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4-19-2010 @ 9:08AM
No, the guy who rolled was a dick. Guildies are supposed to look out for one another.
4-19-2010 @ 9:18AM
And how do you know the guy who rolled didn't need/want it just as much? As was said in the article, just because he wasn't constantly drooling over it doesn't mean its not an upgrade for him. The guy who cried about losing is in the wrong guild if he wants a loot system that isn't based entirely on RNG.
4-19-2010 @ 9:19AM
No, the guy that lost the roll and /gquit was the dick. Loot drops, everyone that helped and could use it should have an equal chance to get it. Just because one person is more vocal about being a greedy loot whore does not give them more claim.
4-19-2010 @ 9:22AM
I wonder who was looking out for the guy who rolled and won? I wonder what made the guy who /gquit over one piece of loot so much more special than the item winner? We have had many people move on from our guild for various reasons... and many later ask to come back. I will generally give, even people who left under a circumstance that we didn't care for, a second chance (depending on how bad), but if someone dramaquit over loot, I doubt I would extend a re-invite. Especially if it caused that much problem.
They were all guildies, even the guy who rolled. So which guildies should we look out for more, the one with the great loot lust? The more drool? Their need for the gear was the same. Honestly, if you can't trust a guild to follow their loot rules it is a dangerous place to raid.
4-19-2010 @ 9:24AM
Personally, I can't stand people who've memorised the loot table and whine about how they need such and such item before every boss. Do they think that there's nobody else in the raid who wants the same thing? It's behaviour I'd expect in a PuG, not from a guildie.
4-19-2010 @ 9:25AM
Yeah perhaps, and the guy who wanted the loot looked out for himself and ran off crying like a little baby who didn't get his own way. All's fair in love and war.
4-19-2010 @ 9:29AM
Suppose you and I are in a raid, in the same guild, and we are both rolling DPS pallies. A tier piece drops that is an upgrade for both of us. You over the months have drooled and drooled and drooled over this tier piece and it drops. So what you are saying is that because you were more vocal about it you have a right to it when it can help each of us the same and still help the raid.Is that how people in your guild "look out" for one another by giving loot to the one who vocalizes about it more no matter what the loot rules are. How selfish.
4-19-2010 @ 9:44AM
No. they were both dicks.The best way to deal with loot is to let other people have it.I've always passed loot to people who needed it most or wanted it more(Unless I thought they didnt deserve it). Sure I wanted some things that ended up going to other players and Im sure other players lost items that they really wanted but went to me but, in the end, if you worry more about having fun with a group you like and less about who gets what drop, your raids will be a lot more fun and with less drama. Not to mention that after a few weeks it will drop again and it'll go to you.
4-19-2010 @ 9:45AM
Simply being LOUDER about what items you want does not entitle you to an item more than someone who doesn't hassle the raid every time their gear doesn't drop.
4-19-2010 @ 9:48AM
I have JUST begun leading casual raids with my casual guild. We have to pick up PuGs almost every night. The loot rules are the same for everyone, in the lower tier roflstomp content like OS and Naxx roll on upgrades, current spec over offspec. Higher tier raids one piece of loot for everyone's main spec, one piece for everyone's off spec, resetting when everyone in that type of gear (dps plate or w/e) gets a drop.Obviously its very nice when somone passes on an item to let somone else have it but its certianly not required. Yea it sucks to see the loot you wanted go to somone else but if you can't handle it maybe you are better off playing Dragon Age........
4-19-2010 @ 10:22AM
I disagree with the article and agree with the person who posted and got downranked ... but I'll try to at least justify it instead of making an inflammatory comment.The impression I got from reading the letter was that the guy who lost out on the loot hadn't gotten anything in a long time. The impression of him was that this guy was a 100% supporter, always had his ducks in a row, probably has passed on slight upgrades in the hope that other people would be considerate when the real upgrade came along.It finally did, and someone else got it. If this guy who lost the roll had PASSED on loot for the guy who won ... the /gquit would not only be justified, it would be the only proper thing to do.Consider for yourself a moment before you downrank my comment. If you had your ducks in a row, always showed up, always did your best, and often passed on loot that was only a slight upgrade, and then after weeks of waiting the really big upgrade dropped, and the guy who benefited from all your passes also took the big upgrade away from you ... you would be ok with that?This whole story is why /roll loot systems are terrible. To the person who wrote the letter ... simple solution. Go with some form of Suicide Kings. Everyone rolls once, and that establishes the loot order forever. An item drops, person at the top of the list can take (and go to the bottom) or pass to the next person, and so on and so forth. In that situation, the loot is very evenly distributed ... people who don't go to a raid just stay in their position and don't lose out ... and if someone really wants a certain item, they will stay at the top o the list until they get it.
4-19-2010 @ 10:38AM
@Ulurjah No where in the letter does it imply that the guy who wanted the loot ever passed anything to the guy who won (or anyone else for that matter.) You are probably giving him too much credit. We can't assume he was some sort of saint from the information given; we just don't know.
