Ready Check: Dealing with disruptive raid members

Don't get me wrong. If you take the time to talk to applicants, make sure they know the rules of the group and have a general idea of how to do their dance steps, then things usually go smoothly. And since the dozen or so of the core group are doing most of the heavy lifting, there's not a whole lot that can go wrong. But sometimes, just sometimes, you get that one dude who's just completely off the rails.
They can be a perfectly awesome player. Skilled, geared and knowledgeable. But they just won't shut up. You can beg, cry, bargain, plead, demand, threaten and cajole for them to tone their behavior down. But everything they say is offensive, and they like to say a whole lot of it.
So how do you deal with this? Dealing with an obnoxious raid member is a little different than dealing with an obnoxious guild member, because there's an entire additional issue of immediacy. You have to handle this guy now, on the raid, before it progresses into something that disrupts your ability to kill bosses.
The puppy biting method
I have a 4-month-old puppy. While she's a light in my life, she does have a small issue. She bites. I'm told, technically, this is called "mouthing." She doesn't mean anything by it; she's just teething and rambunctious and doesn't know any better. But I can't whack her with a newspaper or something, because then she's as likely to learn to be afraid of me as she is to learn biting is bad. For that matter, the newspaper treatment is just more roughhousing, and all I'd be doing is feeding her energy and riling her up more.
Not to make an unfair comparison between my puppy and obnoxious raid members, but I'm going to make that comparison. Not all obnoxious raid puppies are misbehaving out of spite or meanness. Instead, they just don't know any better. They're excited and a little off-kilter. In their excitement, they're saying things that are annoying to other raid members.
When my puppy nips, I ignore her. I don't spank her or anything, I just withdraw my affection. My affection means the world to her, and she's caught on that if she does something I don't like ... I ignore her.
When a raid member is running off at the mouth, he's looking to engage with someone. Ignore him. Just as you shouldn't feed the trolls, don't feed the antics of a raid member who just seems to constantly be freaking out. If you argue with the person, he's going to want to argue back. Heck, even perfectly rational people sometimes argue out of a sense of frustration or anger; with someone who might be a little wacky anyway, it'll be even worse. Just don't feed their worked-up and out-of-line mojo.
Hopefully, this least confrontational method will get the point across to the subversive raid member. They'll get the hint that they're out of line when no one is responding to their antics, and they'll quickly start behaving.
The quiet whisper method
You're next best option is to quietly send the raid member a whisper and tell him, politely, that you believe he's out of line. However, I wouldn't recommend using language like "You're out of line," or "What the heck were you thinking?" Telling someone something like "you're wrong" is one of the best ways to pick a fight; your target will want to defend himself.
Instead, say something like, "Let's focus on the raid; I think we're getting distracted" or "Let the raid leader speak now, so that we're all on the same page." Your goal isn't necessarily to gag the obnoxious raid member, because you could just put them on ignore. In its place, you are trying to refocus their energy where it should be -- facilitating a high performance in the raid.
This is obviously a fairly direct confrontation and not everyone will be comfortable with it. That's why you need to focus on the positive aspects ("Let's focus") instead of the negative ones ("You are out of line"). Sure, it might be satisfying to have an argument, but that's not your goal -- the success of the raid is your goal.
Have the raid leader handle it
I've almost never seen a situation in which someone's really riling up the raid, and there's only one person bothered. And since the raid leader is concerned with protecting the success of the raid, he or she will want to know there's a problem, if he doesn't already.
It's pretty tempting to think of this as being a tattletale or a thin-skinned complainer. But if you're having an honest problem, you should talk to the raid leader about it instead of springing it on him when you spontaneously decide to bail on his group.
Of course, if you can wait until after raid and during downtime, then you should do that. But if for whatever reason, this obnoxious person's behavior is bothering you so much that you just can't ride it out, then go ahead and talk to the raid leader about it immediately. As I said, it's likely you aren't the only one bothered. But you definitely shouldn't just post a snippy goodbye in raid chat and leave. Have enough respect for the 24 other people raiding alongside you to give the raid leader a chance to mitigate the behavior.
