Call for submissions: The shape of guilds to come
by Lisa Poisso 
Apr 27th 2010 at 1:00PM
WoW.com is looking for submissions for a roundup article on how the changing face of raid progression will be affecting your guild. We're looking for thoughtful reflections, between 50 and 200 words, on the road that lies ahead for your particular guild or raiding group. Preferably, you're the GM or an officer of a guild or the leader of a regular raiding group (although we won't discount submissions from other types of players). No Chicken Little or QQ submissions, please; our comments runneth over with delicious tears already, thanks. As with all guest post call-outs, only the best submissions will be accepted.
Here's what to do: read up about the Seed program, sign up and then submit your article (you can't see the article page unless you have a Seed account). Unfortunately, we are currently only able to take submissions from individuals living in the United States; we hope to be able to accept international submissions in the future. We'll accept submissions for this call-out until 11:59 p.m. EST on Thursday, April 29 -- that's right, just a couple of days away. Good luck!
Filed under: WoW Insider Business, Guilds, Raiding, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
lawters Apr 27th 2010 1:04PM
Why are three of the dead chars naked! *shudder*
Tirrimas Apr 27th 2010 1:27PM
If you look closely, they're all wearing nearly nothing. Mostly cloaks and shirts, looks like. One's wearing a Lovely Black Dress.
Wallert Apr 27th 2010 1:20PM
My main worry about the new system is guilds with a mixed bag skill level.
Think about it, lets say you have a 25 man raid group with 10 exceptional players, 10 average and 5 really nice friendly people, who despite all their best intentions spend 50% of their raid time on the floor. Right now If they want the best loot 25 man is the best option, since it drops good quantities, however with the new system...What if say your 25 man can clear 5/6 normal mode or whatever, but when those 10 exceptional players are capable of clearing the whole place, on hard mode. They're likely to get a bit irritated for carrying the others, especially if they're getting worse loot as the result.
My guild at the moment has 25 mans which have just reached the lich king, and are being merrily carried off the platform by Valk'yr. Our 10 man group on the other hand is quite proud of our frostwyrms (http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=4602) and is on to hard mode LK. Right now our extra ten mans are a benefit to the guild, but I'm worried whats going to happen when its them or the 25 man...
Antti Apr 27th 2010 2:10PM
Then the system works, right now your 25 man is rewarding mediocrity. In the new system your 10 man can dominate and still get by as a group of skilled (10 or 25) should. The other 15 people, regardless of niceness, need to step up their game in order to convince the good players to play 25.
Claire Apr 27th 2010 2:50PM
If you think they're not already irritated, you're kidding yourself.
Atdt1991 Apr 27th 2010 1:28PM
Look, don't you think it's laughably premature to be prognosticating (yeah, I said it!) on the death of 25's?
My guild, for one, is excited that our raid leaders won't be burning themselves out on running endlessly. Our raid group is excited not to have to grind dailies due to the valor cap. Our occasional raiders are excited not to be hopelessly behind when they can't get in all the time.
Anything else is the wildest of speculation - we don't know how difficult the runs will be, how many there will be at one time, what heroic will be like, or how other updates in the patch (such as guild leveling/achievement and the new profession) may alter raiding.
It's too early.
Dave Apr 27th 2010 1:29PM
That's where Tolkien got the idea for Sauron.
hakmajik Apr 27th 2010 1:38PM
I've been chatting with our officers and we're uniformly of the opinion that this change is the asteroid to the dinosaurs (25man raids)- and that it will likely lend itself to more elitist 10man groups.
It may also lead to difficulties pugging - who wants to risk a raid id lockout with 'pug failers'?
We're a 25man guild that has killed the lk. We've been around since 2004.
We expect the impact to be extreme- and negative.
Atdt1991 Apr 27th 2010 1:43PM
You already risk a raid lockout. The only difference is that instead of having a 10-man ICC to "switch" to, with worse gear available than you are already wearing, you have a different 25-man raid, with similar gear you need.
Arbolamante Apr 27th 2010 4:21PM
So, take your alt. :)
Seriously, I'm thinking this will actually mean more raid groups, more opportunities to practice and get gear, which means (after a while) fewer complete fails pugs.
