Cataclysm badge and PvP point changes

Blizzard just released a lengthy statement on Cataclysm badges and PvP point changes. Badges are going away in Cataclysm. Instead, everything will be point based for both PvE and PvP gear. There will be four types of points earned (two PvE and two PvP):
- Hero Points, Low tier PvE gear
- Valor Points, High tier PvE gear
- Honor Points, Low tier PvP gear
- Conquest Points, High tier PvP gear
Hero points are like the current Emblems of Triumph. Valor Points are like Emblems of Frost, and have a cap on how many you can get each week. Honor Points are like the current Honor Points, and Conquest Points are like the current Arena Points. There will be maximum caps on each sets of points.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Cataclysm Badge and PvP Point ChangesWe're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
PvP
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
- Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
- Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)
PvP
- Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
- Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 8 of 9)
Darkseid Apr 27th 2010 10:01AM
@ Recubi: Yeah, thats pretty much it. And even as a casual player myself, I can see that this is the direction Blizz is heading. Casual players out number hardcore players by A LOT, so Blizz is leaning more in the casual direction. But as I've said many times, EVEN AS A CASUAL PLAYER, even I think they are going a little too far.
I don't care enough(to put in the time or effort) about the game to have best in slot gear in every spot. So why should I have the same gear as someone who does.
Darkseid Apr 27th 2010 10:21AM
@sgt goodspeed: Help me understand what your saying. Cause there aren't too many games that I know of where a person who plays half as much as someone else, still gets as much out of it. If I don't put as much time, effort, or interest into a game that someone else does, then by all rights, I shouldn't get as much out of it.
Example: If I play through Mass Effect 2 in 30 hours just to get to the end, then I'm not going to get as much out of it as someone who spent 50+ hours exploring ever bit of the game. Thats the way it is with pretty much EVERY game.
How is that unfair to me? It was my choice or my lack of time/interest, not to put in as much time, and its not the fault of the people who do want to. I hate elitist as much as the next guy, but it doesn't make these people elites, for wanting another person to work as hard as they did to get gear or see the end game.
RPGs, and games in general we're meant to be all inclusive for ALL content. Yes, anyone can pick them up and play, but not everyone will get the same out of them.
Duncan Apr 27th 2010 11:28AM
@ Recubi
that's not what he is saying. he is saying you shouldn't have to log in EVERYDAY. If it takes 20 hours a week to hit the point cap you can put those hours in in 2 or 3 days and not be FORCED to play everyday to accomplish that.
Recubi Apr 27th 2010 11:52AM
Exactly my point. . .why do people feel it necessary to be able to attain as gear as fast as we do. "well the raiders were in full t 10 weeks before i was. . QQ" well duh. . its because we put the time and effort to do so. Its supposed to take longer for you. . if you feel that you have to log in everyday because if you dont you miss out on gains just because you wont be the same as us well thats your problem and your flaw.
John Apr 27th 2010 9:04AM
Badges of justice are not useless:
They're pretty handy for getting gems to cut and level JC.
So will emblems of triumph/conquest/etc. be after Cata.
Kittrell Apr 27th 2010 9:35AM
As a casual player, one of the aspects of the game that I felt needed some attention was access to better weapons along with the better gear that can be obtained via badges and BG Honor. The grind for Triumph and Frost badges has added a whole new dimension for players like myself...but better weaponry is still next to impossible without an arena team. So there I am running through battlegrounds with ilvl 232+ gear and a Titansteel Destroyer...ha These changes will mean a lot for the mass of players (silent majority if you will) that do not visit 10/25 man on a regular basis.
Darkseid Apr 27th 2010 9:54AM
I don't really see much change here. I keep seeing people say its "smoother, more streamlined, etc", but I'm not seeing it. Other than not having to convert your badges just to buy heirlooms, whats really changing that going to make life SOOOO much easier?
I'm always open to clarification if I'm missing something, but as it stands, this seems like I'll be using a dollar bill to buy something instead of 4 quarters....different, but still the same.
