Scattered Shots: Secrets and myths of the world's best hunters

Over at the Hunting Party Podcast, we've had the opportunity to interview some of the best hunters in the world. Hunters in the top guilds, like Ensidia and Paragon, and the hunter with more top DPS benchmarks than any other, Kripparrian. One of the interesting things about talking to them, both on and off air, is all the traits they have in common: they're calm, logical and of course, uncommonly good looking.
The way they talk about the game and hunter optimization is very similar, too. When you start asking them about hunter advice or how to get the last ounce of awesomesauce out of your hunter, they all say pretty much the same things. And it's somewhat different advice than you'll get from the forums or Elitist Jerks. Personally, I suspect if anyone knows what really matters when it comes to downing bosses, it's these guys. But in talking with hunters in the community, I notice there's a lot of misunderstanding about what goes on in a top raid guilds -- pervasive myths about top raiding teams that don't seem to go away.
Join me after the cut as we reveal the secrets of the world's best PvE hunters and find out what really matters, and at the same time take a look behind some of the myths as well.
Myth: they have way better gear
This is both true and untrue. Certainly the best raiding guilds out there had way, way better gear than you or me when they downed Marrowgar. But here's the thing: they had way worse gear when they downed the Lich King than you or I will have.
Those top guilds, those top hunters, progress through new raid content insanely quickly, often the first week or two that it's released. They don't stall out on a boss for weeks (at least not until heroic modes), which means they don't have weeks and weeks of drops from all the bosses that came before to gear them up.
Most casual raids these days need nothing at all from the first three bosses in ICC, for example. The loot is going to off-specs and being DE'd. But those top raids already moved on to heroic modes before everyone in the raid got their drops from the bosses that came before.
Of course the progression gating of ICC allowed them a couple of weeks of farming before they were allowed to move on, giving them a bit more of a gear edge than in past raids. But then they also did it all without the raid buff, and a flat 5% buff is worth a surprisingly lot of gear. And let us not forget the lessons of skill vs. gear.
Secret: there's not always a right answer
One of the striking things about talking with some of the greatest raiding hunters is that they take optimization so much less seriously than those a few tiers below them.
Don't get me wrong; these guys min/max. Across the board, they run the MM spec, usually stacking armor penetration rating. They want to get the most DPS they can. They use the spreadsheets to see how their gear and talents affect their theoretical target dummy DPS. And for most optimization questions, there is a right answer -- but not to all. Unlike some of the spreadsheet fanatics out there, they will refuse to say there is a "right" build down to the last talent point. In fact, they generally say that those last few talent points in any build could go just fine in a few different places -- likewise, that last glyph slot.
There seems to be an interesting curve in how strictly people view character customization. Newer hunters are very apt to try different things, look for advice and generally are willing to listen to any logical discussion. But then there's a disturbing trend once they start to get good, when they start topping the meters and doing pretty good progression. They suddenly become fiercely fanatical about exactly the right way to do everything. If you don't take exactly these talents, you're a noob. If you don't use exactly these glyphs, these gems, you're an idiot.
It reminds me of the Zen saying, "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few."
When you get to the far end of the skill curve to the best hunters, there are more possibilities once again. They are apt to say, "Eh, you could go Imp Steady Shot or Hunter's Mark, whichever. Glyph of Kill Shot, Glyph of the Hawk, they both have advantages and disadvantages."
Again, they optimize their character like no one else, and 95% of their talents, glyphs and gems will all look the same -- it'll be the combination that yields the best DPS. But they recognize more than anyone the way different boss mechanics affect these choices, and for some of them, there's isn't a right answer that's definitively better. But more on that in a bit.
Myth: they raid so much more than us casuals
One of the most pervasive myths about the top raiding guilds is that they raid so ridiculously more than we do. They raid five nights a week. They raid five hours a night or 8 hours a night. It is a full-time job.
A lot of good hardcore guilds do raid this much. But the very best guilds don't, because they don't need to. They don't hit brick walls the way our raids do, so they don't need as much time to get through bosses. Don't get me wrong; when new content is released, they go a little crazy. They skip school, they skip work. They go non-stop to get it down now, to get it down first, to get it all down in the first week.
