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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsCataclysm badge and PvP point changes
by Adam Holisky 
Apr 26th 2010 at 11:24PM
Blizzard just released a lengthy statement on Cataclysm badges and PvP point changes. Badges are going away in Cataclysm. Instead, everything will be point based for both PvE and PvP gear. There will be four types of points earned (two PvE and two PvP):
- Hero Points, Low tier PvE gear
- Valor Points, High tier PvE gear
- Honor Points, Low tier PvP gear
- Conquest Points, High tier PvP gear
Hero points are like the current Emblems of Triumph. Valor Points are like Emblems of Frost, and have a cap on how many you can get each week. Honor Points are like the current Honor Points, and Conquest Points are like the current Arena Points. There will be maximum caps on each sets of points.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Cataclysm Badge and PvP Point ChangesWe're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
PvP
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
- Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
- Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)
PvP
- Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
- Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 7 of 9)
skinny Apr 27th 2010 3:57AM
i like the system to the pvp turn point, however i would like to know what kind of cap the harder pve point system is...because with the current system with tha badges if u do a random for the frost every day for a week thats 14 badges but in 3-4 days of raiding "depending on your guild/pug" u can get 14 plus, and another thing with this change and Cataclysm coming r we going to get another "random raid daily" in are faction towns to go after a boss in a new dungen or raid boss like WOTLK and if not how will this system change the random raid right now, will it just get removed all togeather?
necrosanct Apr 27th 2010 4:16AM
I like this concept but wish they would have just done it with the current emblem system by just converting the previous emblem vendors to the lowest obtainable emblem (Triumph) to get rid of the clunky conversion.
I do hope they have something in store for how tier armor tokens work as the whole class pairing method is just abysmal. They need to get it over with and open the tokens up for all classes to use.
Speaking of abysmal, the whole VoA loot table system needs to be tossed out the window and either put into one or the other but not both. As it stands currently the loot tables are so freaking huge that chances of things being useless especially in 10 person are very high.
Toravon for instance has 118 items (counting mount as 1 here). In 10 person it is like winning the lottery with that many items. They could have gotten away with a 9 token and chance for mount system to cover all the options and just require people to get multiples to trade in for the given PvP/PvE slot piece. This way you still get some reward for your effort as opposed to another week of seeing useless items drop and avoid the issue of having to run it fewer times to get everything you want. The fact that you can't sell any of it for even 5g (tier token price) adds to the torture of it all especially if you lack an enchanter. If they have a VoA style instance in Cataclysm, I surely hope they switch over to something similar.
Bossy Apr 27th 2010 4:47AM
Blizzard listens yes, but it always takes SOOO long.
No doubt due to their polish and testing.
How long ago did we ask to remove those ridiculous ratings on the highest PvP gear?
I guess more than 2 years ago.
We had such a good arena group with friends and a casual set up (2 hunters, 3 pala's) and then it happened: no longer you could farm for weeks a piece of gear (took us around 5 to 6 weeks a piece).
No ... you HAD to be rated above 1800 something, which means of course 80 to 90% of the players couldn't advance anymore;
The guy who invented the rated PvP gear killed Arena play
And now after more than 2 years (after trying lowering the ratings) finally the blizz boys listened.
I think the rated PvP gear must have been one of the worst decisions ever for a subscription based game.
No problem with the few remaining "bragging" pieces (I guess shoulders and a cape).
Players should be MOTIVATED to play, not stopped at a terrible "rating" line.
Finally they changed it. Perhaps too late for a lot of people.
Sturmovic Apr 27th 2010 5:59AM
This is innovative and useful, and therefore I don't like it.
Popidge Apr 27th 2010 6:21AM
Someone else made a fantastic point earlier; This new system complements the new single-shared lockout 10/25 raid system perfectly.
Remember what was said yesterday: 25-man raids will earn more loot/gold/badges per person.
This means that a 25-man raider going through 11 bosses of current tier content will have more Valor points than a 10-man raider who has done the same 11 bosses, on the 10-man version. The 25-man raider will be more likely to have hit his weekly Valor point cap just from that raiding, wheras the 10-man raider will probably have to supplement his raiding with a few random daily heroic runs to hit his valor point cap.
However, the 25-man raider has had to put in the effort to find a group of 24 other players to down those 11 bosses, a tougher feat than putting together a 10-man, therefore both players have put in effort outside the actual downing of the bosses, just in different places.
Both players are putting in roughly equal effort to achieve an equal standing in gear, raiding at equal difficulties. The only difference is in time spent outside of raid. A fantastic tradeoff between making raid composition easier, but spending more time in random Hcs, or downing the "putting together a 25-man raid"-boss and getting your valor point cap purely from raiding.
