Raid Rx: Tank and healer disagreements
by Matt Low 
Apr 22nd 2010 at 6:00PM
One way I like to destress from raiding is by doing more raiding. Am I crazy? Yeah, probably. The only difference is that I like to raid on my alt as a DPS class of some sort. If I'm not busy Divine Storming, I'm taking a page from Shatner and unloading bolts of lightning in Icecrown.
The funny thing about joining pickup groups is that everyone seems to know more about everyone else's class than the players themselves do. For one thing, the tanks appear to know more than the healers and the healers know more than the tanks. What gives? Let me outline what happened.There had been a little friction going on in the raid as we were heading up to Festergut. I didn't think it was anything substantial. It sounded like generic pug chatter. Anyway, once we get to the orange gas boss, things started out routinely enough. The healers stood in the center of the room and we had enough ranged DPS on the outside. Spores were synchronized. We hit the third inhale and Festergut started absolutely destroying the tank. I didn't think he was going to make it. Sure enough, several seconds later, the tank died and we all wiped.
The healing priest we had with us became upset. He wanted to know why the bear didn't pop his cooldowns. The priest had a spore up at the time and had to run out to the ranged and wasn't able to heal through the incoming damage. Naturally, the bear tank became livid and roared back asking where his Pain Suppression was.
The priest responded and said, "First of all, I'm holy." But the point was moot as the tank already took off. Another raid ended in a shouting match because of the players involved, no one wanted to take responsibility or bury the hatchet and move on. The raid was effectively shot at that point. No one wants to come in when the first four bosses of Icecrown have been taken down. Most players still want the badges or the gear.
Forget about establishing fault for a moment. Shouldn't the immediate priority be on hammering out solutions instead of identifying fault? Going back to Festergut here, the raid knew that the boss would swing that much harder. There are significantly geared tanks out there who can easily absorb that kind of punishment without having to rely on any cooldowns at all whatsoever. As this is a pug, I'd assume that bad things would happen and prepare for them.
Think about your outs
Imagine for a moment that World of Warcraft was like poker. Look at the cards you're dealt and think about how many outs you have in order to survive or to advance. Going back to the Festergut example, we had access to two paladins: One was protection specced and the other was retribution specced. We had a holy priest and a shaman but there wasn't much he could contribute from a life saving perspective. Lastly, there was our bear tank who had his own cooldowns. We had four outs in the raid. There were four ways that tank could have survived.
Something I've noticed is that unless these are coordinated in advance, players rarely use them! Perhaps they just assume that someone else with a cooldown will use theirs first so that they don't have to. When I play on my retribution paladin, I always keep my fingers on Divine Sacrifice just in case. You never know, right?
I don't know about you or your raids, but I personally prefer having tanks light up their defensive cooldowns first. They can give an advance notice on when their cooldowns will expire. Healing cooldowns can then be overlapped on top to further stretch out survivability.
Check that ego at the door!
It's unfortunate that the raid ended the way it did. I had high hopes that Festergut and Rotface would be taken down. I honestly thought that we had a good shot at them as well.
All I want to say is the next time you sense you're about to become involved in a confrontation or a conflict similar to the one above, be willing to back down. My guess is you want your badges and loot. When it comes to tactics, not everyone runs the same playbook. For the sake of group cohesion, I've even backed down once or twice even though I fully knew I did nothing wrong (and others in the group confirmed that as well). It's nice to be right all the time, but I get annoyed when things fall apart.
Sometimes, the best course of action is to simply take a deep breath and calm down. Instead of looking for faults, find out different options that can be done in the future to prevent this wipe from happening again. And above all, don't aggravate another person for the sake of aggravating them. I don't know why people do this but it's simply unnecessary. Work on de-escalating a situation as it tends to lead to a better outcome for everyone. Maybe we won't have as many players abandoning raids.
The correct play
In any event, I think the best play that could've happened here on Festergut was getting the priest to priest acknowledge that they had to run out of the middle to get the spore on the rest of the group. The tank should have ignited their cooldown and then the priest could have used his after it expired. If only things could have been done differently.
Want some more advice for working with the healers in your guild? Raid Rx has you covered with all there is to know! Need raid or guild healing advice? Email me at matticus@wow.com and you could see a future post addressing your question. Looking for less healer-centric raiding advice? Take a look at our raiding column, Ready Check. Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Priest, Shaman, Analysis / Opinion, Raid Rx (Raid Healing)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
(cutaia) Apr 22nd 2010 6:04PM
Wonderful article. Ego can sometimes be the hardest boss to down in this game.
PrincessRosario Apr 22nd 2010 6:17PM
Ah, the ego boss...my guildies and I like to refer it to pugs as Epeen Orgies, because all they do is stroke each other's...
le sigh.
