Cataclysm badge and PvP point changes

Blizzard just released a lengthy statement on Cataclysm badges and PvP point changes. Badges are going away in Cataclysm. Instead, everything will be point based for both PvE and PvP gear. There will be four types of points earned (two PvE and two PvP):
- Hero Points, Low tier PvE gear
- Valor Points, High tier PvE gear
- Honor Points, Low tier PvP gear
- Conquest Points, High tier PvP gear
Hero points are like the current Emblems of Triumph. Valor Points are like Emblems of Frost, and have a cap on how many you can get each week. Honor Points are like the current Honor Points, and Conquest Points are like the current Arena Points. There will be maximum caps on each sets of points.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Cataclysm Badge and PvP Point ChangesWe're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
PvP
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
- Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
- Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)
PvP
- Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
- Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 9)
Bjern Fita Apr 27th 2010 5:30AM
I'd love the same thing. Having a break from the game currently, and one of the biggest reasons was I was burnt out trying to maximise my frost income.
Like the new changes proposed but I'd really love a system to avoid having to turn WoW into something I 'need' (of course I don't need to, but Blizzard admits the trap is there) to play everyday to belt out a daily. First 7 randoms in a week awarding top tier sounds great to me, but I guess that would even worsen the available numbers of tanks/healers available, especially later in the week.
Calaana Apr 27th 2010 5:34AM
Yes, the word daily is important, but so is "cap". You might only be rewarded it from the daily - so you can't do all badges in one sitting - but only three times a week. So, it gives them a throttle(ultimately good), and provides no real incentive to do everythingasfastasyoucanondayone. I think gating, of all kinds, is really going to work out well for this game.
metsjeesus Apr 27th 2010 8:53AM
I hate dailys. 1 daily= 1 boss in top raids. You dont wanna loose those emblems. If you try to keep up, you MUST do dailys. So you need to log in everyday, make daily everyday and repeat it with all alts. 3 alts make 1,5 hour minimum boring playtime. You want pvp gear too. Random battlegrounds add 1,5 hour PVP-ing more, if you are lucky. 3 hours of boredom- burnout, here i come.
Make it simple. Give "daily points". After you done daily, you remove 1 daily point. Every morning you will get 1 daily point until you got maximum 7 daily points. So one day in week, you can consume all 7 dailys and thank god you can have whole weekend off without losing any precious emblems. Its not affected with raid lockout periods, so it will be more or less evenly across whole week. With pvp same thing "pvp daily points". I dont wanna pvp-ing every day in week. I wanna choose 1-2 days when i pvp. And its not hard to implement it.
Rotclaw Apr 27th 2010 9:53AM
7 "daily" points per week! What a great idea. They really need a way to let us play without feeling like we're losing out if we skip a day. I think this idea solves it handily and could be applied to all dailies eventually. Imagine missing a few days and then just catching up in a long session. So much less stressful and, more importantly, fun.
Boobah Apr 27th 2010 12:40PM
I think it's a bit early to say that that mention of 'Daily Dungeon Finder' has the exact literal meaning it initially seems to, not when the last update mentioned 'emblems, badges, or whatever we call the new ones.'
It's very likely that that's a placeholder, and that we'll get information later telling us what they're going to do with dailies in general, and the progression-relevant one(s) in particular.
Even if they haven't decided on what that's going to be, we're still pre-beta. Lots o' time for that to change. But revamping the whole daily system so you don't have to show up every day to do the exact same (boring, repetitive) thing is something they've told us they want to do.
One of the things that I find interesting is that if the new hero points mirror honor points the way I expect (and they didn't explicitly say) you'll not be getting any more sacks of useful goods in Cataclysm; the randoms will instead give you hero points, scaled by level, and there'll be lower-level stuff available to buy with them; and new leveling folks will have the opportunity to buy stuff off the (current) Badge of Justice and emblem vendors on their way past seventy and eighty. Who wouldn't want their hunter to have the chance to pick up a Choco-bow on their way to Northrend?
Sithril Apr 26th 2010 11:37PM
My first reaction this morning was :what a dull day this will be.
After reading this it is : What the hell?!
I , for one , prefer the current emblem system (it may be becouse I got used to it) . So I am really shocked to hear this. All I can do is hope that Blizz will make it feal like the current system with just a different UI.
On a further note, they will have to reshuffle the current costs of pvp items , aswell take decisions on how will low level players interact with honor points.