As well as this, Blizzard have made bridging the 'Gear gap' between tiers a little easier. Previous tier stuff (to gear yourself up for current tier) becomes buyable with Honor points, Current tier with Valor points. Want to get up to scratch with current tier? Easy, run old stuff 'til your eyes bleed. Then you'll be ready for the current tier.
This news put aside any doubts i had about the new raid progression system announced yesterday, you can tell that 2 expansions of development and thought have not gone to waste.
Rajinnu Apr 27th 2010 7:44AM
Awesome, sounds perfect! Lets hope it stays that simple.
As for all the people talking bout 10s and 25s, I can't see why anyone would bother with 25 man raids in Cataclysm after the report that it drops the exact same gear etc
Why bother putting yourself through the hassle of a 25 man group when you can do a 10 and its the same lock out.
Seems like you will get better much control over a top 10 man group to progress quicker and totally ignore 25s now.
dawnseven Apr 27th 2010 8:42AM
See Popidge's post above yours. :) If participating in 25s gets you more badges/points, gold, and loot (not better loot mind you, as you know, but a better chance at getting what drops) then THAT is your incentive to running 25s over 10s. Since the 10s aren't getting as many badges/points they may have to supplement their raiding with heroics to get cap for the week whereas a 25s raider would not.
Blayze Apr 27th 2010 7:46AM
Wonder if the current and BC systems are also going to be changed to this style. I hope so, because then my hundreds of level 70 badges will finally be good for something...
...and I'll be able to buy that damn 200 Emblem of Heroism mammoth.
Strike FreedomX Apr 27th 2010 8:27AM
Pvpers are still getting the short end of the stick. Removing rating requirements? I'm glad any person who plays can get the gear that I've earned. What is to set me apart from the other players now? Just because Blizzard can't get arena right doesn't mean they should just give up on it.
blodphenix Apr 27th 2010 8:59AM
Its cause they outnumber us by alot. Those of us that actually can get what we want through knowing how to play the game because of skill attained through actually learning how. While they just scream across the blizz forums to swing the nerf bat cause they cant down it or "that class is too OP". So they will continue to give to those that dont put forth the effort.
Inc downrated from all of them. . .because its the ugly truth.
Keveline Apr 27th 2010 8:59AM
PvP is not getting the short end of the stick. PvP isn't limited to arena. Why shouldn't people who enjoy battlegrounds but hate arena not be able to get the best gear too?
"What is to set me apart from the other players now?"
Well, presumably, your skill. If all you can do is faceroll players who have worse gear than you I can see your concern. But, if you're a good PvP'er it won't matter that other people have similar gear, you'll still beat them.
warriorpanda Apr 27th 2010 12:16PM
Oh noes! I've a full Wrathful set and 2700 arena rating and now I won't be able to faceroll my way to 30 killing blows in a battleground! I may actually have to use some of those skills I picked up along the way to kill all those baddies! I might even die once or twice when fighting 9 of them at once! This isn't fair at all!
Jack Apr 27th 2010 8:39AM
I understand why Blizz did this, but for me changing from Badges to Points loses a lot of "flavor".
Overall it sounds like a workable and well thought out system.
But my real concern are the caps, both Weekly and Total. I'm sure they have folks crunching the numbers and that those caps will address both the speed at which folks will get gear, and the way in which they will get it. But this seems to cross an otherwise invisible line of number-crunching. I would hate to see folks get "Raid Capped" by Thursday or Friday and then use that as an excuse not to help out folks later in the week because "I won't get any points for that run." (yeah I know, the solution is to not run with that sort of person, but still).
Eastland23 Apr 27th 2010 4:07PM
Ok Jack, enough is enough...
(You're not the only one I'm addressing, but it was fun to say that),
1) There will be a cap on the # of high tier points you can earn in a week. Big deal! There is ALREADY a cap on the number of badges you can earn in a week. As someone above said, "Daily heroic * 7 + VoA10 + VoA25 + ICC10 + ICC25 + Weekly Quest + Raid Quest == Frost Badge Cap". Nothing to see here, folks.
2) There will be a cap on the # of low tier points you can stockpile. This is to keep you from stocking 400 Hero points right before T12 is released and T11 drops to Hero points currency. If you could stockpile this, you would buy all 4 pieces and accessories on Tuesday afternoon. That's not cool. This is a good change, not a bad one. It keeps you playing the game and gives you something to work for.
3) For EVERYONE who is MISSING THE POINT.. there is NO cap to how quickly you can earn or SPEND the points! Who cares if there is a cap on the # of hero points you can hold onto, just go buy a piece and then keep running heroic dungeons to your heart's content. Then buy another piece and keep going. It should take you no longer to get those heirlooms and crusader orbs than it does right now. You just have to visit the vendor between PuGs.
