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4-20-2010 @ 7:35PM
@"Cat damage is in a good place, druids are happy that it's not a "faceroll" spec, and I think Blizzard is happy with that as well. PvE-wise, I don't think we have a lot to worry about." I've always found this a bit unfair--maybe I've not seen it from the super-endgame levels, but... Cat DPS, which requires mastery of a complex rotation to obtain said high DPS, doesn't suffer as much from the dreaded hybrid tax. Yeah, you can't self-heal as well in kitty, but you get a lot of tools due to shifting into tank form. Maybe I need to play cat more to "get it", but I'm assuming that there are addons that lets you know what buttons to push when -- thus making life simplier and taking the edge off of a complex "if X then Y" rotation. (My druid has only /ever/ been Resto -- RAF to 60 then leveled him through LFG as a tree only.) Whereas other classes that are not afforded rotations that are quite as complex and have no way to up their damage (as much) through proper situational mastery of that rotation. However, it seems that Cataclysm will be homogenizing this too -- cat rotation getting cleaner (i.e. more faceroll -- at least according to the wishes of the devs) and more complex rotations are being added to some of the other classes. (Ret in particular.) I just hope that the devs will stick to their guns that all DPS should be close to one another -- some better than others, but not miles apart. We'll have to wait and see. I'm not a big fan of the healing homogenization that's going on, but with DPS... it seems to be shaping up to be better.
4-20-2010 @ 7:42PM
Speaking as a feral dps here:1) "Yeah, you can't self-heal as well in kitty, but you get a lot of tools due to shifting into tank form. "And the last time I tried to switch into bear form to save the day using said tools, Toravon squished me in about 2 hits. If you don't have the proper talents you're still not going to be an effective tank.2) "but I'm assuming that there are addons that lets you know what buttons to push when -- thus making life simplier and taking the edge off of a complex "if X then Y" rotation."And there are addons for other DPS specs to help with their complicated parts (the ones that have them that is). There are addons to make healing a lot easier too (Grid, Decursive, etc).Even for classes that have "simple" rotations, I have found that the skilled players who take the time and effort to practice their rotations and read up on the interwebs tend to find ways to eke out the extra dps.
4-20-2010 @ 8:00PM
I've done very little feral dps with my druid, but realistically, you cannot put out competitive dps as feral without being fully specced and glyphed for it. Even then, you have to keep up a bleed debuff, at least 2 bleeds, an attack power buff, and you have a positional requirement (you have to be behind the mob to use shred, mangle is a significant dps loss). One bleed comes from a combo point builder, and the bleed debuff generates combo points, but all other abilities require combo points. Plus you have Tiger's Fury to keep on cooldown, and Berserking on a 3-min cooldown, and you don't want to use them both together. Oh, and don't forget feral faerie fire. Barkskin is nice for predictable damage spikes, or even when you just took damage to give the healers a little more time to top you off. However, since you are fully specced and glyphed for feral dps, you cannot even tank 5-mans unless you have a really good healer because you will take a *lot* of damage.Kitty dps is by far the most complex way to dps of any class I've tried, and I have all classes except shaman to 70, five classes to 80, and a shammy at lvl 60.
4-20-2010 @ 8:56PM
You HAVE seen the feral kitty flowchart, yes?http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/vertidog/catdps.jpgIt boggles the mind. I've played a druid for ages and ages, and I still can't understand how to do that!
4-20-2010 @ 9:17PM
@karoline.berstad It's simple. John %*)$ing Madden is all you have to do....In all seriousness, at minimum finding out a good buff/debuff tracker (I use tellmewhen) helps a lot with the "rotation." Lots and lots of practice will help too. And raiding at
4-20-2010 @ 9:22PM
@karoline.berstad(Lets try this again, comment system cut off the second half of my comment) It's simple. John %*)$ing Madden is all you have to do....In all seriousness, at minimum finding out a good buff/debuff tracker (I use tellmewhen) helps a lot with the "rotation." Lots and lots of practice will help too. And raiding for a long time will eventually get you that practice, I've been raiding as feral dps for the majority of Wrath (moonlighted as a bear for the very very beginning) and I'm still learning new things.
4-20-2010 @ 9:50PM
Agree with dillonwelch, cat dps is so far from facerolling that even reducing some complexity will be a lot more than what other classes deal with. You HAVE to stick to a very strict rule based on state. Any mistakes in choosing what ability to use at any time will likely result in a significant dps loss. To get to that level where we are on par with pure dps requires a very high level of gear, skill and departing from any talents that give us any utility just to eek out a bit more dps. And even then, rogues usually have the upper hand in dps plus a lot of utility. I like where feral dps is in terms of dps, but the JFM can definitely be a bit more forgiving than it is now. The way Cata is putting pure dps talents into the mastery and allowing choice of utility talents is definitely a great way to go for the feral tree as right now we are forced to choose dps over utility. (the following is my 2 cents, take it for what it is, 2 cents)Homogenization wise, anything that has to do with the actual resource system, rage, energy, mana, should be homogenized to some degree. The basic premises of gaining said resource at a certain rate to allow abilities to be used at certain rates should pretty much be the same. The abilities we use with these resources to do our job, however, is where we should differ. The preview of classes in Cata gave me a feeling that Blizzard doesn't really follow any strict pattern, homogenizing and differentiating in both camps.Take the rogue combo point transfer for example. Combo points are a resource that is directly shared between rogues and feral druids. Both need combo points as a resource for certain abilities. Moving to a new target is a dps loss for both rogues and druids because of combo points (not the only reason but still a considerable chunk). However rogues got the combo point transfer and as far as Blizz has let known, druids didn't. I have an issue with that.Adding an interrupt, however, is a rogue ability that will be given to feral druids as well. Kitty druids have one interrupt in combo point using Maim, which is actually a incapacitate like the Rouge's Gouge that has no combo point requirement, but with a silence effect, but not on players or bosses, which makes it pretty much useless since it gives our dps a complete nosedive. Adding a reliable interrupt is definitely a quality of life enhancement, but at what cost? This is where I think the case of homogenization is bad. Basically rogues press an icon with a shoe on it that makes the rogue do a roundhouse and interrupts spell casting, and druids presses the same button with a different icon and maybe a unique animation (highly doubt it considering the amount of unique animations we have received in the past which is FOUR, one left paw hit, one right paw hit, an up to down rake and a jump(which really isn't unique, just the distance and duration of it), the rest are all spell glow effects in front of the cat). The end effect is a boring duplication of a rogue ability.I hope Blizzard will put in some more thought in making the ability unique to the druid class, not just a copy of another class's ability with added restrictions to gimp it just for the heck of the hybrid tax.
4-20-2010 @ 10:28PM
When dual spec came out, Feral DPS was my offspec for months and months. I studied the priority list on theorycrafting site and I installed addons like BadKitty/FeralByNight to try to maximize my DPS, and I still lagged behind other DPS, especially on any fight where there was the least bit of movement, or where a tank would not stand in one place.I finally gave up on kitty and went tree. Now that they're taking away tree, and feral DPS is going to become "more forgiving", I'll probably be going back to it.
4-21-2010 @ 10:47AM
I have "John F%$ing Madden" macro'ed to yell when I hit Berserk.
4-21-2010 @ 12:37PM
@ Karoline.berstadThe only hard thing about kitty dps is watching over your one buff, four debuffs, energy usage and combo point maintenance AND cool down usage while being aware of the fight your doing. The only real hard thing there is knowing when to use ferocious bit. So basically you go in to a matrix like zen state where you can watch all these things and perform like your neo dodging bullets from a chain gun or... you head explodes. And that's why we love it.
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