Cataclysm badge and PvP point changes

Blizzard just released a lengthy statement on Cataclysm badges and PvP point changes. Badges are going away in Cataclysm. Instead, everything will be point based for both PvE and PvP gear. There will be four types of points earned (two PvE and two PvP):
- Hero Points, Low tier PvE gear
- Valor Points, High tier PvE gear
- Honor Points, Low tier PvP gear
- Conquest Points, High tier PvP gear
Hero points are like the current Emblems of Triumph. Valor Points are like Emblems of Frost, and have a cap on how many you can get each week. Honor Points are like the current Honor Points, and Conquest Points are like the current Arena Points. There will be maximum caps on each sets of points.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
We're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
PvP
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
- Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
- Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)
PvP
- Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
- Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
Arrowsmith Apr 26th 2010 11:28PM
So for PvE, it's Wrath, condensed.
I like this.
Friday_Knight Apr 28th 2010 12:56AM
This is one of the big reasons why Blizzard is such a great company and why WoW is so insanely successful. They're always paying attention to the community and using that feedback; constantly refining and improving what does work and ruthlessly pruning what doesn't.
I really liked the badge system on paper. It really looked like a solid well-organized system for progression through tiers of gear levels. However in practice it didn't work out quite so well. I am intrigued with this point system that basically distills down the dual roads of casual and hardcore advancement. I'm interested to see how gear tiers will scale in this system.
Hollow Leviathan Apr 27th 2010 3:51AM
I kinda still wish I was earning emblems or badges in PVE, just for the heft of actual high value tokens, instead of 10,000s of 'points'. It's just a personal flavor issue, but points is such a bland term. I'm sure I'll get over it.
Eisengel Apr 27th 2010 6:57AM
I have to say, this change and the raiding lockout/difficulty change are making me a lot more optimistic about Cat. I was ready to shelve my account for a while after many of the seemingly half-done, vague, and even sometimes contradictory class previews. All of these developments though seem very well-defined, direct, and changes that I by and large not only agree with, but sound like things Blizz has been making noises about for a while and now are committing to releasing (no more soon(TM)?!). I just hope they start updating the class previews to read more like these releases. If they do, I'll send a couple bottles of Blue Sapphire on over. This is much better than the ramp up into BC and Wrath were (so far) IMO.
MusedMoose Apr 27th 2010 7:40AM
Wholly agreed. I've spent far too much time finding out what I need to kill to get what type of badge and if that's even worth doing because there's *another* type of badge that can get me better gear. @_@ Blizzard found a system that works and has now simplified it to make the system better, and I say huzzah. Can't wait to see this in action.
Kragragh Apr 27th 2010 7:48AM
I agree that points are so boring. Surprised they couldn't have thought of something else. Seems like a step backwards in "flavor" at least.
Oldhoof Apr 27th 2010 10:05AM
This is an awesome change.
It effectively removes the current situation when disgruntled raiders are forced to run heroics each day for frost badges, potentially grieving undergeared or fresh 80s. Serious raiders will be able to hit the weekly cap with raids, while more casual players may opt to run heroics for valor points.
The best thing is that I can mix and match this. If one week I'm raiding a lot, I'll hit the cap and have no need to run heroics or in general I'm done with valor points for this week. Another week I can say screw raids and run a few heroics and still not miss out on valor points.
kabshiel Apr 27th 2010 10:50AM
It makes sense. When they took badges and marks out of our bags and made a separate page for them, they basically stopped being items and just became another currency system anyway.
BoomingEchos Apr 27th 2010 11:28AM
@Hollow Leviathan
Yeah I understand the flavor thing you said but look at it this way.. Think of it this way these points are like "renown" that we can spend to get gear for our effort.. Badges don't make sense right now flavor-wise because why do these bosses have badges on them, specially when most of these bosses were never meant to have met or be in the same group? THEN why do these badges change with each tier change?..
See this way the points being like "renown" we can kill and kill with impunity and gain some sort of "word of mouth" credit from it without it acting like an item THEN when these bosses become less difficult as the tiers rise we still gain renown but a lesser form of it for going after things that are technically below us. When we spend the points it'll be more like we're using our status to gain what we need to go on, while using it up (almost like a favor) till we gain it back to use the next time.
