Cataclysm badge and PvP point changes

Blizzard just released a lengthy statement on Cataclysm badges and PvP point changes. Badges are going away in Cataclysm. Instead, everything will be point based for both PvE and PvP gear. There will be four types of points earned (two PvE and two PvP):
- Hero Points, Low tier PvE gear
- Valor Points, High tier PvE gear
- Honor Points, Low tier PvP gear
- Conquest Points, High tier PvP gear
Hero points are like the current Emblems of Triumph. Valor Points are like Emblems of Frost, and have a cap on how many you can get each week. Honor Points are like the current Honor Points, and Conquest Points are like the current Arena Points. There will be maximum caps on each sets of points.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Cataclysm Badge and PvP Point ChangesWe're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
PvP
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
- Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
- Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)
PvP
- Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
- Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 9)
Ashstryke Apr 26th 2010 11:54PM
Nice a cap to the amount of points one is able to get per week. This will make it much easier to stay competitive with both pvp and pve and will also open up all kinds of avenues for how to get the higher points (Valor and Conquest). Don't feel like running heroics? Get your Conquests from raiding. Don't feel like arena? Get you Valors from BG's.
Void Apr 27th 2010 5:33AM
You get Valor from raids/heroics, not BG's/arenas. Same with Conquest, you get them from BG's/arenas, not raids/heroics. And you can not convert higher points from pve to pvp or vice-versa.
Ashstryke Apr 27th 2010 2:58PM
Void:
You get Valor from raids/heroics, not BG's/arenas. Same with Conquest, you get them from BG's/arenas, not raids/heroics. And you can not convert higher points from pve to pvp or vice-versa.
Bah had em backwards, that's what I get for not double checking :p
My point remains the same though. At this point in wrath if you don't if both voa 10 + 25 AND do the weekly (whoever must die) AND raid icc 10 + 25 AND do a heroic run every 24hrs you are not meeting your full allotment of frost badges and are therefor falling behind.
I for one am happy that with a cap there is now a choice on how to get those badges (or points whatever) and that it no longer will feel like I'm falling behind because I don't have the time to hit every possible source of badges in 1 weeks time.
Rainee Sue Apr 26th 2010 11:53PM
This... actually sounds pretty much awesome.
I approve wholeheartedly. Keeps them from having to create so many kinds of emblems, and keeps us from having to trade everything down and around to get different low tier stuff. It's just separated into "the new stuff" and "everything else".
Basically, think like it is now, except with every new tier, ALL the Heroism, Valor, etc. stuff got moved up to Emblems of Triumph.
This is ballin'. Go Blizz!
KJP Apr 26th 2010 11:53PM
We'll see how this goes. I seem to recall the badge system started out roughly this simple but spun out of control before it was over. Only time will tell if they've worked the bugs out of the system this time.
I'm still not sure what exactly ownership caps are supposed to prevent but as long as they do it like the revamped honor point system and put as few barriers as possible to spending the points that's no big deal.
Literaltruth Apr 27th 2010 1:02AM
I think the weekly caps are to solve a problem that Blizzard currently feels exists within the game. Right now a lot of people feel that they absolutely MUST run a daily heroic on every toon they play to remain competitive. Then they MUST run VoA 10 and 25, ICC 10 and 25 to get every frost emblem they can. By putting a weekly cap on these things it means that you can work out how many points you'll get from doing what you do anyway and then only do the more "chore-like" tasks (such as doing daily heroic grinding) enough to get you up to cap.
Say, my guild runs 25 man ICC and we're consistently 10/12 - possibly 11/12 on a good day. Also, I never miss a VoA in the hope that I'll get my T10.2. Maybe that amount of activity, plus the weekly raid quest, is enough to get me valor capped for the week on that toon - so I don't have to run daily heroics. However, on my alt that I'm gearing up I'm not quite geared for 25man ICC but I might get into a 10man PuG that kills the first 6 bosses and makes less points on thsoe 6 because it's a 10man instead of a 25. I can usually blag my way into a VoA 10 and and get the weekly done if it's lower tier content. So on this toon I may have to run 4 or 5 heroics during the week to get capped. Finally on my third alt I'm just freshly 80 and people laugh at my GS if I try to PuG anything more than Naxx. I would have to run daily heroics every day and might not reach valor cap, but I'll be farming hero points to get the lower tier of gear anyway.
