The danger of looking backward

The disconnect there seems to be fairly simple once you move beyond the specific arguments. People keep asking for a tool or tools to make a style of tanking more easily achieved that has been directly stated to be something that we will not be doing in the future. Unlike in real history, where things unfold with no true way to have any sort of advance warning (the best you can do is prognosticate based on trends), game design has actual, stated design goals. While it's certainly true that things do not actually go as planned in anything like a perfect way, trying to lobby for the inclusion of tools to help you perform better at a task that is one the designers are trying to cut back on is not only counterproductive, it's also myopic.
This goes for any role -- AoE damage, healing, what have you -- as we go forward. When the stated goal is to encourage single-target DPS on pulls that aren't specifically "many whelps"-style trash swarms, asking for more big AoE damage doesn't make sense; they're trying to encourage the use of single-target spells, they've said so, the last thing they're going to do is give you "Firesleet Conflagration" that hits everything for tons of fire and frost damage. If they want to encourage healers to watch their mana bars and use a variety of healing spells, not just their biggest spells, they're hardly going to give them a huge, mana-friendly bomb of a healing spell that they can just spam all day.
The difficulty for us as players here is that we have only our previous experience of the game (sometimes up to five or more years of said experience) to guide us. The developers can tell us, "Well, you won't be using that as much in Cataclysm," all that they like. It's hard for us to look back at the history of the game and believe them, especially when we've been given few specifics to take apart yet. For myself, I remember when I had to stance dance to battle in order to throw a Thunder Clap off to slow a boss' melee swings, or hit three or four mobs at most to try and get them to stay on me when tabbing furiously and hitting Sunder (before Devastate even existed yet) to try and build some AoE threat. The beginning of Burning Crusade and the horribly broken way they implemented rage normalization has never left me. Three years later, it still stands out as having been so bad that I nearly quit the game altogether. It's very tempting to assume that the new rage normalization coming in Cataclysm will be just as bad.
It's a tendency that is understandable and to some degree impossible to fully stop, but we have to keep it under control. We don't know what the new healing mechanics will play out like, we don't know how DPS rotations will look, we don't know how pulls will play out in the new dungeons. We don't know if we'll be happy with the way rage works, we don't know if blood as the only DK tanking spec will be a blessing or a curse. As players, we have to resist clamoring for solutions to situations that we've come upon in the past and prepare for problems we don't even know we'll have yet.
Insisting for solutions that make a style of play we're not even going to have in the future won't get us anywhere. We have to prepare for the expansion at hand, not the one we just had. It may turn out that we'll have all the AoE threat we could possibly need but need a short-term cooldown to deal with increased damage from harder-hitting single mobs. We might need a spell that helps deal with burning too much mana while healing both a single target who is taking big amounts of damage and also a raid that is taking reliable amounts of small damage. We might need spells that help bridge the gap between single-target and AoE situations for fights where many adds spawn and its too much of a mana drain to switch tactics. We don't yet know. But asking for abilities to let us do what we know we're being encouraged not to do is completely counterproductive and nonsensical. Now is the time to look forward.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Cataclysm






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
MusedMoose Apr 26th 2010 7:07PM
Thank you, Mr. Rossi; I wish more people thought like this. The fact that not enough do is part of why I avoid the official forums.
One of the only Cataclysm announcements that made me upset was the announcement of Blood as the DK tanking tree. I've never tanked in my life, and I've come to absolutely love playing a Blood DK. (Hell, I'm even collecting red mounts.) I could rant and rail against Blizzard and beg for talents in the Blood tree to make my DPS suitable so that I could continue as I'm currently playing. But I won't.
Instead, I'm making sure to hold on to any one-handed DPS weapons I manage to greed in my dungeon runs, and looking forward to learning how to blood-tank. I might not like it. But there will always be Frost, and I like dual-wielding anyway. And who knows? Blood spec could be what finally gets me to do something other than DPS.