(cutaia) Apr 27th 2010 1:46PM
Out of curiosity, when might we see the frozen orb guide and class preview reaction pieces gracing the pages of wow.com?
hakmajik Apr 27th 2010 1:52PM
True- but losing 1, or helping your friend, is ok if you still have your primary 'run'.
We should also be honest that this change is 100% for blizzard's financial benefit (less development= lower cost; indirectly, compared to ToC, there may be lower server stress)- at least as it's been detailed. If blizzard opted to create parallel, different 10 and 25 raids, the loot parity wouldnt matter- and gamers would win.
However, managing a 25man guild is a bear (absolutely more work then a 10m)- and with that going the way of the dodo, that could be an upside. :/
Atdt1991 Apr 27th 2010 3:22PM
I definitely don't think these changes have anything to do with what's financially "better" for Blizzard. I think Ghostcrawler and the rest of the team would probably be pretty insulted if you told them that anyone was trying to get them to kill 25's because of the marginal server value of having people in smaller groups.
So you're saying that this Pugfail you're talking about is on a 10-man run instead of a 25-man run, so you'd still have your "main run"? I still think that there's no difference between that and having 2 25-man runs available.
Samuel Reese Apr 27th 2010 1:55PM
The whole merger of 10/25-man runs reminds me how currently our weekly raid quests are set up, and leads me to believe it will make things EASIER for groups.
Think about it: when the servers come back up on Tuesday, most of us will jump into 25-man groups to sprint for the door and take out the Boss of the Week as quickly as possible. As the week progresses closer to the end (the following Mondays), you're more likely to be able to form 10-man groups much faster.
Now that raids are proposed to have single lockouts and the fact you can change from 10 to 25 on a per-boss basis, you are more likely to have those groups that have a slightly less chance to defeat a boss in 25-man mode to have their "Elite 10" take him down so they can move on through the raid without everyone being stuck 75% of the way through.
*****
On-topic, from a guild standpoint we've always started the nights with 25-mans and then split off into 2 10-mans after a couple of hours to maximize our efficiency for items our group needs. The way I see it, in the later aspects of end-game, our casuals/alts can start the night 10-manning our way through the "farmable bosses" and then switch out to a full 25-man group for the "good loot" later on (think ToC Beasts vs Champions).
Yes there are people who love spending countless hours in the game, but these changes give people the ability not only to choose which raids they want to participate in, but also opens up the ability to spend time on alts...which I believe is the true intention of Blizzard's motives on "shrinking" the current raiding methods.
Issac Apr 27th 2010 2:14PM
you will be able to switch between regular and heroic mode, not 10 and 25.
Samuel Reese Apr 27th 2010 3:17PM
Incorrect. From the "clarifications":
Q: "Regarding how the raid dungeons will share the same lockout. This means that you cannot do separate instances in the same week. If you defeat an encounter in 10 player normal mode then you are locked to the 10 player mode of that dungeon for that week and can flip between 10 player normal and 10 player heroic on a per boss basis (assuming heroic is available). In this scenario you cannot do the 25 player version. Is this correct?"
A: "Correct. There should be no circumstances under which you kill a boss more than once per week on the same character. However, in the same way that you can decide on a per-boss basis whether to try normal vs. hard mode, we might allow you to change between 10 and 25 on a per-encounter basis for additional flexibility. If you started a raid in 25-player mode and then found that you couldn’t get everyone together later in the week, you might be able to downsize the next few bosses to 10-player."
Translation: They are considering allowing you to switch between 10 & 25-man on the fly just like they do with Normal/Heroic modes.
terraburn Apr 27th 2010 2:24PM
I tried to add a seed submission but the site won't let me do fuck all :(
Luci Apr 27th 2010 4:17PM
I have experienced some weirdness with the site, but it is still officially in Beta and kinda buggy. If you are having problems contact@seed.com - they are quite helpful.
Sithril Apr 27th 2010 2:43PM
That eyeball also has a really nasty gaze.
Try a gazing-game with it (or whatever its called in english) , betcha it will be a lot of fun!
Bazz Apr 27th 2010 2:51PM
I'd write a piece, too bad im Eurotrash.