If you think you might be the obnoxious person ...
Cut it out and just have fun in the raid.
Good hunting, folks.
Ready Check is here to provide you all the information and discussion you need to bring your raiding to the next level. Check us out weekly to learn the strategies, bosses and encounters that make end-game raiding so much fun. Filed under: Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Jon Apr 23rd 2010 2:05PM
Simple solution - mute them on vent or kick them from the raid!
Barinthos Apr 23rd 2010 2:08PM
Agreed.
I don't care how skilled or knowledgeable they are in a raid, if they aren't intelligent enough to shut their trap in a raid then I'm not going to give them the time of day.
Heilig Apr 23rd 2010 2:15PM
/gremove
Slick Apr 23rd 2010 2:31PM
I think you've all missed the point. Not all raiders are commodities that are used up and then thrown away when you get sick of them.
Kicking should be the final resort when a behavior cannot be corrected. The author gives three great methods to try correcting the behavior.
It's just a shame that so many people have gotten impatient to the point of "If you're not perfect immediately, you're gone"
Clevins Apr 23rd 2010 2:53PM
@slick,
no they didn't miss the point. They're reacting to
"...But they just won't shut up. You can beg, cry, bargain, plead, demand, threaten and cajole for them to tone their behavior down. But everything they say is offensive, and they like to say a whole lot of it..."
Someone like that is way beyond the point of not being perfect. If I'm RL, they get asked once, maybe 2x. At that point I either mute them or kick them from the raid. 24 (or 9) > 1.
Sky Apr 23rd 2010 4:31PM
well most of the time we aren't the raid leader so we can't kick em, but we can't leave halfway through the raid either cause were already saved to the instance. Personally, I just mute them on vent. If he is being obnoxious in guild/raid chat I just ignore his messages. Most of the time, the obnoxious ones aren't your raid leader anyway so you have no reason to listen to the crap they are spewing.
Heilig Apr 23rd 2010 4:59PM
Read Clevins comment. he's exactly right. Someone that is a little unruly and needs to be remined to calm down every now and then is fine. Someone overly excited about loot or something is fine.
Someone who simply will not be lead, will not listen, will not shut up, and is consistently disruptive doesn't get to be in my guild.
I work in sales, and I constantly have to tell my employees something that comes with the wisdom of years. When it comes to unruly customers, there is a line. Some dollars aren't worth earning. The same thing applies to my guild members and raiders.
/gremove
Snowfeather Apr 23rd 2010 10:10PM
Heilig, when I worked in sales I would have loved to have you as a boss. Unfortunately my bosses bent over backwards for the customer, and i got stuck in that uncomfortable position between telling the customer what I could do based on the company's rules and then what my manager said to make them happy.
Angus Apr 23rd 2010 7:35PM
I am the leader of a smallish guild. We are constantly battling the 25 man raid boss called "attendance" and at least 2 of my raid members are of the "annoying" variety.
I was raid leader (am transitioning an officer to it so when my baby comes I can withdraw a bit and the guild will not suffer for it) until recently. I could NOT ignore or mute the people that for some reason drove me up a wall. I simply could not and still can't during raids. I need to know what is going on on their end.
Sometimes you can't just boot them, you have to deal with it even when you personally think the line has been crossed. In some cases I have made an officer who is not personally annoyed at the person, but understands the situation deal with them in whispers. The officer has no stake, will not get angry and can approach it in the method outlined in #2.
First time I had to deal with it was as the person NOT annoyed doing it for an annoyed officer. The raider was just so excited and happy to be in a raiding guild that appreciated he and his wife that he couldn't help it. He is now one of my most dependable, awesome, and trusted officers.
The second time was with a person that felt unappreciated. I gave him the opportunity to be in a leadership role and told him that it was because he deserved it. He is also one of my best officers now.
The latest time is with a guy I cannot personally stand. He has gotten better and we are working on him. Will he be officer material? No idea. But he gets a chance because he does try and has improved. We keep working with him and taking baby steps. Why? Because sometimes you just have to be willing to have a sucktastic day in hopes that it will pay off with many days made better by that person helping out.