Narayana Apr 26th 2010 8:22PM
This is a great post! It addresses pretty much every problem I have had with analysis up to this point. So much of the analysis has been looking at new spells in the context of the current game. It's important to keep an open mind when looking into the future of the game.
jten11 Apr 26th 2010 9:08PM
@ Narayana:
"So much of the analysis has been looking at new spells in the context of the current game. It's important to keep an open mind when looking into the future of the game."
Exactly!
It's funny and kinda sad how people go bananas when new info comes out and compare it to things that's happening in WotLK; the main reason I avoid the official forums. For now we have VERY little info on everything cata. We just got info on class changes and even those aren't concrete. It's always best to have an open mind because the way you play now may change drastically come cataclysm. And who knows you might actually like the change (if not, well Blizz cant please everyone)
Zanathos Apr 27th 2010 1:42AM
Those who were playing at the end of BC might remember the storm on the forums about potions being changed to only work once per combat (called potion sickness at the time). Since raiding at the time involved mana users chugging a potion every cooldown, conventional wisdom was that this would make healing and mana based dps useless. And yet, running out of mana was barely a concern at all in pve.
Gamer am I Apr 26th 2010 7:08PM
Here here. There needs to be a tag for articles like this; perhaps "Calm the hell down."
busuan Apr 26th 2010 7:28PM
Cataclysm is upon Azeroth....calm what down?
swimstarguy Apr 26th 2010 7:33PM
There needs to be reply options like that, here and the forums as well
-thumb up
-thumb down
-calm the crap down, seriously
BioHazard Apr 26th 2010 7:11PM
I still don't understand why other Warriors are so upset about AoE tanking. I've been Warrior tanking all through WotLK, I've done almost every bit of content in the whole expansion, (there's a bit left in ICC that I haven't done yet) and I have never had a real, honest-to-goodness threat problem. I'm not even uber geared or anything.
Sure, sometimes that first Shield Slam misses or one of the DPS gets some (un)lucky huge cooldown-induced crits right off the bat, but in almost all situations, I've been holding threat fine. In fact, after these last couple buffs in 3.3.3, I've been tanking the bajeezus out of everything and people want /more/?
Am I missing something?
Kards Apr 27th 2010 6:27PM
They just have Pally Envy.
jtrain Apr 26th 2010 9:33PM
Kards is actually right. I agree that warrior AoE tanking is fine. I wasn't convinced at first, but once I actually practiced a little and worked at it, I don't have a problem AoE tanking at all. In fact, I'd say current warrior AoE tanking is damn near perfect. It's challenging enough to not be mindless, but easy enough that you're not sweating bullets on every pull.
The simple fact is that other tanking classes can hold AoE aggro easier, and that fact along has warrior tanks clamoring for a buff. With the changes in Cata away from mindless AoE tanking, I think warriors will have less reason to be envious of the other tanking classes.
Jamie Apr 26th 2010 10:06PM
@jtrain: I completely agree as both a warrior & paladin tank, I really do feel like warriors get the more challenging (albeit frustrating at times) experience.
Paladin tanking is very easy in the current game model, which is fine, but if I want to feel like I'm tanking I'll still with warrior thanks :).
Darkseid Apr 27th 2010 11:34AM
I don't know what warrior tanks have to complain about. People love them. In most cases the only think people miss between warrior tanks and pally tanks is the pally buffs.
Hell, to be honest, most people are just happy if the tank isn't a DK tank!
Daniel Apr 26th 2010 7:17PM
And yet the counterpoint to what you just said is that Blizzard shouldn't be releasing any information at all. It seems to me that Blizzard is not only trying to convey information but also to control the message. There isn't anything per se wrong with that. But the question then becomes is letting out information in drips the best way to control the message.
When a company releases information in bits and pieces people are going to speculate. That's just human nature. Some of that speculation is going to be counterproductive and plain wrong. But what's the alternative? The alternative is for Blizzard to just shut up. I don't think most people want that. At least I know I don't.