But then they have it all cleared and on farm in a week or three. While you and I are still learning to target slimes or bite our teammates, they are down to raiding just a couple nights a week. And they clear all the content in that amount of time. The dirty secret to how they do this is simple: they're really, really good. Better than us. They do not make the same mistakes over and over. Can you say that for your raid?
Secret: boss-specific strategies are key
When asked what kind of advice they'd give hunters wanting to push their DPS to the next level, it's interesting that the best hunters out there don't talk about talents, or glyphs, or pets or any of that stuff. That is, after all, just the basics and it doesn't matter as much as most people think.
The best hunters out there almost always talk about boss-specific strategies. They say you have to really think about the individual mechanics of each boss fight and your toolbox of abilities, and see what fits best. Where should you be burning which cooldowns? Is there an opportunity to roll Serpent Stings on multiple targets? What positioning do you want to ensure the least movement? When you have to move, how will you move as efficiently as possible? Where will go you, where will you pause, where will you stop?
The feeling you get from talking to these top hunters is that talents and glyphs and gear and rotations are all basically a given. Anyone can spend a few hours online at the spreadsheets and nail those down to something close enough to optimal. The difference, the variable, is the boss fights themselves, how you approach them and how you optimize your strategies to them. It is there that you find the line between success and failure, the top of the meters and the bottom.
Secret: it ain't about the DPS
The content these guys do typically requires great DPS, but when you talk to hunters in number one guilds, they aren't really focused on DPS that much. Their position on the meters isn't a big concern to them. After all, it's about killing bosses, something that can easily get lost in all our hunter optimization discussions. Who cares what your DPS is if all you do is wipe? Stepping out of a void zone instantly rather than waiting for that Steady Shot to finish casting is more important than DPS to them -- because that's more likely to get the boss down.
On fights with special mechanics, these guys are happy to abandon their pure DPS role -- in fact some of them have said they prefer it. Whether it's shooting down orbs on Anub'arak or bouncing up orbs on the Blood Prince Council, they enjoy having a critical role in the fight. After all, there are tons of DPSers all contributing damage and every single class can do it. But every now and then, there's a fight where hunters really have a chance to shine.
Who cares if it gimps our DPS in the process? When the fate of the raid depends on some particular execution -- be it kiting or target-swapping and burning -- that fate can rest comfortably on hunter shoulders.
Listen for yourself
You can hear some of these world best hunters talk about raiding and their advice in their own words in the following Hunting Party Podcasts:
- Kruf from Paragon (world-first heroic Lich King kill, among many others)
- Munken from Ensidia (many world firsts)
- Kripparrian (most top DPS hunter benchmarks)
You want to be a hunter, eh? You start with science, then you add some Dwarven Stout, and round it off some elf bashing. The end result is massive DPS. Scattered Shots is the WoW.com column dedicated to helping you learn everything it takes to be a hunter. See the Scattered Shots Resource Guide for a full listing of vital and entertaining hunter guides, including how to improve your heroic DPS, understand the impact of skill vs. gear, get started with Beast Mastery 101 and Marksman 101 and even solo bosses with some extreme soloing.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Valent1ne May 4th 2010 1:33AM
I certainly agree with the part about some hunters preferring roles that aren't straight-up DPS. I much prefer these roles myself because they give me a compelling reason not to focus completely on DPS. Taking on a dynamic and reactive role is also much more fun than just settling into your rotation and avoiding the homicidal floor.
Nex May 24th 2010 3:49PM
PVE? who cares?
all u need to do is bind 5 abilities (2 if u r arcane mage) and learn the sequence in which u need to press those buttons (u don't need the sequence if u r a pala).
tank will tank
healers will heal
move out of fire, black circles and green goo and u'll be awesome.
the loot u need will eventually drop and your dps (pathetic measurement) will increase.
Knob May 3rd 2010 4:16PM
"Who cares what your DPS is if all you do is wipe?"
If only this was drilled into the head of every DPSer out there.
bldavis59 May 3rd 2010 5:13PM
as a raiding hunter, a raiding tank, and my guilds unofficail Raid Leader, i agree whole-heartedly
when i play my hunter, sure its nice to be up there on the charts, but if i dont kill the boss whats the point?
id rather be near the bottom of the dps piule and get my gear/emblems then be at the top and having to pay for repair bills cuase we wiped...again.
Tim May 3rd 2010 4:27PM
This.