4-19-2010 @ 10:39AM
"The impression of him was that this guy was a 100% supporter, always had his ducks in a row, probably has passed on slight upgrades in the hope that other people would be considerate when the real upgrade came along."He could very well have done that, but you must understand that he is only screwing himself with this line of behavior. Even in a SK setup, the only way it really makes logical sense to not be let down on loot is to NEVER pass on loot. When you pass on loot, you're only adding some emo frustration onto yourself; no one else can feel the pain you inflict on yourself (which honestly makes no sense IMO). These systems are created to average/mete out fairly; he is creating for himself a situation where the system doesn't work for him!RNG can be a bitch sometimes, but it's pretty fair, too. The imposed limit of one MS drop might make you think long and hard on upgrade rolls, but this guy did it to himself. Completely self-inflicted, and completely unjustified ragequit too.
4-19-2010 @ 11:52AM
That applies to ALL guildies. Including the guy who was "wronged". I read this story like this:Member Lootie wan this bow of Deathwhisper sooooo badly, that he frequently spams /g with this info. He's a loot obsessed whiner. Member Silent wants his item too, but doesn't say it, because he feels everyonedeservs a fair shot at whatever drops.No officer declared a loot reservation, and nothing says that Lootie deserves it over Silent except Looties volume level.Silent wins the roll. But lootie drums up support crying foul a how unfair it is that he never gets that item. Pretty self centered.Screw him.
4-19-2010 @ 12:12PM
You're forgetting that the guy who won was ALSO a guild member. Who was looking out for him?...that is why you fail!
4-19-2010 @ 2:03PM
Not enough information to establish an opinion. Was it BiS for one of them? Did one person have better attendance? Were both guildees? The GM wasn't in the raid that is a red flag also. You may have a black/white "system" but not being a dick is an unsaid rule in every loot system. You others in this post that have "gotten burned" by this before should try showing up every single raid instance to gear out the people that shuffle in and out and have no commitment on a weekly basis - only to have the one item you need ninjad. Then you'll see what "burned" is - burned out.IMO /roll is fail loot system that rewards randomness instead of what is most important - guild progression and keeping the best people interested and doing their job.
4-19-2010 @ 7:44PM
This is why roll systems fail. Hard.I pug ToC25 every week for Deaths Choice. I cant reserve the item because no-one on my server will join a pug with an item resevered, so i'm forced to roll.I've done the instance well over 10 times. I've seen it drop 5 times.Every single person i lost it to did less dps than me. Sometimes maybe only a little less, but i have lost a Deaths Choice to a warrior doing 4k dps... on Twin Val'kyr 25 man.It's gotten to a stage where i'm basically making a pug to ninja it. I'm sick of losing the bloody thing to scrubs who aren't pulling as much weight as i am. This is the main flaw of the roll system. It's luck, nothing else is considered.I lead a pug to Marrowgar 25 some times ago for the weekly, we managed to get him down and the caster dps ring drops. Rolls go and the top two stand out like a sore thumb to me, second highest has done 7-8k dps and the highest did 2.4k. Still peeved at losing items to shit players not doing there job right, i gave it to the second highest roller.I didn't know the guy, i dolled out loot to others in the raid who rolled highest as they'd all performed within' reason. But by doing this the guys guild FLIPPED OUT. They went nuts and labelled me a ninja. Because i wouldn't give a shit player a piece of loot he really didn't deserve.The winner summed the situation up to in the best words i've heard. "I could have done my rotation and gotten that dps, or i could have just spammed Ice Lance. Either way, i had the same chance of winning no matter what i did in the fight with a roll system"Of course, with me as a raid leader that's not entirely true.
4-19-2010 @ 10:17PM
The problem here is one of perception.The guy who wanted the gear talked about it all the time, everyone knew he wanted it, it dropped, everyone (nearly so, at least) was congratulating him on it... then he didn't wind up getting it.'Since pretty much the entire guild knew he wanted it, and congratulated him on it dropping, he thought it was his, but then he lost the roll. From his view, he already had it, then it was 'taken'.The other person who rolled and won obviously wanted it too, since they rolled. They won, and kept it, but now are demonized for having followed the rules... likely making them defensive over it.I've been on the losing end before, I've been on the winning end. I can understand both. What probably should have happened is that the person who lost the roll should have asked the person who won, nicely, if they would pass the piece of gear over since the roll's loser wanted it so much. They could have offered any number of additional guarantees or promises on passes in the winner's favor in the future... or tangible things like gold or orbs, but the roll's winner was the person who got to decide who the item went to.If it was me in that situation, I definitely wouldn't have been happy, I'm sure. I likely would not have raided with that person again for a good long time. I likely would have excused myself from the raid, logged out, and not sign up for a raid for at least a few weeks. If nothing else, the gear was obviously too important, so a break from it would have been healthy. The way that we're whipping through tiers of gear here, a break of a month or two is enough to skip a partial tier and everyone will reset anyway and be badge grinding again. I don't think running the guild into the dirt is an answer though in any case.
4-20-2010 @ 6:26AM
"Just because someone has been drooling over an item for weeks does not entitle them to receive that item over anyone else." "And how do you know the guy who rolled didn't need/want it just as much? As was said in the article, just because he wasn't constantly drooling over it doesn't mean its not an upgrade for him. "Exactly. Sheer volume does not entitle you to a drop. If it did, we would have everyone constantly spamming their heart's desire to everyone in range. I find it quite distasteful as well when someone does this constantly. It may be because they want it so much that they can't control themselves, but it seems to me as if they were trying to establish ownership of it beforehand and/ or trying to guilt trip anyone else who might need it into passing to them instead (or look like a big meanyhead). Loot distribution was already based on /roll. If the letter writer wanted it to be based on sentiment/ personal opinion, then he should have set up a crooked loot council.
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