Cataclysm badge and PvP point changes

Blizzard just released a lengthy statement on Cataclysm badges and PvP point changes. Badges are going away in Cataclysm. Instead, everything will be point based for both PvE and PvP gear. There will be four types of points earned (two PvE and two PvP):
- Hero Points, Low tier PvE gear
- Valor Points, High tier PvE gear
- Honor Points, Low tier PvP gear
- Conquest Points, High tier PvP gear
Hero points are like the current Emblems of Triumph. Valor Points are like Emblems of Frost, and have a cap on how many you can get each week. Honor Points are like the current Honor Points, and Conquest Points are like the current Arena Points. There will be maximum caps on each sets of points.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Personal ratings will be removed from almost all items, including weapons.
Blizzard's full statement after the break.
Cataclysm Badge and PvP Point ChangesWe're continuing to refine the badge/emblem and PvP point systems in Cataclysm and we'd like to share some of those changes with you today. Please enjoy!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
PvP
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Our primary goal when approaching badges in Cataclysm is to address a lot of the confusion that comes with these currency systems. To that end we're changing badges to a more straightforward point system, similar to the ones we've used for a while for Arenas and Battlegrounds. There will be a total of four types of points you can earn in Cataclysm (two for PvE and two for PvP), and these will remain the same even as we introduce new content.
Here's the breakdown:
PvE
- Hero Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most dungeons. (most like the current Emblem of Triumph)
- Valor Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvE points. Maximum cap to how many you can own, as well as a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from Dungeon Finder daily Heroic and from raids. (most like the current Emblem of Frost)
PvP
- Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
- Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
As noted for Conquest points, the Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas will be sharing this same point type. Because of that, it will in fact be possible to get the best PvP items without setting foot in Arena; however, more powerful armor and weapons will of course require more Conquest points, so players who win their matches more often will still gear up faster. We're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items. And you'll have the option of purchasing the previous season's gear with the more readily available Honor points.
We do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
To explain the reasoning for the weekly cap on points for the higher tiers, this is to provide flexibility in how players choose to earn the points without feeling like they have to do all of the content as often as it is available. If your Valor income from raiding is sufficient, you may not feel the need to run Dungeon Finder every night, or perhaps even at all. Likewise, a PvP player could choose to participate in a lot of Rated Battlegrounds but no Arenas, or focus on both, and still be able to earn the points they want.
We realize that with any changes to progression pathways there are going to be questions. We're eagerly awaiting any that we may have left unanswered. To the comments!
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 9 of 9)
Puntable Apr 27th 2010 12:21PM
I see it as the opposite.
My Main used to run 25-man ICC and 10-man ICC and 25-VOA and 1 Heroic every day, so he could get Frost faster, to help the guild progress. It was too much. I'll be glad to do weekly Raiding with my main, and then be able to switch to my alts to do Heroics.
armi0022 Apr 27th 2010 11:48AM
I am aware that arena requires skill and awareness to succeed. Large scale battlegrounds doesn't require as much. All gear is available. What am I striving to achieve? Nothing.
You act as if Raiders wouldn't cry if you get could every piece of ICC gear from running heroics right now. Same thing!
Daethar Apr 27th 2010 12:04PM
That is a valid point. However, I would like to offer this as a rebuttal:
Battlegrounds as they are NOW don't require as much, because you still get honor for losing, and you can still get a ton of honor from WG quests, daily battleground (or formerly Call to Arms), etc.
These points would only be available in RATED BATTLEGROUNDS. Like, you know, those things that are COMPLETELY NEW and, one would logically assume, would be like arenas in that you aren't rewarded for losing them. This would lead people to run pre-made battleground groups for a better chance of winning. If you have ever queued up into a random battleground and had to contend with a pre-made group on the other team, many from the same guild, then you realize that putting together a skilled and coordinated team lets you completely control the BG. So therefore, you ARE striving to achieve something, because with rated battleground either:
1) You will NEED to register a pre-made team, just like arenas
or...
2) You will NEED to use a pre-made team, just to compete
or...
3) You will stay on the bottom barrel and continue earning the bare minimum points for any rated BGs you join
In any case, your concerns only hold up if Blizzard allows the losing team in a rated BG to earn points, or keeps the points like BGs do now instead of the Arena rating system. Both of these sound ridiculous. I think you are jumping the gun in assuming you will get the higher tier rewards for what, as you have described, is exactly like the old, lower tier BG system.
protopethunter Apr 27th 2010 4:46PM
We dont need no stinkin' badges!
taijathehuntress Apr 27th 2010 12:00PM
How about this instead Blizz. When the new set of pvp gear is released, your old gear gets traded in for points towards the new set, instead of us having to delete armor we busted our asses for.
Honestley thats the one thing I have never seen them address. You spend 2 months say getting the top BG pvp gear, gem and enchant it all up to stay current. When the season changes, the new tier set for bg's comes out, and your old gear is throw away, can't be disenchanted, traded for value towards the new set, it's just delete trash.
that sucks.
Strike FreedomX Apr 27th 2010 12:51PM
Wouldn't pvers complain if you could get the best gear from badges? It's the same basic idea. Battlegrounds aren't a haven of skill. Most of the time they don't even require a difficult strategy, i.e. one team zergs from one place to another, and can often win the other side.
Let me put it like this, players who can't kill bosses shouldn't get loot, pvpers who can't break a certain rating shouldn't get pvp gear. There has to be bias in the system, or it's killing it all together.