Reason I say renown, and not just reputation, because we grind reputations and I don't see them changing that at all, so it can't possibly be known as reputation.. Renown is generally something that can fluctuate (in this case spent) while reputations usually take a while to change.
Personally, I like this change.. Way less messy then the badge system.
Eternauta Apr 27th 2010 11:28AM
I love these changes!
Now I won't feel that I "must" log in every day even if I don't want to. And the new Hero & Valor points system is far more elegant than having 5+ types of emblems. When new tier drops: Valor points => Hero Points! Simple, effective, prevents stockpiling, I like it.
And though I don't PvP too much, I like the fact that this system doesn't force you to do Arenas. I think both BG players and Arena players will be happy. (I'm more of a BG person, but that's just me).
Elmouth Apr 27th 2010 3:55PM
I'm glad they're spending time on things as crucial as emblem system really.
/sarcasm
Kuro Apr 27th 2010 4:03PM
The auto-downgrading method is great.
Points vs. Badges
I hate points. From a psychological standpoint, having to amass 45,000 Honor to get a pvp helm was a huge numer. "Aww man, I gotta kill how many people to get that.. ugh! And I'm, late to WG, got stuck in the second raid group with 4 other people!"
Badges are easier to calculate. "ok.. I need 95 frost to get that helm.. that's 14 a week for randoms, 4 from VoA, 20+ from ICC, etc." So, I knew it was a 2 week grind to get a helm.
Luisette Apr 26th 2010 11:31PM
Sounds good so far! *thumbs up*
swimstarguy Apr 27th 2010 1:41AM
Oh yeah, thumbs way up!
I love BG's, it's pretty much why I play, but I hate arenas. I couldn't have fixed it better myself. :)
Andrew Apr 26th 2010 11:33PM
This sounds great. Much simpler than the current system, no more converting 40 badges 3 times for a piece of heirloom gear.
Chris S Apr 27th 2010 1:31AM
Followed by accidentally buying 40 Sons of Hodir commendations by accident. Fun times.
Brian Apr 27th 2010 8:31AM
agreed the downranking was a pain, and this is an evolution of the system, but I really do not see it being as big of a change as some folks are posting about.
"The end of badges" - not really, they just changed the name. Just like they aren't badges of justice anymore, they aren't emblems of triumph anymore. Honestly, I think they started getting into an issue where the naming was becoming painful as they thought of new emblems to release.
The one thing I hope they move into the PVE realm that I think was done extremely well in PVP this time around was the gear look. I like that each tier of the pvp set looks similar, but improved upon, as you go up in seasons. If they just come up with one really awesome set of PVE gear per class in Cata for the tier set, and then scale it back for the previous tiers, it would be sweet. You can see your character grow in power without having to go through skulls, goats, whatever the heck the blades/bones are, and then boars on your shoulders.
Cyno01 Apr 26th 2010 11:37PM
I like it.
Its a little frustrating to have to run a random every day for 2 frost badges (on 3 toons), to supplement my raiding. It sounds like, to use the current environment for example, you could earn 60 frost badges a week, you could run 30 random heroics in a day and get all 60, but then you wouldnt get any from downing bosses in ICC, or vice versa, if you clear ICC and do VoA and the weekly, youd only have to do a couple random heroics that week, if any.
Sounds like it'll help the casuals, by getting them more badges than theyd be able to normally earn without raiding AND help the more hardcore players as they wouldnt have to do a heroic every day.
I anticipate quick queues for randoms on monday nights come cataclysm. :p
Cephas Apr 26th 2010 11:46PM
You seem to have misread it slightly, you get Valor Points from the "Dungeon Finder daily Heroic". Note the word "daily", implying that random heroics will only give you Valor once per day. Non-raiders will probably have lower Valor income, and raiders who hit the weekly Valor cap through raiding will be able to avoid random heroics altogether without loosing out on Valor income.
Cyno01 Apr 27th 2010 12:42AM
@ Cephas, missed that, i was thinking of some earlier comments about them tossing around the idea of people not having to feel obligated to log in every single day and maybe instead of having a daily, have your first 7 random heroics of the week give 2 top badges and leave it up to the player if they wanna run all 7 in a day, run 1 a day, or 2 or 3 2 or 3 nights a week.
Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but id prefer more weeklys and fewer dailies. I like WoW, a lot, but theres some nights i get home from work and just wanna read fark and wow.com and maybe go to bed early instead of doing my dailies.