Lichborne: Tweaking your frost DPS talent build

Last week, we took a look at frost DPS. At that time, I posted a basic DPS build for beginning frost DPSers to provide a good balance of DPS and utility. As I mentioned back then, though, the basic frost DPS build is pretty nice in that it does allow a bit of flexibility in your build; that is, there are a few places where you can swap around points a bit depending on your gear level and personal needs. We'll also take a quick look at optimizing sigil usage, which should come in handy for blood and unholy DPS as well. But first, let's take a look at those frost talents.
- Subversion Subversion is a cornerstone of many a DPS build, thanks to the threat reduction. While threat reduction seems a bit laughable in the era of quick-and-frantic AoE DPS runs where it seems like most tanks can keep aggro by spamming a few buttons, it can come in handy, especially at later gear levels where DPS attack power starts to drastically outpace a tank's ability to keep aggro. That said, Subversion is not great for frost DPS. We generally get enough crit power from Killing Machine and gear. If you don't need the threat reduction, you should take the points out of it.
- Blood-Caked Blade While this is the easiest place to remove points if you want to bolster Black Ice or Subversion, it's also the best place to put points back into if you want more DPS. Frost DPS does a whole lot of damage via weapon strikes, and a chance to do more damage on each strike is nothing to sneeze at. If you have no threat issues, just take those points out of Subversion and put them here. It's going to be the best place to spend them if you want more DPS.
- Killing Machine Killing Machine itself is awesome. A free crit every so often is extra DPS in the bank. That said, there is too much of a good thing. If you don't use the Killing Machine buff, that's wasted talent points. If you have so much critical strike rating that many of your hits are critical strikes anyway, you may be wasting talent points. As a general rule of thumb, it's probably safe to take one point out of Killing Machine some time after you reach 30-40% critical strike chance, but your mileage may vary. When you remove that point, it can easily go into either Black Ice or Subversion.
- Chill of the Grave This talent provides extra runic power, which is key for maximizing your DPS. Frost Strike is a very significant part of frost DPS, and you need the runic power to churn out as many of them as possible once your runes are on cooldown and when you have a KM proc to spend. Again, though, you can have too much of a good thing. If your runic power is consistently sitting at high levels instead of being spent on Frost Strikes, you're essentially wasting your Chill of the Grave talent points. This can happen if you're consistently getting healed by a restoration druid or discipline priest, or if you're consistently getting lots of runic power from using Anti-Magic Shell. Keep an eye on your rotation, and if you find you're flush with runic power, you can consider taking a point or two from this talent and apply it to one of the others on this list.
- Black Ice Black Ice is a pretty easy skill to leave half-full if you'd rather max Subversion or Blood-Caked Blade, but it's still relatively valuable. You will be doing a pretty decent amount of frost and shadow damage, especially if you're AoEing. If you don't need the extra points from Killing Machine or Chill of the Grave anywhere else, put them in Black Ice.
Sigil choice
We didn't go into sigil choice too in depth last time, but there were a few questions people had, so it's probably a good idea to explain it somewhat more in depth. While in the past Sigil of Awareness and Sigil of the Vengeful Heart provided enough of a base damage boost to certain weapon strikes to make them worthwhile in the past, testing for Patch 3.3.3 thus far has indicated you're best off now sticking with the straight strength boosts, that is, either Sigil of the Hanged Man or Sigil of Virulence.
Sigil of the Hanged Man is the clear winner in the straight-up buff race, all things being equal, providing 219 strength when fully stacked. If you have a solid rotation that allows you to keep hitting Obliterate consistently and don't have to move around much, this sigil is the one you want to have.
That said, it's not common that a boss is just going to let you sit around and spank it, especially at raid level content. That's where it may become worth it to stick with the Sigil of Virulence. Since the sigil only requires one hit to reach full power and keeps the buff up for 20 seconds, it's much more forgiving than the Sigil of the Hanged Man. You can move around a bit more or flub your rotation a bit without having the buff fall, and if it does fall, you'll get back to full strength almost instantly. Another advantage is that the Sigil of Virulence will only set you back a few Emblems of Triumph, whereas the Sigil of the Hanged Man will cost you Emblems of Frost. Therefore, you may find it worthwhile to keep using the Sigil of Virulence while you spend your frost emblems on tier 10 armor instead.
In short, feel free to stick with the Sigil of Virulence for cheapness and ease of use. Once you've got a few extra Emblems of Frost to spend, however, you can squeeze out a bit more DPS by buying a Sigil of the Hanged Man for use in more stationary battles.
Filed under: Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dookieshed Apr 20th 2010 6:19PM
This is a great talent guide and I follow it's advice 100%, but there's one obstacle us frost DKs just can't get around, and that's the itemization currently available. It just irks me to no end. Could they please just throw us some haste/hit plate for the love of pete? The scaling from haste while dual-wielding, and the large amount of hit we need for spells and offhand melee hits scales so much better with our dps than all this ArP/crit bologna (which is AMAZING for blood). I really hope we get some gear-love ruby sanctum.
Nazgûl Apr 20th 2010 6:30PM
Ugh. I'm a Blood Death Knight at heart, always will be, and I don't sympathize at all. Almost every piece that has dropped for me is Haste or Hit filled. I need neither.
That's not to say there aren't ArP/Crit items out there - for there are, and I drool over them - but rather that it really depends on your luck with drops. Ours is apparently bad, because we get the opposite of what we need.
mortis2600 Apr 20th 2010 7:28PM
Haste/hit gear was last content patch. In 3.3.3 we get 45% weapon haste self buffed which makes a large part of our dmg as white hits with obliterates. This makes ArP a much higher value than haste currently. Additionally, High ArP builds are seeing amazing numbers with Glyph of Disease.