Stannislaus Apr 23rd 2010 2:08PM
There used to be a rogue in my guild who would spam the fish feast emote he had macro'd and would consistently act like a child. One day he got pissed at something and called out the guild to "say something" to him. Needless to say just about everyone in the guild piped up with "You're a child" or "You're my least favorite guild member." It actually took him 5 minutes to gquit.
Fatamorgana Apr 23rd 2010 2:13PM
There was a time when I could handle this person by walking to the router and unplugging him Cat5. =3
More to the matter at hand, I like the three strikes method.
1. Polite w/Let's focus on the run and enjoy the raid. =)
2. More direct in the event they are thick headed w/Please cut the chatter. It's becoming disruptive.
3. After third and final offense w/Thanks for coming, but perhaps this raid makeup isn't the best suited for your personality. Safe travels /partykick.
Unfortunately, trolls raid too. But that's what the ignore list is for.
Fatamorgana Apr 23rd 2010 2:16PM
*his
wtb edit button
also wtb comments button for ignore list similar to the one on friends list in social window.
galestrom Apr 23rd 2010 2:16PM
This seems to be more prevalent lately, whether it's in guild or among the rank and file of the puggery. I don't understand it, as this type of behavior invariably kills the team's unison, causing more of the same issues that cause people to lose focus, further infuriating the fringe.
People generally need to relax. Its awesome to have opinions, but it is so much cooler to express them constructively. Personally, I'd like to see a little less tolerance for this type of behavior across the board. I do my part by tactfully conveying how totally uncool it is, and try to prompt people to provide guidance instead of insults.
Silversol Apr 23rd 2010 2:24PM
Well if you raid with a jerk you can.....
*distracted by puppy*
Fatamorgana Apr 23rd 2010 2:54PM
That's no puppy. That's a Gormok station!
Aro Apr 23rd 2010 2:24PM
Having your Raid Leader handle it tends to work better when your Raid Leader isn't best friends with and/or dating the disruptive member(s) and is to whipped to do whats right. This is why my last guilds 25 man runs quickly became 5 mans.
originalzombieslayer888 Apr 23rd 2010 2:43PM
I was running deadmines on pally alt yesterday and ran into a priest that wanted to pull all the npcs and not let the tank do his job. needless to say we dropped that priest.
Alden Apr 23rd 2010 2:42PM
While I agree this might be good advice for some raiding guilds, this is simply one style of raiding.
The guild I run with will tell offending parties "Shut up— you're annoying."
Or something like "Screw up one more time like that, and you're out.". And yes, I have even seen the MT kicked.
It happens infrequently, because when people join this guild, this is what they know they are getting. I LIKE this kind of thing, because I know I won't have to deal with annoying behaviors in the raid. It hurts to get yelled at (happened to me a few times) but it cuts down on a lot of the drama and annoying behavior so I like it.
Short version: The advice you give is good for one style of guild leadership, but it is not the only way to go. Make sure to find a guild that is in line with your ideas of how social situations like this should be handled before joining.
charlie Apr 23rd 2010 2:43PM
"However, I wouldn't recommend using language like "You're out of line," or "What the heck were you thinking?" Telling someone something like "you're wrong" is one of the best ways to pick a fight; your target will want to defend himself."
Jeez, stop pussying around. How is anyone going to learn if you don't point out the actual problem.
Whisper him why is is wrong, what you want him to do about, and what will happen if he doesn't. Then act on it.
Irem Apr 23rd 2010 3:17PM
I agree to a certain extent, but it's also true that people are often more likely to get defensive when called out directly than to learn from it. They might reflect later and think, "Okay, I acted like an ass," but if someone is immature enough to be disrupting the raid, in my experience their chances of admitting that are pretty low. Some people will say they're sorry and chill out, and some of them have zero shame and will just get pissed.
This advice would probably work well when you're trying to make the best of a bad situation (not in a position to remove or openly reprimand the person, not in a position to leave, and no one else is stepping up to do anything about it). If you're just trying to salvage your last frayed nerve and/or get the raid running smoothly again, beating around the bush and playing nice guy can sometimes get complete jackasses to mellow out.