Cataclysm badge and PvP point changes

Blizzard just released a lengthy statement on Cataclysm badges and PvP point changes. Badges are going away in Cataclysm. Instead, everything will be point based for both PvE and PvP gear. There will be four types of points earned (two PvE and two PvP):
- Hero Points, Low tier PvE gear
- Valor Points, High tier PvE gear
- Honor Points, Low tier PvP gear
- Conquest Points, High tier PvP gear
Hero points are like the current Emblems of Triumph. Valor Points are like Emblems of Frost, and have a cap on how many you can get each week. Honor Points are like the current Honor Points, and Conquest Points are like the current Arena Points. There will be maximum caps on each sets of points.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Cataclysm Badge and PvP Point ChangesWe're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
PvP
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
- Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
- Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)
PvP
- Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
- Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 9)
Vitos Apr 27th 2010 12:01AM
I'm assuming that there will be a way to turn your higher tier points Valor/Conquest into their respective Lower tiers, like you can now with 1:1 trading with emblems and buying the commendations with arena points.
V Magius Apr 27th 2010 12:17AM
I believe that concern is answered in the post.
"When a new tier of raiding gear is released or a new PvP season begins, your higher tier of points will be converted into the lower tier. For instance, if a new tier of raid gear is released, your Valor points will be converted to Hero points, and similarly if a new PvP season begins your Conquest points will be converted to Honor points. Of course that means with these new releases you'll always begin without any of the higher tier of points, and thus be unable to stockpile them."
Sounds like it's an automatic thing.
Vitos Apr 27th 2010 12:27AM
I read that, but that is not what I meant. For example, when ICC was released, I knew that I wouldn't be able to get in there for a very long time. Therefore, when I realized I only needed two more emblems to get a shiny piece of t9 I downgraded a pair of Emblems of Frost to Triumph so I could have the gear in time for my raid. I was wondering if exchanges like this would be possible under the new system.
Daethar Apr 27th 2010 11:40AM
I don't think it is ever a good idea to downgrade, because the older bosses and any randoms after the first "daily" will reward the lower tier badges (or in the new system, "points"). Just think about this: if instead of buying 2 triumph badges from 2 frost badges, you got a healer and a tank friend to run two bosses in a heroic instance. Boom, 2 triumph emblems, minimal effort. Because you had mostly t9 you outgear it anyway, and now you are not an ENTIRE DAY behind on your frost emblems.
Really, it's a matter of patience. If you really aren't interested in getting your highest tier gear as quickly as you are able, then it seems like running some casual lower-reward instances are better for you anyway. I've never traded down frost for triumph, because the time investment for frost emblems is so much greater than pugging 4 people to run a random OR just go blitz Flame Leviathan for some easy quick badges.
Psiwave Apr 27th 2010 12:05AM
My only concern is that apparently nothing has been done about 'ghost' instances. I'd have liked to see some incentive to return to lower tier raids, as it is they've not changed the system at all from the one we have now (well only cosmetically) and so everyone will only be running the higher tier raids and heroics for thier respective badges. I think it's a shame to see content have such a short lifespan.
Psiwave Apr 27th 2010 12:10AM
Apparently Mr Atomicstrawberry phrased my concerns excellently even as I was typing my post.
taedirk Apr 27th 2010 12:18AM
They could manage this with the raid points. The conversion down from raid to heroic is mentioned but they don't say anything about old raids no longer giving heroic points. If all raids hand out raid points, that's something to get people in there if they're not meeting their weekly cap.
On the same note, it's also the incentive to nudge people along for disappearing pug-raids, since this is something brought up by others during the raid discussions. Consider your high end guild is doing Raid X, Y, and Z for top progression right now. Raids Q, R, and S are still there but guild doesn't run them. PUGs will happily raid here and people who are past it can still come along and pick up some points towards their weekly cap (and maybe an odd BIS trinket or what have you).