Currently, I'd feel like I was missing out unless I run 7 days of Daily heroics on all 3 of these characters (which is 21 dungeons). Now, with this new system I might only run 7 on my fresh 80, 5 on my gearing-up alt and none at all on my raiding main - so 12 dungeon runs during the week. Suddenly I now have time to do a bit of farming, some daily quests, a bit of PvP (all the other stuff that Blizzard really wants us to try out in the game) or, you know, Go Outside and Have a Life.
simon.phillips Apr 27th 2010 5:28AM
@Literal
Spot on Sir, Spot on.
KJP Apr 27th 2010 8:10AM
I ask about the reasoning behind the OWNERSHIP caps, and I get a three-starred standing-O explanation of the logic behind the WEEKLY caps.
Gotta love the Internet sometimes.
Orlan Apr 27th 2010 11:47AM
Ownership caps are the to limit point hoarding before the new content release. It becomes possible to buy things for lower-tier points that you could buy for higher-tier points only before the new content release. So it may be profitable to save as many lower-tier points as you can until then. Ownership caps will limit the ability to do that.
Greg Apr 26th 2010 11:55PM
New system sounds good.... Not to complain but two questions; where are all these people who blizzard is always claiming are getting confused by the emblems or questing or whatever they change :P? Emblems seemed pretty simple to me.
Other question is; Am I saving all my honor points and those wintergrasp commendation things for no reason? Hard reset on honor for conquest points?
D Apr 26th 2010 11:56PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they just replace "badges" with "points" ?
Fletcher Apr 26th 2010 11:59PM
Yes, but now they don't have to introduce a new kind of badge every major patch, and we don't have to downgrade our current badges through three different kinds of badge to buy a piece of BOA gear (for example).
D Apr 27th 2010 12:05AM
Ah, didn't think about it like that. Thanks. :)
Moeru Apr 26th 2010 11:56PM
Yes.
atomicstrawberry Apr 26th 2010 11:59PM
This makes a lot of sense with regard to their stated intention to make more gear etc drop in 25-man content. Instead of extra badges dropping, you'll get more high-tier points for kills. They might even be able to start awarding points for clearing trash. Additionally it frees them up to potentially allocate more points for clearing certain bosses.
I'm just hoping that for progression raiding, they continue to have high-tier points awarded for clearing earlier raids. Not for each boss, mind you - only for a full clear. It's nice that you can go from heroics right into Icecrown right now, but the result of that is that aside from the various weekly quests, no one goes into Naxx or Ulduar any more. Being able to get top-tier gear from doing the earlier raids might encourage more groups to run them, which would help broaden the experience base of all the players who are newer to raiding.
Kavu Apr 27th 2010 12:03AM
This
Cyrius Apr 27th 2010 12:09AM
I totally agree! I like it! So it would be like at this current time in WoW... Kill ALL bosses in Naxx (example) and BOOM X amount of Valor Points :) or kill the first boss in ICC and BOOM.. X amount of Valor Points
PeeWee Apr 27th 2010 5:10AM
Earlier raids will most likely yield the lower points, just like you only get Triumph from Naxx today and it ends up being a complete waste of time.
Getting 5 men together and chain-running randoms, you can easily make 15-20 Triumph per hour (Oculus, COS and Nexus gives 7 emblems each and none of them takes longer than 25 minutes to clear), even if all of you are freshly dinged. Compare this to getting 10 men together and make 15-18 (actually, I can't remember how many you get) emblems for a full clear that'll take you much longer than an hour, especially with freshies.
atomicstrawberry Apr 27th 2010 5:21AM
@PeeWee: yes, but that's getting you the previous tier's gear. If you were being awarded some amount of Valor points in addition to the Heroism you'd get for the bosses normally, that could be used toward the top tier.
Certainly it wouldn't be as time-efficient as running the current progression raid, but at least it wouldn't be a complete waste of time. It basically would give players more incentive to experience all the content, rather than just the newest. And you could do it in higher-end gear as well, so the difficulty curve would be lessened, though with 10 and 25-man raids dropping the same ilvl we won't see the same gear quality inflation that we've experienced in Wrath.
Kay Apr 27th 2010 6:22AM
In addition to this, with the Valor cap, you wouldn't have hardcore raiders running the older raids every week as well, to maximise their Valor income. I really hope they do this, as i hate seeing Ulduar lie unused, apart from weeks where everyone zergs in for 5 minutes for the weekly.