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4-30-2010 @ 8:24AM
On the one hand I see where you are coming from designed for 25 players in mind, but in my head that is where the boss "lives". I came to his house to kill him and he has as much space as he wants.
4-30-2010 @ 9:15AM
^ This.I've raided (casually, but raided nonetheless) since BC and I've gone to the vanilla raids with smaller groups, and I've never felt the encounters to be anything less than epic.Open space and grandiose settings, no matter how empty of actual players, have always felt epic to me.I do agree that some of the newer raid encounters are less epic, but for me, what truly makes them epic is the design of the encounter itself. A boss that just sits there until you attack, without saying nor doing anything except taking and dishing out damage, is not very epic.Herald Volazj always struck me as unnerving and dangerous due to the whispers before and during the fight. Ingvar the Plunderer's fight, even, is pretty epic - he's talking to an agent of Arthas before the fight, and gets transformed mid-way through.Scourgelord Tyrannus is my current favourite - I'm almost sorry to have to kill the guy. He's instantly present when you enter, and throughout the instance. Once you get to him, he feels like a true nemesis, since he's been dogging your steps up until the actual encounter.From what other people have said, too, it seems to me that the most memorable encounters just aren't the ones where it's pull-pew-pew-loot. Interesting mechanics, lore material and challenge are what make the fight epic, not the number of people.Kel'thuzad always felt incredibly epic to me due to the lead-up to the fight. Thinking that it's 10 people locked in his throne room, surrounded by scores of undead... that just felt claustrophobic and terrifying, which is perfect for that boss. And of course, having an animated pile of dragon bones as a guard dog was pretty awesome, too.
4-30-2010 @ 10:46AM
That was exactly was I was thinking when I read the "25 space too big for 10". Besides the design aspect of 40/25/10 mans (wich is completely valid), there's also the "lore" part. Ulduar is HUGE because it is a facility made by titans AND FOR TITANS.. they didn't think about 25 or 10 people going there to destroy it when they were building it. You can also apply this concept when you enter The Terrace of the Makers, or any of the open world titan places in Stormpeaks... can we say they were designed for 25 people and that's why it feels so huge when you're soloing or with other 4 people? I think not, those are titan constructions and they should be HUGE (not to mention that they are in the open world, and are not designed for a specific amount of people).Naxxramas was a raid for 40 people.. it is also a Necropolis, a city of the dead. I don't think a city should be small or big.. it has the size it has, and that's it. Maybe that's a perfect place for undead and they feel comfortable with that size, who knows.Karazhan was a tower built for a sole master and it's servants. This master wasn't too big anyway (just your regular demon boss), and the servants (besides bosses) were all of them of a "normal" size. The structure was built (as in, someone "in" the game built it) to acomodate this. And yes, you only needed 10 people to storm the place, 25 would have been a waste of resources... BTW, in the room of the final boss, 25 people could fit perfectly.ICC has its "normal" and Huge places. All in the same instance. In the 10 man version of the fight to save Valitria, Blizzard moved the four mages to the front and only two doors open instead off all 4. Diferent mechanics for the same place, but the room size stayed the same. Yeah, they virtually reduce the space of the fight by doing this, but it is a fact that this room is holding a dragon and it has to be big. It doesn't matter if 25 or 10 people come to rescue her. On the contrary, the throne room of The Lich King works for 25 people as well for 10 people... but The Lich King is just a regular person, maybe a bit taller than your average human, but it's not as big as a Demon or something. The room could have been smaller, but it is a throne room. It has to be big.So the point is, while the design factor is obviously very important since they have to make a place that fit a fight for a 25 or 10 man mechanics, they don't have to make a place that fit a specific number of players if the lore suggest that the place should be of a certain size. The place doesn't have to "feel right" for us, it wasn't made for the people that is going to destroy it, but for the creatures that "live" there. So, as long as the size of the place don't interfere with the mechanics of the fights, this souldn't be an issue.
4-30-2010 @ 1:56PM
A small correction... Kara was built for Medivh, who was a human. Prince Malchezzar was a demon, yes, but no one's quite sure how he ended up there.
4-30-2010 @ 3:10PM
OMG yes, you're totally right. Don't know how I let that one slip. Thanks!
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