And why make mention of this "cap" per week. Theres more or less a soft "cap" on how many frost you can earn in a given week as is, so why put that out there for the worrying types to have one more change to stress over. With only being able to run the 10 or 25 of a raid per week, there was only so much people could earn of the top teir badges..ah...err....'points' anyway, so save the people some sleepless nights, and leave off the "cap" talk. lol
caniscreem Apr 27th 2010 10:11AM
While I don't mind the idea that everyone can get a certain level of gear, the movement towards giving less reward to those that play on a more serious level is a little demeaning. When Blizz introduced 10mans and then the hard vs. normal modes of raiding and 5mans it allowed for separation between your casual player and your hardcore raider. The most important aspect of this was allowing the whole community to see the content the game has to offer.
My real issue with this though is PvP. Of course half the posters here are thrilled that there is no longer a rating requirement! It gives whole new meaning to "welfare epix." Some of us enjoy that next level of play in arena and the rewards it has to offer. Even now you can still acquire pvp gear through the precious badge system, and there are plenty of attainable pvp pieces without rating reqs. To take the top tier of it and get rid of rating requirement though is just taking that end of the game from players who enjoy it and tossing it to the masses.
I see the comment "I pay the same 15 bucks a month as you, why should I see or do less because I can only log in a few hours." There is so much wrong with this statement. When you say it in terms of gear and content it kind of sounds like a decent argument, but you'd never say that about currency or any other earned items? If thats an argument, should you just get an allowance of gold everyday? While we're at it, maybe everyone should get a chance to pick a free piece of gear once a week.
This game is based on progression of character, of self, and of the adventures you choose to go on with the people you play with. Ruining that by homogenizing that progression takes flavor from the differences in the community.
rukamich Apr 27th 2010 11:17AM
I've played this game for 5+ years, had to endure hours and hours and MONTHS of work to move up in the old PVP ranks to get the best gear possible, it was hard, it could be demoralizing and agonizing, but in the end, it was fun to have the best gear and the shiniest titles. So I ask YOU, why do you think that your playing of 10 matches a week should yield YOU better gear than someone like myself who would rather spend the time in a BG fighting more than 5 people-MAX?
Not everyone LIKES Arena, but they like (or tolerate...) WoW's BG system. That doesn't make them less dedicated OR less worthy of the best PVP gear, just like folks who can't raid for hours a week, week AFTER week aren't less worthy of gear that they work just as hard for (tho at a smaller ratio of time & output than raiders).
If you want the best gear first, you'll still GET it, it was stated in the post that arena players would get gear faster. God forbid, tho, you won't be the ONLY one with it. Blizzard has nerfed the game so very very much in order to get EVERYONE to end-game, and they realize that in order to keep everyone playing, everyone needs the possibility to get the end-game gear. Personally, I liked leveling slower, cos level 80 is boring as fsk if yer a person in my position (night worker on servers where NO ONE is raiding at 8 AM est), the possibility of getting end-game gear in a "points" fashion is welcomed change.
*shrugs* Course I'm the type to whip out collector's edition pets and long-retired PVP titles whenever I see the "leet" players linking their badass *nerfed* raid gear/titles, so the tears of this change will be delicious once the new system goes live.
warriorpanda Apr 27th 2010 12:10PM
I don't understand this sentiment at all.
I play Arena and, to a lesser extent, BG's for the challenge. Human players aren't scripted (although I imagine 80% of the tards in AV would be much better if they were), there are greater asymmetries in composition and spec and numbers, etc etc. It's interesting.
It's not interesting, nor challenging, when I two-shot the poor tree with 1600 hp. Neither is it interesting, nor challenging, when I am two-shot on an alt I'm trying to gear up. My Pally hit 80 yesterday, and now it's a respec to Holy and chain heroics until I can get a full Furious set, because otherwise, what's the point? PVE to PVP ... yeah, that makes sense.
These hardcore PVPers are always going on about how damn SKILLED they are, and how arena is all about SKILL instead of stepping out of the fire or whatever. So why are they getting their shorts in a bundle over welfare epics? It's not like Blizz is selling SKILL for 80 Conquest points or whatever. The best players will still be able to dominate the weaker ones. Now the weaker ones just lose the excuse of "he's got much better gear than I do."
Win-win, I say.
Karyx Apr 27th 2010 10:18AM
I can only hope that blizzard will finally start scaling back point/emblem cost as better/more expensive gear comes into play, because honestly how many of you hitting fresh 80 on alts are going to scale your triumphs into conquests and buy t8 gear for 2 emblems shy of t9. More old content and flavor would be sampled if we had a reason to do it, but stop making old outdated gear such a pain, in badges and time, to obtain and let those fresh 80's see what we used to drop yogg for the first time.
