based off that sentence, without any sort of undertone.
clundgren Apr 16th 2010 5:18PM
I do think Morton came off as sort of a homophobe. Why is the gender of the couple even brought up? Objecting to an officer dating a non-officer in a video game guild? That's ridiculous. I can't read minds, but I don't think that's the real issue for this person.
Quill2006 Apr 16th 2010 5:36PM
I disagree that Morton came off as a homophobe; it sounds like he may simply be thinking "Well, normally if people are dating, everyone knows and can keep an eye on them if someone is distributing loot unfairly. I'm the only one who knows these two people are dating, and if something happened where I thought one of them was favoring his significant other, I wouldn't know what to do."
Having said that, the suggestion that people of different ranks can't be dating is a bit ridiculous. There are quite a few serious relationships in my guild, and even more friendships and a few family members. No matter what you do, trustworthy people behave in a trustworthy way; if someone is the type to distribute loot unfairly, they'll do it for themselves or their friends too.
Rhabella Apr 16th 2010 5:57PM
@Quill2006,
Thank you! I think the thing many of the commenters are failing to realize the writer of the letter is obviously a decent enough person that the couple was comfortable confiding in him. Back before I was completely out, I was very guarded about who I told and who I didn't tell.
If I decided to tell someone I was gay, then I knew I could trust them. This issue is about maintaining trust and distributing loot fairly, a dilemma which could have as easily been a straight couple who only told a few guildies they were dating in confidence.
I NEVER thought the writer of the letter was a homophobe.
Irem Apr 16th 2010 6:12PM
I think maybe the reason they were extra-careful to reinforce acceptance in this is that his whole idea on officers not dating lower ranking members is really weird, and the entire dilemma would not exist if he didn't have an unfounded impression of the draconian nature of guild roles. Around half of the comments on this article are to the effect of "WTF?" about that, and I admit that my first uncharitable thought, as a paranoid gay person, was "He's looking for a reason to justify outing them and is hoping that Lisa and Robin will validate him by telling him that that's a reasonable thing to be concerned about."
I don't actually believe that, but I've seen people come up with weirder mental gymnastics to remove the target of their bigotry from their social sphere while simultaneously convincing themselves that they didn't do exactly that.
vinniedcleaner Apr 16th 2010 6:55PM
I think that Morton explaining the fact that it is a same-sex couple is relevent because if neither of them are known to follow an alternative lifestyle, then it is less likely for any red flags to be raised in the case of impropriety due to the relationship.
Sinthar Apr 19th 2010 5:59AM
If depends on the readers state of mind as to how the OP comment comes across. Personally i think he wanted to raise it as an issue - not because he was a homophobe - but because he didnt want to reveal their sexuality to others withing the guild. For him to have been told he would have to have been trusted by one of the people in the relationship, although he could have found out from RL sources. I think (although it is not stated) that he was worried that inappropriate loot behavour could come about BECAUSE it wasnt an openly stated relationship (not openly stated for obvious fears - and its their choice if they want to conceal it - i dont reveal my sexual history in guild - why should they?). It was presented to us as they were gay - so we knew why he was so reluctant to reveal the relationship in guild - even if it was only to a few officers and the RL/GM.
Personally i think its a real shame if people throw away friendships in game based on someones sexuality, who they would probably never meet - let alone have sex with. Personally i dont care what oriface interests you more, what colour your skin is, what religion you are, or what your age is (as long as its over 18 for our guild chat - which tends to be quite blue (yes with a gay guy being the most vocal - and amusing)). Just as long as you DONT stand in fire and have reasonable connection etc. When you were 6 and playing at school - did it matter if the other people were going to be gay or straight? No and it doesnt matter NOW.
As to officers not dating lower ranked people in guild??? This isnt the army or Star Trek!!! LOL.