Candy Man Apr 27th 2010 1:05PM
The point caps have nothing to do with player "complaints" about obligatory heroic runs to keep up with the Joneses badge-wise and everything to do with slowing down toon progression. Some players grind content for badges/gear because they like the game and want to progress as fast as possible. I'm sure alot of these players get through the content/gear they want to see and then take off until the next content patch arrives, often by suspending their accounts. That's lost money to Blizzard, friends, and a loyal customer out the door to explore other MMOs. Blizzard no likey lose money.
The current system in place already has a limit on possible Frost badges per week - the total available content that offers Frost badges (assuming full clears). What about this needs refining? Whose gameplay is negatively affected by the .1% of players that clear all available Frost content each week - the other .1% of players that want to but can't for some reason?
This whole point cap (just like gated raid access) is all about extending the lifecycle of new content, i.e. increasing revenues for each new patch or expansion. It's the only way to get "growth" for a product that has essentially capped-out on its subscriber base.
Holyray Apr 27th 2010 1:30PM
I may have missed these in the article or someone may have already asked but I have a few questions: If there's a cap on how many valor points we can get a week but we can reach that limit by just doing a portion of the stuff that gives you the points what do we get for doing high end raids after we have already reached the valor points cap? i.e. if i have the gear drops from high end raids and I've maxed my weekly points earnings through other means is there any point (other than the experience) in me doing these raids? Can I max out my earnings through just doing hcs? or to get max do I have to do some raiding?
OldManDeath Apr 27th 2010 1:56PM
The concern I have with the cap issue, is that some people do not want to be bound to buying a single item at a time. Currently I am saving frost emblems to get the next 2 pieces of my healing T10 4 piece set. If I were to buy a single piece and replace it, then I would lose the additional 2 piece bonus from my T9 set.
Sure, I could buy the item and hold on to it until I had the 2nd piece. However, I keep sets of older gear and holiday gear, fun stuff, mats, etc, so my bag space gets limited.
The other part...As in the title of my "handle", my older memory is not as good as it used to be, so as with honor points, I sometimes forget to spend them when they get to the cap, so I end up running and losing out. With a limit per week on how many you can acquire, if I forget to spend them, then I really lose out for a whole week.
I am not opposed to a limit really, but I think it should be much more than the cost of a single item. It should cover a full tier set IMHO. :)
tfwagner2001 Apr 27th 2010 2:44PM
Now that I see this weekly PVE cap, can we get rid of lockouts altogether?
oowxam Apr 27th 2010 4:09PM
I am surprised, and to be honest, saddened.
I enjoyed badges, and having numbers one can easily work with...
I guess it's not too different, but "points" does sound quite bland.
Conquest points - I don't know, I feel as if personal rating and Arena Points should stay with arenas, although I don't mind the daily 25 : P.
I feel you must devote yourself to PvP to become worthy in PvP, and the entitled casual run was nice, but the direction cataclysm has been going simplifying and befriending the EC feels too simple, and less from the more devoted players in the game. It's like WoW has been dating the EC lately, but cata looks like they're going to marry >.>
Hagu Apr 27th 2010 5:32PM
A clear improvement. I really like it.
Kojaq Apr 27th 2010 8:23PM
Just want to throw it out there, but doesn't the Arena Tournament Realms auto start you with the best gear on a max character? In not, then I apologize for my ignorance.
If so, I want to know of those people who play on those realms (as it seems that they are the ones more dedicated to Arena Pvp) if the incentive of better gear outside that Tournament Realm is really all that important to you.
To me its sorta like any FPS I play. I have access to the same types of guns on either team, but I still get rolfstomped cause I suck at FPS games, but at least I know I have worse gear. It's just cause I was bad at it.
If anything I feel that the 'level' playing field will discourage bad players from continuing to play because they finally wake up and realize that they actually really suck and it's not because 'the other team had better gear'. Thereby slowly making the Pvp self-regulate itself to cater to the 'hardcore' or better players.
But what do I know. I'm a baddie.
RomanVS01 Apr 27th 2010 8:29PM
hmm..could this herald a sort of death of damned Gearscore with no personal rating's on gear?..I'm so tired *sob* of seeing you have to have 4k dps to do a naxx run,where u kill 1 boss...then leave,and the people that you even GO with are strangers...
Gyussz Apr 28th 2010 5:28AM
I don't wanna misunderstood, correct me if i'm wrong:
patch 4.0: blue gear for hero points, tier 11 for valor points
patch 4.1: tier 11 for hero points, tier 12 for valor points
etc. Sounds good imho
Akatoomb May 1st 2010 3:17AM
WOW! I can't wait!!! The slate has been wiped clean for pvpers!!! I can have fun in BGs and not have to worry about dual speccing for arena AND BG's, and still get the elite gear! Awesome move Blizz! And BG's should have a lot more competent players now, with the rated system in effect. Woot!
Darkshivers May 1st 2010 10:26PM
Next i wish they would implememt a way for lvl 75 - 85 to get something useful from the Badges of Justices. it was nice that they did this and the change over to honor for BG awhile back. now they just need to help us get rid of those badges ppl collected before wrath came out and lvling through BC got easier.
QQinsider May 3rd 2010 9:59AM
What are you talking about? The ilevel 141 BoJ gear is as good as or better than anything you can easily get your hands on before L78-80. Most of the pieces I had didn't get replaced until L80. That's not useful?
If you expect to get L80+ gear for badges from the last expansion (and which can now be easily soloed by some classes) then you're living in a dream world.
orinok Jul 25th 2010 8:24PM
honestly, i think those changes will be great but, the only problem i see with this is the pvp part. i have been doing arena a lot and personally, it's the thing i enjoy the most in wow. removing the rating on the gear seem just unfair since it completely remove the rewards arena give.