Jack Apr 27th 2010 10:18AM
Like it and this give people that got alts like me more time to gear up as well! without the others running all content in out before I get it it!
OldManDeath Apr 27th 2010 10:27AM
The only concerns I have are:
1. Will this make the queue time much longer, especially for the strictly DPS classes/specs? I suspect it will because the strictly raider people will no longer need to run heroics.
2. Is the total amount of points you can carry going to be capped like they currently are for honor points? I feel they should not as currently, that I am aware of and I may be mistaken, there is not a limit on the amount of emblems you can have.
Overall, I think it is a much simpler process and will simplify buying heirloom items as you will not have to step down up to 3 levels.
Telwar Apr 27th 2010 12:11PM
I don't think queue time will be all that much longer, as the raiding dps will also be less frequently in queue, so their spots will be open.
I also don't think a cap on pve points will be a big deal. The cap will necessarily be more than the cost of the most expensive item. Also, that just means you'll buy items one at a time, like you do now.
StoNe Apr 27th 2010 10:33AM
My only concerns / thoughts / rants...
1) Points sounds crap : ) They could keep the term 'badges' with this new system. Only reason they'd need points, if they break them down ie: 1 badge = 1000 points.
1000 points per boss kill, 1500 points for a full wing clear, 20 points per trash etc...
2) I'm still seeing dailies and running heroics 7 days a week. To me, as I read it, this new system only benefits hard core raiders who may do a full clear of the highest tier. They have the option to skip randoms 7 days a week. It'd be nice if casuals who do need to get thier badges via dailies can accumulate the 7 badges over 5 days of doing randoms, leaving weekends free for other things.
3) Will we see less people running heroics? Longer queue? Will we no longer see geared individuals runnnig heroics? On the plus side, those that need the points may get a full instance clear instead of skipping to last boss. But I think we'll see a lot more pugs struggling.
4) They mentioned moving valor points to heroism per tier release, I assume that means moving the previous valor gear also into heroism?
5) 10/25 shared lockout + new points system. I still see no attempt to correct what Blizzard broke in Wrath when it comes to earlier tier dungeons. We ran Kara until the 11th hour to get badges in the last EP. Blizz need to maintain some sort of incentive to return to earlier raids ie: Ulder, Naxx etc...
TBH, I hope they keep the same system of points for all future expansions also. It's silly seeing useless things in the game like Badges of Justice and that lvl 70 gear vendor in Shat.
rukamich Apr 27th 2010 11:09AM
Thank god. As a vanilla-era PVPer, I loathed Arenas and refused to step into them as I just hated the idea of glorified dueling for better gear (much like I hated dueling for rank before BGs...), and I drew disgruntled with PVP/BGs when Arena players came in and wrecked the place just because they had better gear.
Now, I can go back to PVPing and earn the top-tier stuff without having to step into Arenas, and perhaps enjoy BGs again instead of just not playing at all.
Plus, it'll be nice to hear the Arena-lizards whining about how "easy" it is to get the best gear--much like some of us old-timers did when Blizz got rid of the ranking system-for-gear. lol
Philip Apr 27th 2010 11:04AM
If you build something so simple that even a fool can use it, eventually only fools will. - Isaac Asimov
Ben Apr 27th 2010 11:22AM
PVE-ers still get to progress and get better gear by doing better. PVP-ers now all get the same gear just for logging in. Zero incentive to improve. As an avid PVP-er, I hate these changes from the bottom of my black heart. Subscription cancellation inc.
Daethar Apr 27th 2010 11:44AM
Oh stop crying already. Do you know how many times I've seen someone high rated take off their top pvp gear and still wreck other players in duels?
Arena PvP is largely determined by skill, and not who has the gear with the 10 extra of a stat.
Conversely, if you really, truly think that you are more skilled than people, then PvP gear being equalized should not matter. You're more skilled than they are, right? Therefore with the same gear you should be able to continue beating them, right? This puts an end to being carried for higher rating, and really only people being carried should have any reason to worry because they will no longer outgear people of EQUAL skill.
Tank Apr 27th 2010 11:48AM
Capping Seems to pander to the “casual players” who don’t put nearly the time or effort into their toon on a level field with hardcore players who plays many hours each day. Sounds fair (Insert sarcasm here) I’m shocked to look like the minority with most of the changes to lockouts and badges unwelcome…