Arkhill Apr 21st 2010 3:01PM
Actually Dookie, your post is almost 100% wrong. Our two highest damage abilities (Obliterate and white hits) scale fully with ArPen, making it our best stat next to strength.
Haste and Crit are good stats yes, but nothing to purposefully stack. We only need 5% hit to reach the specials cap, the dual wield white hit cap is far too high to stack towards, and with 250 hit I rarely have enough misses to worry about.
Icecrown is our gear love. Currently all three specs gear the same, with Blood and very high level Frost gemming Arpen.
BritishBulldog Apr 20th 2010 6:19PM
'you also notice that you pretty never pull aggro'...
Grammar nazis incoming! Also yay for irony if I haven't correctly typed the plural of nazi.
Great post though! This is what makes frost interesting to me, the fact that your spec isn't just an exact copy off ej, you actually have to think about it.
Lovelove
BadPatrol Apr 20th 2010 6:35PM
Hit and Haste is NOT the ideal stats on a good piece for frost, 65% of frosts damage is physical, and at a certain point, for blood as well as unholy, armor pen surpasses even strength in value once you get enough of it. Granted you'll do less AoE DMG, but to say that armor pen and crit is bad is just stupid. Not to mention that hit becomes much worse than all other dps stats once you attain the spell hit cap and haste's value is less than that of armor pen and while I'm not certain, I believe that it's tied with crit for the most part until you get enough of it that it begins to suffer from diminishing returns.
BadPatrol Apr 20th 2010 6:39PM
Correcting some errors, that unholy in the 2nd line was supposed to be frost, and there are grammar errors, please bare with my poor typing skills.
Shane Apr 20th 2010 6:40PM
Great post, certainly corrects my mistakes I made in a comment on the previous one! :D
Firedcylinder Apr 20th 2010 7:01PM
Could we get a post about how to use Unbreakable Armor sometime soon? 15% strength sounds tasty, but I can never get the blood tap->UA timing right, and I keep using a frost rune anyway, and my dps takes a dive because of it. I currently don't have it specced but will absolutely respec into it if I can get a decent guide on how to use it.
atomicstrawberry Apr 20th 2010 8:29PM
Macro it with Blood Tap (they have the same cooldown and are both off the GCD). You need to hit it right after you consume your death runes with an obliterate and convert them back to blood runes. It also needs to be when you have no frost runes up, otherwise UA will consume a frost rather than the death you created with blood tap. The quicker you do it after hitting that obliterate the better. You also want to make sure your macro has '/cancelaura blood tap' because you don't want that blood rune staying a death rune, it will break your rotation.
So if you have an opening rotation that's like this:
IT-PS-OB-BS-Pest-FS-FS-OB-OB-FS-OB, *hit macro here*
Your macro should look something like:
/cast Blood Tap
/cast Unbreakable Armor
/cancelaura Blood Tap
I like to also pop a Potion of Speed, and then summon a ghoul at that point since he'll inherit your crazy haste rating and 20% strength buff from UA.
Derrith Apr 20th 2010 8:30PM
This is normally what I do in order to get an Unbreakable armor in my rotation.
IT->PS->HS->HS->OB
OB->OB->OB->Blood Tap->UA-> Macro that cancels Blood Tap Aura
This way, on your next rotation, which will reapply your diseases, you'll have the extra strength for a bit more damage on those, as well as more damage on top of your OB.
Not to mention that by this time, most of your stuff is procced, and your damage increases by quite a bit.
Derrith Apr 20th 2010 8:31PM
Wow, was a little late to the party I guess, looks like someone else responded just before me!
Basically the same ideas here though.
gearhead Apr 20th 2010 8:33PM
T-PS-OB-BS-BT-UA-Pest-ERW-OB-OB-OB-rune dump(FS)
I typically will macro a Potion of Speed to my ERW and then cast a ghoul to really maximise the haste and strength buffs
FiredCylinder Apr 21st 2010 12:47AM
Thanks for the help guys, I'll have to give it another shot.
noobdeluxe Apr 20th 2010 7:54PM
Excellent follow-up article on your previous one, even answering my sigil question!
Thanks and keep those colums coming
gearhead Apr 20th 2010 8:25PM
IT-PS-OB-BS-BT-UA-Pest-ERW-OB-OB-OB
gearhead Apr 20th 2010 8:26PM
I meant to post this as a response to Firedcylinder. This is the rotation I use on a boss battle to get the effects of UA, after the ob's I dump all my rp in FS's.
pyro_818 Apr 20th 2010 9:03PM
@Firedcylinder, try this macro:
#showtooltip Unbreakable Armour
/cast Blood Tap
/cast Unbreakable Armour
As BT (and UBA, I believe?) is off the GCD, that'll cast Tap and instantly cast UBA as well; however if you have a Frost Rune available, it'll prioritise that for use, so be wary.
Sanaleis Apr 20th 2010 10:57PM
Sigil-wise, Sigil of Awareness from Naxx is currently the item of choice for Frost dps. The increase to Oblit damage overcomes the +str from either of the "current" pieces.
Bendaid Apr 21st 2010 10:08AM
Im curious where your getting your numbers from? From what I have read/tried out it seems thats only the case with really heavily ARP stacking gear sets. I could be wrong but in my amateurish testing Hanged man and Virulence seem to be doing much better, for tank and spank fights and high movement fights respectively.