Sithril Apr 26th 2010 11:39PM
To edit : me thinks the new system sounds promissing , but will need polishing.
Eli Apr 26th 2010 11:47PM
Nothing is changing besides the fact they're removing the necessity to downgrade potentially hundreds of badges.
Sarakin Apr 26th 2010 11:49PM
but the new system is basically polishing the old system
Joka Apr 27th 2010 4:14AM
How can you say it need "polishing" when we've only gotten a quick overview of what they are planning? You don't know any details!
jbodar Apr 27th 2010 6:34AM
It IS like the current system, really, just that you can now in essence earn fractions of an emblem. For example, say 1 emblem = 1000 points and you earn 4500 points for defeating a dungeon. The flexibility is nice though. You can do only what you like to do so if you hate Arena, you don't HAVE TO do it, just for the sake of competing. The point-ceiling may piss off the hard-core raiders/PVPers though.
Hendrata Apr 27th 2010 9:57AM
@Eli: but there is slight difference with the current system. You can now stockpile Hero points to prepare for a new patch release.
For example, when TOC was the highest tier, you couldn't get Triumph from heroics. You can run heroics to earn Conquest and stockpile like a million of them, but not Triumph. And bam, ICC was released, your Conquest didn't magically become Triumph, and T9 still costs Triumph.
With this system, you can stockpile Hero points until the cap, and when the new tier of raiding is released, you can buy maybe one or two pieces of the new tier immediately.
I'm very interested to know the pricing, cap, and the reward rate from each boss to see how this all plays out.
HMF Apr 27th 2010 10:27AM
@Hendrata
I think that you completely misread the post?
'For instance, if a new tier of raid gear is released, your Valor points will be converted to Hero points, and similarly if a new PvP season begins your Conquest points will be converted to Honor points. Of course that means with these new releases you'll always begin without any of the higher tier of points, and thus be unable to stockpile them.'
You will not be able to stockpile anything to get the new tier of items right away. Your current high level "points" will be converted into the lower level "points", much like trading down frost badges to triumph.
timscouse Apr 27th 2010 11:04AM
HMF, Hendrata makes a good point, and didn't misread the post.
Although it states that Valor points will be converted into Hero points, it says nothing about wiping the Hero points you had before the new tier came out. I think that they would probably let you keep your old Hero points and add your new ones up to the cap, because these are for the casual players, and it would be a huge turn off for them if every time a new tier came out they lost all the points they had been saving, especially if they dont log on every day.
this would make it a more even playing field when each new tier came out, but the more hardcore raiders would soon pull ahead in collecting Valor points by raiding.
Puntable Apr 27th 2010 11:10AM
I think I understand what Hendrata is saying.
The question which was not answered is this: What happens to your Hero points when a new tier is released? Do they go *poof*, or do they stay, and get added to the (former) Valor points.
To put it in Wrath terms by an example: You raid Naxx and get 1000 Valor points. You then quit for a year and come back during ICC. Do you now have 1000 Hero points to spend on ToC gear, or did all your points go away when the ToC tier was released?
Talia Apr 27th 2010 11:29AM
HMF is correct, and Hendrata missed the point. From Hendrata's post:
"With this system, you can stockpile Hero points until the cap, and when the new tier of raiding is released, you can buy maybe one or two pieces of the new tier immediately. "
That's the part where you're wrong. From the blue post:
"with these new releases [of the next tier of gear] you'll always begin without any of the higher tier of points"
You can stockpile and buy a bunch of the *previous* tier set with the new release, but not the *new* tier.
Hendrata Apr 27th 2010 1:08PM
Sorry yeah I misspoke, when I said "when the new tier of raiding is released, you can buy maybe one or two pieces of the new tier immediately. " what I meant was this:
when ICC is released, us casuals can buy maybe one or two pieces of T9 immediately if we've been saving all our Hero points. Of course no one should be able to buy T10 immediately, everyone will have to grind it back from zero.
Kevin Apr 26th 2010 11:37PM
Wonderful plan, blizz!!
the picture of simplicity and understandability for newbies.
Kevin Apr 26th 2010 11:38PM
Also, the "source" link links right back to wow.com
might wanna fix that.
Cephas Apr 26th 2010 11:38PM
Cool beans. I like it a lot. The Wrath badge system of new badge for every tier obviously had to go, and this seems like a great replacement.