I really don't understand the constant fretting about players being off message. Relax. Chill. Calm down. It's normal. Blizzard doesn't get bugged out about it so why should anyone else.
Muse Apr 26th 2010 7:20PM
Nah, that would be too sensible. Lets all just jump to conclusions and work up steam like we usually do.
MusedMoose Apr 26th 2010 7:29PM
Kind of makes me wish the steam built up from arguing on the internet could be converted into actual steam. Gaming forums alone could solve the energy crisis.
^_^
Tooay Apr 26th 2010 7:41PM
All that heat will do nothing good against global warming, though.
Broken_toes Apr 26th 2010 7:36PM
This AOE tanking jazz is basically down to the cycle we are in on WoW, the 5 man HC's were never intended to be played the way they were in BC.
You can enter a wrath hc in 80 blues and be ok, you can enter them and get more than just one emblem.
i was never really bothered with end game BC, I came in late and can think of better things to do than the grind it took from fresh 70 till being able to do end game raid (lets be honest it was a grind)
What we have now is a more accessible end game, as a result the 5 mans are basically just pull it and f it, well thats the presumption less your healer/tank is fresh 80. Anyone who's been playing for a bit has a few 80's - it's basically just assumed the majority of runs you can safely pull stupid amounts- 5 man is meaningless now except for emblems.
I've noticed the newer ICC 5 mans have addressed the issue, from a tanks standpoint, in that you have caster mobs that do decent enough damage so that they are a issue. Especially when the huntard insists on attacking them. It still isn't in the league where a sheep is required- just the tank has to press more buttons and hate DPS more.
Playing as a tank I can honestly say harder pulls ain't really much fun, from first hand experience I can also say- DPS do not respect that its a harder pull.
Right now you can run a pug ICC raid group where the DPS whine about bigger pulls so they can AoE it to buggery (they will also whine when they over aggro and get one shotted).
With the gear we have and the DPS that can be produced, even if you let your cat play while you take a piss, AoE tanking is what is required. It's a direct result of making the end raid as accessible as it is- which I for one think is a good thing, I thought BC was crap mainly because I didn't want to spend hours upon hours LFG.
Even if we had instances that didn't rely on AoE tanking the way they now do- how would that possibly work with the LFG tool?
Come cataclysm though, do you really want to play a new instance the way you do now? 6 minute pull all DTK's etc? it'll be crap!
Cataclysm- difficulty will need to be ramped up to take into account of all these 264's and more than likely 277's by time it hits- that first quest green will have to absurdly OTT, other wise what will be the point.
Darkseid Apr 27th 2010 11:26AM
"Even if we had instances that didn't rely on AoE tanking the way they now do- how would that possibly work with the LFG tool?"
The same can be said for all the calls for a return to CC(crowd control). People want to see a return to the point where you HAD to have someone to fear/stun/sheep, just to make through the average mob group. But how would that work with the LFG tool? And I'm sure its a major problem holding up the GOD CAN WE PLEASE HAVE IT...LFR(looking for raid) tool that we all want so...so...SO bad.
Like the article said, people need to look to what might be coming. AOE tanking is a neccesity now, but who knows what Cataclysm has for tanking. CC was essential in previous expansions, absent in WtLK, but that doesn't mean it'll make a comeback in the next expansion.
This is kind of why I hate the "slow leak" method of approaching a expansion. Just let the expansion come, stop trying to figure out how your going to level, what professions you should pick up, what spec you should switch to, and all that before it even gets here. And truthfully, things like "realm first" and "world first" achievements are what drive people to get so crazy before an expansion. Because if they feel that if they don't know everything about the expansion before it gets here, then they're already behind the curve.
Just let the changes happen, then go from there.
Wellsee Apr 26th 2010 7:36PM
You, my brother, *can* get an amen!
Dreamstorm Apr 26th 2010 7:41PM
HALLELUYAH!