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4-20-2010 @ 7:14PM
"Rogues are now confirmed to be facing the loss of the stun lock in return for more innate survivability in Cataclysm. The ultimate irony of class homogenization may be, not that we need to become more like rogues, but that rogues are becoming more like us."Because breaking the mechanics of rogues in PvP has a lot to do with rogue survivability in PvE? Not sure I understand the thinking behind the statement. Do rogues stunlock a lot in raids? Will being able to stun less in raids lead to more survivability? OR: In this article, we have passive-aggressive behavior, wherein people are quietly happy that the least popular class over-all in WoW gets nerfed? Which is, of course, essentially what we're talking about. If, that is, we read between the lines of the original blue post. IMO: too early to know what is going to happen in Cataclysm. Though that won't stop anyone from pontificating about it every day for the next 7 months.
4-20-2010 @ 7:32PM
I'm not sure what you read, but the survivability she's talking about (and the original blue post was talking about too) is PvP survivability. It doesn't have a whole hell of a lot to do with raids, but more to do with the fact that a rogue is screwed unless they stunlock or have a CD to blow. Try to think a little before digging into (at least in my opinion) one of the best writers on this site.
4-20-2010 @ 7:36PM
1) "Because breaking the mechanics of rogues in PvP has a lot to do with rogue survivability in PvE?" If you look at the proceeding 3 paragraphs you will see that she had clearly moved away from all talk of PvE and about the feral's (lack of) abilities in PvP (as compared to the rogues and warriors we are based off of). Don't know where you got the PvE part from.2) "In this article, we have passive-aggressive behavior, wherein people are quietly happy that the least popular class over-all in WoW gets nerfed"IMO I think it's too early to know that changing the Rogue paradigm away from sapping and stunlocking to success will be considered a "nerf."
4-20-2010 @ 8:06PM
Point me to exactly where it is "confirmed" rogues are losing stunlock.Exact sentence, exact blue post. CONFIRMATION. Not reading between the lines.Sigh. This is why I quit visiting this site. A complete inability by any fanboy here to reason or deduce why something might not be exactly right with the game.Go back to checking your gearscores in Dalaran people, nothing to see here.
4-20-2010 @ 8:34PM
Cheap shot is on the DR with all the other stuns come Cata. Thus Dead stun locks.
4-20-2010 @ 9:53PM
Alright, I'll play your game, even though Animalis already has it in a nutshellhttp://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24262386514&sid=1Bashiok (literally the FIRST post under "Changes to Abilities and Mechanics"):"In PvP, we want to reduce the rogue's dependency on binary cooldowns and "stun-locks," and give them more passive survivability in return. One major change is that we'll put Cheap Shot on the same diminishing return as other stuns. The increase to Armor and Stamina on cloth, leather, and mail gear will help with this goal as well. Now, I don't know about you, but reducing "the rogue's dependency on binary cooldowns and STUN-LOCKS," seems pretty specific to me. If not, putting "Cheap Shot on the same diminishing return as other stuns" seems to get the point across that they don't want rogues to be able to chain stun people into death.Now I'm all for not QQing until we have more info, but all I see here is you (Philip) reading WAY between the lines in Allison's post. Didn't you just ask us to stop that?
4-20-2010 @ 10:23PM
@ PhilipGuruda is accurate about the article's intent, so I won't address that here.As for your question, you'll find a pretty straightforward confirmation of Blizzard's plan to reduce the rogue's dependence on stunlocks here: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/24401900017/gc-5-months-ago-100-cloak-is-i-win/ Ghostcrawler's also mentioned it previously, but gave a lot more detail on it in the link above.
4-20-2010 @ 11:50PM
Rogues aren't chain stunning good players to death.Let me repeat: good players.Kidney shot is already on the DR. I suppose you all already knew this, but cleverly failed to mention it. If rogues were so good at chain stunning people to death, then rogue/rogue or rogue/rogue/rogue or rogue/rogue/rogue/rogue/rogue would be all the rage.No one in even deadly gear is dying to a rogue in one stun. Unless they have 10k health, or decided to pvp in raid gear, which is still their fault.My original comment about the passive/aggressive glee that some of these people have about the pvp nerfs, stand. Also, if it's too early for me to call it a nerf, its too early to call the upcoming changes a success. Can't have it both ways. Not like it makes any difference. This site is gonna continue to regurgitate other site's news, and people here will continue to rate down anyone who doesn't kiss the ass of the author who writes the column, or anyone who doesn't kiss the ring of the almighty Blizzard. For open-minded discussion about potential changes, and whether they're good or bad, you'll have to visit a different site, with grownups doing the moderating.
4-21-2010 @ 12:17AM
@Philip's latest comment1) By the stance you take and the way you talk, I'm going to presume you play a rogue. As I do not play a rogue, and have relatively little experience fighting them in PvP (I've been dabbling the last 2 months or so, other than that last time I PvP'd was about a year ago), please explain to me what it is rogues currently do when they are not either A)Stunning me and trying to do as much damage before I come out of stun or B)Using cooldowns to reset the fight and get back to step A. It seems to me that is how a rogue is played, and when they don't execute those steps skilfully I can easily manage to kill them as they are quite squishy.2) You still hold onto this idea that there are "PvP nerfs." Please quote from your reputable sites the beta patch notes that go from beyond talk about philosophy and general ideas about class direction and into specific empirical evidence that said philosophy and general ideas are a nerf. I suppose I would even accept anecdotal evidence from someone with an Arena title or some similar qualification stating that they are unsatisfied with the changes Blizzard has implemented.3) If you really feel that way about this site, may I point you to that nice inviting address bar at the top of [insert name of browser] and suggest that you quickly return to your havens of open minded discussion before the overseer forcing you to be on Wow.com comes back from his bathroom break.
4-21-2010 @ 7:52AM
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
4-21-2010 @ 11:31AM
"before the overseer forcing you to be on Wow.com comes back from his bathroom break"thats funny
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