Arbolamante Apr 22nd 2010 6:17PM
I guess it depends on the specifics of the situation, but missing one spore does not necessarily mean a wipe, but a dead tank often does. A hard call, in which you really need a trusted raider leader to make some quick decisions. Maybe one of the hybrid dps could off heal for a few seconds? Key thing here is you have to expect these things to happen more often in a pug and just learn to go with the flow. Check your ego at the door, indeed.
ToyChristopher Apr 22nd 2010 6:20PM
Tanks need to learn there place.
;D jk
(cutaia) Apr 22nd 2010 6:23PM
Hey now...we know our place: Face deep in monster crotch. :)
Nazgûl Apr 22nd 2010 6:54PM
"Phnnnggmmm mggggmmm blllgghh!"
"What was that Yogi?"
"BLLLLLLLLLLWWWW CLLLLDNNN!"
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you, what are you saying?"
Yogi has died.
Nobooboo has died.
"I was saying, 'pop your cooldowns'."
"Oh sorry, couldn't hear you with your head buried in Festergut's spot."
Swifteye Apr 22nd 2010 7:09PM
I've been here long enough now to start recognizing more and more of the regular commentators... and if it's not too bold to say so, cutaia, every time I see one of your posts it makes me want to have your babies just a little bit more. XD
Aurix Apr 22nd 2010 7:41PM
15 Internets for you, good sir!
Gingko Apr 22nd 2010 6:31PM
Communication is what was needed there: as a healing coordinator, I remind healers that they can and should call out in Vent when they're taken out of commission for doing their assignment for a few seconds. Spiked in Marrowgar, running a spore in Fester, ice tomb target in Sindragosa. If they don't call it out, I will, because somebody else needs to pick up the slack briefly. In pugs I'm likely to assign someone specifically to fallback duty, though in guild raids I trust my fellow healers to use their heads.
That tank needed to chill. Usually Festergut requires the tank to participate actively in his/her own survival, so I don't know why this one was grousing. MIscommunications happen in guild raids, never mind in pugs. Rez, dust yourselves off, fix what went wrong, try again.
Cyanea Apr 23rd 2010 4:48AM
If anything, I'm overprotective when it comes to cooldowns. Mik's Scrolling Battle Text gives me a low health warning sound, and when I hear it...the healers have half a second to get me up or gimme a cooldown before I hit Divine Protection. I don't necessarily watch my own health when I'm tanking, and I do heal so I know that healers see things happening before tanks and DPS do sometimes, so I don't waste time screwing around. If I don't get a response in that half a second (basically, the time it takes for me to react to the sound and move my fingers to Shift + 3), I pop my own CD.
When I'm healing, I tend to lean towards overreacting. Granted, I heal on a Shammy so I don't have much I can do in terms of imminent tank death other than NS + Tidal Force with a Healing Wave and hoping that one of my priest co-healers (I raid with two) is paying attention. The rare times I'm healing something on my Disc priest, I will pop Pain Suppression early and often.
Redielin Apr 22nd 2010 6:42PM
Nice write up. I know that this is a problem for me.
Anyway, I'm wondering how in the heck the Priest was forced to move so far that he was out of range of the melee/tanks. I don't think I'm ever out of range during Festergut, either on 10 or 25, even if I have to move out to a ranged group.
Moorit Apr 23rd 2010 12:46AM
He wasn't running "out of range," he was running "to the ranged" (as in, to the hunters and mages). He couldn't run and heal at the same time. That's what took him out of commission momentarily. Some healers can heal a little while moving, and others can't. I'm guessing this guy was in the latter category.
moneypenny Apr 22nd 2010 6:46PM
I healed Festergut for the first time yesterday and absolutely blew this same exact phase of the fight. It was a pug and no one gave me a healing assignment, so I focused on raid (druid) while hotting up and healing the tank whenever I had a chance.
I'm a new healer so I am very self-conscious about my healing. We also had a holy pally, so I was very tempted to keep my mouth shut and avoid the wrath of the group. But I also knew that 1) I accepted the raid invite and 2) I knew as soon as the tank dropped what I could have done better, so I dealt the embarrassment, told them I screwed up, and we 2 shot.
I'm very happy that the two tanks were cool about it. It's definitely making me aware of things I never noticed when I was dpsing these fights.
Jay Apr 22nd 2010 6:51PM
You honestly don't expect the DPS in a PUG to stop for second and assist in other ways do you? That would, you know, drop their recount down so they can't be in top spot.
theRaptor Apr 22nd 2010 8:34PM
As a Spriest I have found myself constantly doing that since they reduced Shadowforms mana cost. Last night I was tank healing to the over skyship while waiting for more adds to spawn. I have stopped many wipes by popping Divine Hymn.
steven Apr 22nd 2010 7:21PM
Minor thing in last paragraph: "getting the priest to priest acknowledge".
Great article and could not agree more with "Shouldn't the immediate priority be on hammering out solutions instead of identifying fault?"
