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4-30-2010 @ 8:09AM
Hm, interesting idea about the spatial qualities of raids. I never thought of that before. Maybe that's why I never enjoyed ToC? Static scenery and a bland, small room do not an epic feel create.
4-30-2010 @ 8:35AM
This really hits the nail on the head. I've been saying this for the past week or so since Blizzard announced the Cataclysm dual raid lockout.The problem with Naxx25 was that it felt weird cause the place used to be a 40 man instance. EoE, Sarth, Ulduar, ToC, Icecrown, all seemed to "fit" right, at least when you are in a 25 man group. Which makes the encounter and entire raid so much more exciting.With a 10 man raid group, I really feel shoehorned in (with the exception of Kara and ZA). Like I don't belong here. Like we don't have enough people. Like, why is the dungeon so HUGE, and the bosses so HUGE, but only 10 people are able to kill them? We don't even fill up half the room.
4-30-2010 @ 8:46AM
I'll turn this around, since I'm primarily a 10m raider who started playing in late BC, so wasn't fully leveled until Wrath. I often feel that 25m raids are very cramped, since I'm used to a space filled with 10 people. I mean, Ulduar feels very big, and Naxx kinda, but ToC, EoE, and VoA all feel kinda overfilled when I do them in 25m, as well as some ICC encounters. In particular, Deathbringer Saurfang's ledge seems perfectly designed for 10 people, but far too small for 25.I guess it's a matter of perspective, in more ways than one.
4-30-2010 @ 9:40AM
Size is one of the reasons I love Ahn'Qiraj so much. When you are riding through the caverns (riding because they are so massive) you get the feeling you are undeniably small, that whatever lives in the caverns must be gigantic in order for them to be so massive. Bigger sized raids are epic in my mind, I struggle to see a problem with Ulduar being stupidly big for 10 man raids, there are titans who pass through it and gods! Not some ghosts stuck forever playing chess or acting out plays, Ulduar has a logical reason for being absurdly massive.
4-30-2010 @ 10:23AM
I think we should just adopt the wait-and-see philosophy here.Agree'd that 10 people taking down a formerly 40 man boss is a little wacky, but there have always been cases of less taking down something designed for more (hell look at classic hunter solo'ing or the DK that solo'd sarth!). True this is more of an off the radar kinda playstyle, but in the lore of the realm i think the news would spread about that badass that spanked the dragon all by himself.I have faith in Blizz for the raiding future. I think the ruby sanctum will be a good indicator for how things will go in cata. From the screenshots i've seen it seems populated with foliage, which i think is a good way to get around some of the spatial issues in raids, create a certain amount of ground clutter. In 10m more people will follow the strait path, whereas in 25m a few people walk on the other side of the tree's etc etc. now it seems spread out in 25m and condenced in 10m, hopefully making them even.As to fighting the boss themselves and asking how 10 people took down a former 40m boss? Well sheesh how did the lich die anyways? Shouldnt we have to destroy his Phylactery? or was that in a quest i missed. How is it Onyxia doesnt just fill the room with fire EVERY time instead of when a player tries to bug her out of her room? Why doesnt Kologarn wait untill your looking over the edge of the cliff to say peekaboo? etc etc. There is always going to be a wtf was this boss thinking kinda deal. and there is always gonna be a how are we killing him kinda deal. "Oh really? Yea the guy who raised an entire continent of undead. Yea he killed his father.... yea it took about 15 minutes. Well Tirion was there!.... No he didnt really do alot till the end. But he was there!!"
4-30-2010 @ 11:00AM
I agree with Thebitterfig.I am a 10 man raider for one reason: internet issues, anything more than 15 ppl and i couldnt even move, let alone pull my weight, so when i recently got my internet upgraded and walked into a 25 man raid(ulduar), and saw the number of ppl just clustered on each other for XT.....I was SHOCKED, it seemed like one mistake and half or more of the raid would be wiped out by a light bomb if someone wasnt paying attention, wich did happen btw, a rogue killed half the melee that way when XT was at 25%, and no one so much as even batted an eye, the rogue was even making "oops" jokes over vent, easy content yes, but killing 7 ppl because you were an idiot IS NOT funny. The point I am trying to make is: Being used to 10 man raids, 25 man raids are both crowded, and not really epic at all, taking down the all powerful XT002 Deconstructor of Ulduar with 10 highly skilled ppl seems MUCH more epic than taking him down with 25 ppl and basically overwhelming him with numbers.Just my honest opinion.
4-30-2010 @ 12:26PM
@Torr: I agree with you about everything except the rogue killing 7 people not being funny. That's FREAKIN HILARIOUS!!!!!You know why? Because it's a game, and mistakes happen and I'm here to enjoy myself. So I laugh at the stupid fails. A group that isn't capable of finishing a battle who beat their heads against the wall for 3 hours on 1 boss because they just don't have what it takes isn't funny. That's miserable, and I've been in those groups. No fun. The silly stupid mistakes are totally hilarious. You get back up, brush yourself off and down that bad boy. It's called having a sense of humor.
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