After a wipe or three I typically ask on vent "Is there an enrage timer? And if so how close are we?" I would rather die from an enrage than a typical wipe. Maybe it is just because I am the tank and hitting the enrage timer is clearly the DPS's fault (with a few exceptions). Take a breath and fight smarter, not harder.
Lekal May 4th 2010 1:59AM
Seconded.
But the point needs to be made to raid leaders too- as a DPSer, I don't want to be afraid that I'm going to get yelled at for comparatively low DPS when I'm doing my job dispelling, interrupting, or getting out of the crap on the floor. When the RL is training us to focus on the damage meter, that's what we're going to do.
I admit 'top of the charts' is a bad mindset for a DPS player to have. But I don't hold to the belief that its entirely DPS players' fault that we tend to have that mindset.
theRaptor May 4th 2010 6:08AM
Lekal your raid leader is, as they say, "a scrub".
Unless you are running hard modes any DPS class can faceroll and beat the enrage timers. If you are running the hard modes than for the majority of fights the important thing is staying alive. A DPS race is such a trivial raid mechanic that Blizzard normally only chuck in one per raid.
A good raider focuses on situational awareness and movement, and fast target switching. Those are the key skills not being able to hit 1,2,3,4 in a row.
Dead rogues do no damage.
Sky May 3rd 2010 4:17PM
Munken is God
Cerrena May 3rd 2010 5:13PM
Outstanding article! I've heard some of those interviews already but it may be worth listening again.
Ben May 3rd 2010 4:21PM
"The content these guys do typically requires great DPS, but when you talk to hunters in number one guilds, they aren't really focused on DPS that much. "
This. A million times this. In 25 Rotface, healers kept getting agro from the big oozes because dps kept standing in the slime spray, requiring a lot of healing. After about 4 wipes from this, and the RL saying over and over, "you need to move immediately when he starts casting", I added "would you rather be at the top of the charts on a wipe, or middle of the charts on a success?" We got him down a few tries later, and I'd like to think my comment helped change people's attitudes correctly.
nieboh May 3rd 2010 6:48PM
"would you rather be at the top of the charts on a wipe, or middle of the charts on a success?"
Unfortunately, while they may grunt and say they agree with you, far too many are thinking "I'd rather be top of the charts on a sucess and that's only going to happen if I'm top of the charts on wipe after wipe as well."
I like damage meters as a gauge of performance, but it's only one. Since I discovered (maybe noobishly late) that feint drops aoe damage by 50% I'm constantly working them into my rotation trying to time them to whiteouts and assorted festering green haze pulses and the like. The damage taken chart is my new favorite and my new holy grail. Sure I'm near the top on dps, but how close am I to the bottom on damage taken? That's where I really want to be.
Aeryli May 4th 2010 1:03PM
This is too true. One of my most defining moments of WotLK was last week when the OT died on Rotface and I stepped back and ranged tanked the oozes for the last 50% of the fight. My DPS was awful but at the end of the fight I felt like my role actually mattered more than just putting up big numbers. I hope Cataclysm brings some of these things back for hunters because it is undoubtedly one of the most fun and exciting things Hunters can do and they can do it well.
thumper242 May 3rd 2010 5:13PM
It is amazing how well nearly all of this applies to every dps class.
clundgren May 3rd 2010 4:28PM
Great article. I would *love* to see one like this for every class.
Neirin May 3rd 2010 4:37PM
Well, the best of the best of any given class are likely to say about the same thing. I don't even play a hunter, but if you changed "serpent sting" to "moonfire" and "steady shot" to "starfire" this would be about boomkins.
Grovinofdarkhour May 3rd 2010 4:29PM
Frostheim, Kruf, Munken and Kripparrian, weekly round table podcast that I can listen to on my iPod on the train home from work every Friday before our raid.
I know, I know. The logistics are impossible. Just lemme dream.
busuan May 3rd 2010 5:24PM
I miss the days when trap dancing was important.
Neirin May 3rd 2010 4:34PM
I particularly like the comment about abandoning your dps role for special mechanics. I love being the abom for PP because there is literally only 1 person doing my job: me.
Elleyna May 3rd 2010 5:22PM
I absolutely love how often you're posting artciles Frostheim. I actually went and listened to one of the podcasts, definitely good stuff.
iceveiled May 3rd 2010 5:35PM
You forgot the most important thing: They're european.
:p