I have not personally seen anything past first boss in ICC but have run into something like this in Heroics. Ran H-VH the a few weeks ago and got the arcane boss who blew the tank apart because the tank did not kite the boss and had three-four orbs touching boss. Tank died then the boss cleared the rest of us and first thing tank said was "heals?" I had typed out "kite" a couple of times while on DPS duty. When I read "heals?" I was started yelling at my monitor so I could get that part out of my system then explained the problem while running through Dalaran as a ghost back to VH. His response "never had to do it before." *facepalm!* For those of you who want to down rank, I did not put into text anything I verbally said to my monitor. I was much more cool and calm in party chat!
Playing WoW and doing instances is like working in the corporate world, everyone loves to point the finger somewhere else, but nobody accepts responsibility until everything goes correctly or the end result has been accomplished.
Nightwhisp Apr 23rd 2010 1:12PM
Dude, thanks for pointing out that typo. Now suddenly the whole thing makes sence. People like you do a great service! I sure hope I raid with you sometime so you can knitpick everything I do as well. Feel free to get a life at some point.
John Apr 22nd 2010 10:50PM
"The funny thing about joining pickup groups is that everyone seems to know more about everyone else's class than the players themselves do."
This one sentence deserves an article all to it's own. Players OFTEN can use advice. I would say the majority of players have at least 3 things that they don't do "the best way" that they could. (Don't dig too deep at this statement, I'm not talkin EJ stuff here, more like "make sure you use the right spellrank" and "Don't forget to use Inner Fire!" type things).
The problem is that almost every single pug I've ever been in, there are almost always one or two hotshotties that know EVERYONE'S class. Good for them! Fantastic! That makes you a better player! But when you start blurting out to the raid or over vent that SO-and-SO is doing it wrong and sucks because of xyz or they don't use ability cde, that just makes you a douche.
You can spam lrn2play all day long. Unfortunately, it is your own damn elitism that causes those TRYING to learn to wipe your raid or quit / quit game. Try..... lrn2teach. Your perspective on the entire WoW community might just change a little bit.
/rant
Torr Apr 23rd 2010 2:51PM
Knowing alot about different classes isn't always a bad thing. I have a reputation in my guild for being the "Know-it-all" about most classes, and some ppl even call me Torr-bot because i can answer their questions quickly, and often correctly. In raids i dont tell people how to play their class, however if there is an obvious problem then i will FIRST: inspect said person looking at talents and gear/gem/enchant choices. some things are obvious, pally in a generic holy spec(51/5/15) but with just all 5 pieces of t9 healing gear, a healing trink and the rest blue/crafted Ret gear and the problem is obvious, and i whisper said person and suggest a slightly less significant role for that person, like OT healing instead of MT healing. but then there are times where its alot harder to find a problem. Example: Holy priest, 13/58/0 spec, mostly triumph gear, a few conquest items, and the frost cloak, spell power and haste enchants, and all spell power+haste gems, with just one green haste+spirit gem for a meta = not a bad set up, and healing output is ok, but after 4 wipes on marrowgar, this priest was usually number 3 on the healing done meter and was primary raid heals, after wipe number 4 i started whispering said priest, and asked if they were having a problem, i got "yes, my mana is being burned up like CRAZY", after a second look at the gear i noted that: only seven pieces of gear HAD spirit on them, adding up to a total of just under 350 spirit while buffed, so i suggested that she try spot healing the raid instead of actively healing, and i will pick up the slack: we downed marrowgar our next try and deathwisper on out second try after that.
the point im trying to make here is: HAVING extensive knowledge of the classes in wow is one thing, but knowing HOW to use it is more important, and thats where most ppl fail, they rant/order/complain/or just pain get nasty when someone has a problem.
Another point that I would also like to make is this: my main raiding toon right now is a Resto Shammy, and most of the time I OT heal/partial raid heal(thats my healing designation, there are 4: MT heal, OT heal, Tank healing/partial raid, and full raid) and usually i am number 1 or 2 on the meter(against a resto druid) by just spamming chain heal and riptide when off CD on the OT and keeping ES on one of the tanks, usually OT, its a simple way of healing and it works for my group, relieves stress from both the MT healing and raid heals because of CH bouncing, and gives our healing team some mana leeway because i LOVEE MP5 so i rarely run out of mana. I understand that healing group is a preference to each group, but keeping an open mind about HOW a person heals and not just what class/spec they are usually helps the raid in general.
Sunhead Apr 22nd 2010 7:39PM
Yep, spore on a tank healer. Its fatal.
Its why my tank healers always stand on a different gather point.
In 10 man, one on the tanks and one out at range.
That way the tank heals never have to move during the 3 stack.
Must say one thing I often see is no-one steps up and takes Heal Lead in PUG's. People do Raid Leader spots for various reasons but everyone seems to forget about coordinating the healers. Or assumes they are just doing it behind the scenes maybe.