Mike Apr 27th 2010 12:07AM
I imagine the character cap on the number of points will be designed so that you can't stockpile Hero so that when the next tier comes out, you can instantly buy all the previously Valor gear. They'll probably cap it so that once you have enough saved for a piece or two, you can't collect any more until you spend.
cyco23 Apr 27th 2010 12:08AM
So I can't raid as much as I want, and now I can't farm Heroics for my alts as much as I want to, either? Oh and now it's back to welfare epic weapons, too? Thanks for the friends and memories, Blizz.
taedirk Apr 27th 2010 12:21AM
How'd you manage to pull this out of your arse? You can raid and heroic run as much as you please. You just won't be able to get massive amounts of heroic-points while waiting for the current raid tier to trickle down.
jlpknights82 Apr 27th 2010 12:11AM
I like this a lot! I've been wanting to get some decent PVP gear for my holy paladin, but personal ratings always kill the fun for me, since I am not great in small group pvp. I prefer larger scale pvp in battlegrounds. being able to earn the good items through rated battlegrounds is perfect for me!
I wonder what the caps on high level points will be. I hope it is not too low. I'm sure they will find a good balance.
cyco23 Apr 27th 2010 12:28AM
Let's see, I raided 25's and had a separate 10's group I went with for a more casual atmosphere. I leveled alt's with friends and ran Heroics 'til ours eyes bled.
These changes are forcing me to play Their way, not the way I want to for MY money.
Cristiano Apr 27th 2010 1:12AM
There is no mention of Heroic restrictions. You're just another one of those people that will cry and throw a tantrum about something, then after all is said and done, continue to buy the expansion and pay for your sub.
Arrowsmith Apr 27th 2010 12:57AM
The "Cancel Subscription" button is always there. I'm just sayin'.
Hendrata Apr 27th 2010 12:39AM
is it just me or they haven't been creative with names?
hero = heroism
valor = valor
conquest = conquest
Toliman Apr 27th 2010 12:46AM
here's the problem : capped points and item costs.
how much 'hero' does a tier piece cost in cata?
if you need to run 10 heroics to get 2 elementary tier pieces from a vendor, will older tiers be cheaper or set about the same value as the latest season/expansion pieces or is it more like 20-30 heroics per tier piece, i.e 75 EoT items.
if you get a nice number of points, lets say 20 per boss, avg of 100 per heroic. using the old system an item cost is now going to be somewhere around 750 to 2250 hp's.
if you multiply that, you get 200 per boss, 1k per instance. 20 instances later, 20k hp, and you can buy a helm.
and the daily hero/valor is still present -- how much valor will you get per day if you're not raiding content, or need to get valor gear to get into the door in a raid group ?
if it's anything like the current arena points system, expect a long wait at 50vp/day or 50vp per boss for a relative item cost of 2500vp per tier piece.
if they make it 500vp a day/boss, it's going to be 25,000 vp for tier pieces.
it is not going to be more accessible, it just makes it like carnival/arcade prizes or microsoft spacebucks/points.
Ben Apr 27th 2010 1:07AM
"Valor Points are like Emblems of Frost, and have a cap on how many you can get each week."
That part bothers me. Why put a cap on how many points of the higher-tier someone can make per week. It seems rather ridiculous to limit players who are more successful or have more time.
awa64 Apr 27th 2010 1:45AM
The cap is so people can still get *some* Valor points from old raids if they choose to run them, without feeling obligated to run all of them like with Badges of Heroism in TBC.
Lars Petersson Apr 27th 2010 6:25AM
But it will depend on how high the cap is.
There already is a cap, even if it isn't defined as such.
Daily Random*7+VOA 10+VOA 25+ICC 10+ICC 25 +Weekly Raid = Current cap on number of Emblms of Frost you can get. I hope I didn't forget anything.
Presumably they will look at how many frosts you can currently get at a maxumum and do some clever calculations from there...
Now, if only they'd allow my to run the 7 daily randoms in one day or something similar, I'd be so much happier.
Puntable Apr 27th 2010 12:00PM
My guess is it will be something like this for Valor points:
A 25-man raider who does all the current raid content will hit the cap just raiding.
A 10-man raider who does all the current raid content will have to do some heroics to hit the cap.
A casual who just does Heroics will not hit the cap.