Sheesh!
blodphenix Apr 27th 2010 8:42AM
I hold judgement on the points system for raiding cause its going to weigh itself either way due to limitations. But as for pvp. . .
" We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items."
Shows that they recognize a definate flaw in the system for pvp because it exposes them to the idea of people that just run bots. I hate bots. But it happens. Without limits for access on items it may encourage those ignorant people to run their bots to get points cap for the week without the effort of doing it themselves.
Carson Apr 27th 2010 8:50AM
I like it. It's not HUGELY different from the current system, but so cleaned up and streamlined; and the few significant changes are all for the better, e.g. not having to do every single raid and daily heroic to maximise your badges, rated BGs and arena being equalized.
The point conversion when new tiers of gear are released is a lot cleaner than the current system of adding more and more badge types (here's hoping that as new gear gets added to the hero point/honor point vendors, it's actually more expensive that the older, lesser gear).
The exchange between hero and honor points looks much cleaner than the current ad-hoc mess where you can get some PvP pieces for PvE emblems.. but not all.. and nothing really going in the opposite direction (unlike TBC where at least PvP weapons were a useful option for PvE).
Keveline Apr 27th 2010 8:53AM
This. Is. Awesome.
I'm very tired of looking at the more or less useless low level badges in my bag. Having only 2 sets that scale with newly released gear levels is awesome, as is the automatic downgrading of the high level badges to the low. No more obsolete badges!
I also love the idea of removing the personal rating from the PvP gear. I'm sure there will be some incoming QQ from the 1337 arena players complaining about "welfare gear for bads" just like there were similar complaints of welfare epics for PvE, but this is a great change.
sgt_goodspeed Apr 27th 2010 9:01AM
I agree to a previous post on the fact of not having to log in everyday to do a daily. Why not implement a system where as the first 7 random dungeons you do gives you the badges you want. Instead of being forced to log in everyday to do a "daily". It is somewhat discouraging when only the people that play EVERYDAY thrive in both pve and pvp. Though people like myself who play a few days a week - pay EXACTLY the same cost a month - as the people that play 80 hours a week. What I mean by the current and new system, if i read it right, is that unless you log on everyday to do your daily - you will never be able to keep up with those that do. This is unfair - and as I stated above - discouraging. If I cannot push content as fast as others when im on 3 or 4 days a week, then the game is not fun. It sucks to lose all the time, to sit out because you are not online 24/7/365.
Anyways, I do like the fact that there will be a way to convert points into points even if it is for a loss. Sometimes it is fun to just pve with your friends even if you prefer pvp. With this new system this can be done by benefiting both the pve fond person and the pvp guy. And vice versa.
Question is: you say
"this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all."
Will we be able to earn all the weeks worth of Valor from the Dungeon Finder in one day? Or are we still forced to log on every day? If so, WHY? Why not benefit both those that can and cannot log on everyday equally? Or at least more fairly?
Recubi Apr 27th 2010 9:10AM
So you are saying you want everything that the "hardcore have" but put forth less effort then they do. Gotcha.
sgt_goodspeed Apr 27th 2010 10:00AM
Sigh. I want to experience the game to its fullest without being limited because I only play 20hrs a week as opposed to 80. 20hrs a week is enough. Has nothing to do with "effort". It has to do with people pay the same amount of money to play the game, whether they play 20 or 80 hours a week. It is not saying that those that play more should and will see more content. That is apparent. And they deserve to. Not everyone can get on 4 nights a week for 6 straight hours each night to reach the "cap" of Valor you can get from raiding. The "cap" should be reachable in other means. People that play more or, in your terms put in more "effort", already benefit enough. They have a vast supply of gear that drops from their raids. So how bout lets keep points gear available to everyone, and not only the "hardcore". Points gear should be equally attainable by someone that puts in 20hrs a week to someone that puts in 80.
/em waits for more comments from the "hardcore".
Not attacking those that play everyday in anyway. Just saying that we shouldn't have to log on everyday and be limited to 2 badges / (w/e the points will be). If you can clear a dungeon in 1 day and receive that weeks badges / points cap. Then you should be able to run dungeons all day to receive the same cap. If pvp points can be (if i read it right) capped from both bg's and arena (they share the same points right?) than pve points should be able to as well. Though unless I read it wrong, it doesn't look like that will be the case. You can do as many rated bg's as you want and continue to earn up to the max conquest points. Pve doesnt work the same way. From the post above you can only run the daily heroic for the points, then must raid. Both pve and pvp higher tier have a weeks cap. Though pvp point max is attainable by running constant rated bgs.
PVP & PVE points should work the same. You should be able to run dungeons all day (just like run rated bg's all day) for points until you reach the max if that is how you wish.
Blizz says: a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
So make it so we can decide to NOT raid and still get the points we want in pve.